Read Between the Lines

Kingarthurhk · 02-21-2012, 08:24

Rick Santorum Satan is Systematically Destroying America - YouTube

Santorum Slams Obama's Agenda Driven by a "Phony Theology . . . Not a Theology Based on the Bible" - YouTube

Santorum Right to Privacy - YouTube

"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross" - Sinclair Lewis

Vic Hays · 02-21-2012, 11:41

I thought Rick was right on when he was talking about satan systematically destroying America. He was right on about a Utopian fantasy that he called a false theology.

When he began to attack the right to privacy as selfish, I was very taken aback. He might as well have said the right to individual liberty is selfish. I personally do not want to be part of a collective.

Kingarthurhk · 02-21-2012, 11:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vic Hays

I thought Rick was right on when he was talking about satan systematically destroying America. He was right on about a Utopian fantasy that he called a false theology.

When he began to attack the right to privacy as selfish, I was very taken aback. He might as well have said the right to individual liberty is selfish. I personally do not want to be part of a collective.

I think you missed the subtle statement about Protestanism in the first video. That is what I meant by you need to "read between the lines". I think that ties into his collectivist thought process.

I am not a fan of the Huffpost by any means. But they caught it:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1286471.html

Vic Hays · 02-21-2012, 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk

I think you missed the subtle statement about Protestanism in the first video. That is what I meant by you need to "read between the lines". I think that ties into his collectivist thought process.

I am not a fan of the Huffpost by any means. But they caught it:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1286471.html

They caught it, but Santorum was talking about mainline Protestantism which I agree has degenerated to a large degree. The spirit of antichrist comes in the form of the dragon, the beast and the false prophet. Mainline Protestantism has by and large begun preaching a false gospel. The call to come out of Babylon is the call for those sincere people of God to come out of the Babyloish confusion of religion before it is too late.

Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

Kingarthurhk · 02-21-2012, 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vic Hays

They caught it, but Santorum was talking about mainline Protestantism which I agree has degenerated to a large degree. The spirit of antichrist comes in the form of the dragon, the beast and the false prophet. Mainline Protestantism has by and large begun preaching a false gospel. The call to come out of Babylon is the call for those sincere people of God to come out of the Babyloish confusion of religion before it is too late.

Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

As you know, he would have a completely different perspective on that than you or i would.

muscogee · 02-21-2012, 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk

m/watch?v=36mkIag1drw"] "When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross" - Sinclair Lewis

Absolutely. So far he is the fourth Republican to imply we should vote for him because God is on his side.

Vic Hays · 02-21-2012, 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk

As you know, he would have a completely different perspective on that than you or i would.

I realize that as he said, individual privacy is not for the good of the society. That kind of talk indicates that he has been well schooled in the philosophy that our personal rights must be given up for the good of the rest of society. Security in place of liberty. We already lost our fifth amendment rights just a couple of weeks ago with a presidential executive order. It looks to me that Santorum is not the conservative he is claiming to be.

The Mark of the Beast will come down the same path. It will be promoted for the good of society. A day of rest for the good of families and the general good of society. Those who oppose the false sabbath legislation as infringing on their Constitutional rights will be accused of being anti-family.

IhRedrider · 02-22-2012, 18:23

My individual rights are for the common good?

A religious communist, will those who wish to steal our rights and freedoms halt at nothing or not align themselves with anyone just to trample the Constitution and the Country?

Vic Hays · 02-22-2012, 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by IhRedrider

My individual rights are for the common good?

A religious communist, will those who wish to steal our rights and freedoms halt at nothing or not align themselves with anyone just to trample the Constitution and the Country?

There never has been a country like the USA that valued the rightd of the individual. Individual rights are for the common good. Without them the USA becomes just another socialist country.

The founding fathers came from the oppression of Europe with the divine right of kings and the state church. They wanted religious and civil liberty. Our rights guaranteed by the Constitution are being repudiated one by one.

IhRedrider · 02-23-2012, 20:20

Individual rights are for the good of the individual, if all the individuals' rights are protected and preserved, then all the rights , of the society of individuals, are protected and preserved. In this situation "the common good" is preserved. This all starts with the individuals rights for the good of the individual, all individuals.
When you present the case the oppression of Europe with the divine right of kings and the state church. You show the problem of individual rights for a select group of individuals at the expense of all the other individuals. This has been presented down through time as the way to preserve the "common good". This is really the lie they (Kings Elite, and churches) preserve their control and exploitation of the rest of society. When you start talking about "the common good" over individual rights, you are already in a socialist country.
You surely must agree that God has made each of us sovereign over ourselves with the desire that we turn our sovereignty over to him and no one else.

muscogee · 02-23-2012, 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by IhRedrider

My individual rights are for the common good?

