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Old 02-26-2012, 02:53   #1
dwalker84
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Absolutely