A religious communist, will those who wish to steal our rights and freedoms halt at nothing or not align themselves with anyone just to trample the Constitution and the Country?

Quote:

Acts 4:32-37

32And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

33And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.

34Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,

35And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

36And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus,

37Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

Quote:

Acts 5

1But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,

2And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

3But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

4Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

5And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.

6And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.

7And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.

8And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.

9Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.

10Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.

11And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things.

Quote:

From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs.
Karl Marx

Maybe not religious Communism, but definitely religious Marxism.

Vic Hays · 02-23-2012, 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by IhRedrider

Individual rights are for the good of the individual, if all the individuals' rights are protected and preserved, then all the rights , of the society of individuals, are protected and preserved. In this situation "the common good" is preserved. This all starts with the individuals rights for the good of the individual, all individuals.
When you present the case the oppression of Europe with the divine right of kings and the state church. You show the problem of individual rights for a select group of individuals at the expense of all the other individuals. This has been presented down through time as the way to preserve the "common good". This is really the lie they (Kings Elite, and churches) preserve their control and exploitation of the rest of society. When you start talking about "the common good" over individual rights, you are already in a socialist country.
You surely must agree that God has made each of us sovereign over ourselves with the desire that we turn our sovereignty over to him and no one else.

Perhaps that relates to the fact that God made man in His image. It imparts a nobility to man that is not shared by the creatures that were not created in God's image. So a man is not to be owned by the state.

IhRedrider · 02-24-2012, 09:42

Quote:

Maybe not religious Communism, but definitely religious Marxism.

I am very far from an expert on Communism or Marxism. However it was my impression that in Communism and Marxism, it was those that are in powers responsibility to TAKE from others and distribute as THEY see fit. What God advocates is that those of you who have, GIVE willingly to those who do not. That is a HUGE difference. It boils down to Welfare (forced thievery, communism/marxism) or Charity (willing gifts, God's plan).

I personally choose to engage in charity, I however would never advocate forcing anyone to submit to welfare (Robin Hood syndrome, Occupy where-ever).

In Acts, Ananias and Sapphira were not stuck dead for not giving. They were struck dead for deceiving.

Quote:

So a man is not to be owned by the state.

Absolutely agree. And if we take that and look at it further, the State is made up of men, therefore; No man should be FORCED to submit to another man. If he chooses to submit to another man, that is his business.

Schabesbert · 02-24-2012, 10:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vic Hays

When he began to attack the right to privacy as selfish, I was very taken aback. He might as well have said the right to individual liberty is selfish.

He didn't. I could as easily say that, by your above statement, you are asserting that we have no obligation to uphold our constitution or freedoms which are collectively given to the states.

You might want to give the preamble to the Constitution a gander.

Schabesbert · 02-24-2012, 10:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk

"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross" - Sinclair Lewis

Does that justify, in your mind, distrusting anyone who promotes America and Christianity?

Why the special pleading? (I know why. Because he's Catholic, and you absolutely HATE the Church that Jesus started.)

muscogee · 02-24-2012, 11:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by IhRedrider

I am very far from an expert on Communism or Marxism. However it was my impression that in Communism and Marxism, it was those that are in powers responsibility to TAKE from others and distribute as THEY see fit. What God advocates is that those of you who have, GIVE willingly to those who do not. That is a HUGE difference. It boils down to Welfare (forced thievery, communism/marxism) or Charity (willing gifts, God's plan).

I personally choose to engage in charity, I however would never advocate forcing anyone to submit to welfare (Robin Hood syndrome, Occupy where-ever).

In Acts, Ananias and Sapphira were not stuck dead for not giving. They were struck dead for deceiving.

For the most part, you're correct. Under communism, as seen by Marx, people would evolve both socially and politically so that no one was in control of anything. People just cooperated and took care of each other because that's what they did. That, of course, is unworkable and contrary to human nature. Someone has to be in charge. In Soviet Communism, that's the person who's gang wins the most gang fights.

In Acts, Jesus was in charge. The people of the original Church did what they did because Jesus expected them to, but the behaviors were the same as those envisioned by Marx. Everyone took care of each other and if people got out of line, God took care of it.

Soviet communism, especially under Stalin, combined Marx with Social Darwinism. Social Darwinism held that if there was enough pressure on the social and political environment, people would adapt to the situation or die out. Eventually, everyone would be of one mind. Stalin tried to force the situation by eliminating everyone who didn't readily adapt. Those were people who did not blindly accept his unrealistic demands. As he gained more power, his demands became even more extreme. If Germany hadn't invaded the Soviet Union and the U.S. hadn't sent aid to Stalin (good old Joe) it may have collapsed or dissolved into civil war. But then we would have had the Nazis to deal with. There were no good answers to that problem.

muscogee · 02-24-2012, 11:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schabesbert

Why the special pleading? (I know why. Because he's Catholic, and you absolutely HATE the Church that Jesus started.)

That's not it. They still fear the church that tried to wipe them out for several centuries.

Vic Hays · 02-24-2012, 11:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schabesbert

Does that justify, in your mind, distrusting anyone who promotes America and Christianity?

Why the special pleading? (I know why. Because he's Catholic, and you absolutely HATE the Church that Jesus started.)

Trusting just anyone without critically examining what their sentiments and agenda are is just plain foolish. God has given us intelligence and reason and discernment to look for truth.

I really appreciate what John Kennedy did and tried to do for the USA. I cant speak for King, but I don't hate. When an organization has a long history of force, oppression, and deceit why turn off all reason and trust them? If anyone has shown a historical pattern of hate it is the Catholic sect.

Jesus started the Christian Church. Paul warned of the wolves that would shortly come in. It is a warning not to trust even Christians without examination.

Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

steveksux · 02-24-2012, 11:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by muscogee

Absolutely. So far he is the fourth Republican to imply we should vote for him because God is on his side.

Talking about this primary season, or elections in general? Don't forget Bush Jr...

Randy

**Javelin** · 02-24-2012, 12:00

Republicans have sure been raising some strange brew for sure.

You really can't trust any of them to do anything but screw over America.

steveksux · 02-24-2012, 12:12

Quote:

Rick Santorum In 2008: Mainstream Protestantism Fell Out Of 'World Of Christianity'

Jambog.

Someone posted this already, I think it was back in 1521...
http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-en...in-luther.html

Might have been posted on a door, not sure the interwebz were available then...

Randy

muscogee · 02-24-2012, 12:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveksux

Talking about this primary season, or elections in general? Don't forget Bush Jr...

Randy

I was talking about the primaries, but you're right. This goes back farther.

steveksux · 02-24-2012, 12:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by muscogee

I was talking about the primaries, but you're right. This goes back farther.

If Jesus was really omnipotent, he'd get a do-over for the Shrub endorsement..

we'd have never known about it, would have been erased from our collective consciousness...

Or maybe He would just say "Hey, I TOLD him to run, but I was kidding. I didn't think he'd take it seriously and sure didn't think you guys would VOTE for him..."

Randy

Schabesbert · 02-24-2012, 13:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by muscogee

That's not it. They still fear the church that tried to wipe them out for several centuries.

Let's not get into that old falsehood.
You're referring to the "Black Legends." There's a reason they're called LEGENDS. They're untrue, for the most part.

Schabesbert · 02-24-2012, 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vic Hays

Trusting just anyone without critically examining what their sentiments and agenda are is just plain foolish. God has given us intelligence and reason and discernment to look for truth.

That's true. And some of us use that more than others.
But that has nothing to do with either the OP or my statement.

People should examine things rationally and not rely on prejudice and distorted outlooks to do their thinking for them.

Quote:

I really appreciate what John Kennedy did and tried to do for the USA. I cant speak for King, but I don't hate. When an organization has a long history of force, oppression, and deceit why turn off all reason and trust them? If anyone has shown a historical pattern of hate it is the Catholic sect.

That's not exactly true. But, since you are apparently set on poisioning your mind with ONLY the writings of people who hate the Church that Christ founded, you are immune from the facts.

Quote:

Jesus started the Christian Church. Paul warned of the wolves that would shortly come in. It is a warning not to trust even Christians without examination.

And how, exactly, did he tell us to distinguish between the wolves and the shepherds?

Not by waiting 1800 years for a false prophetess to lead us, that's for sure.

No, he told us to follow the Church.
1Ti 3:15 if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.

Those false shepherds would be exposed by the Church, and they were. READ, please read, please, please, the writings of the Early Church.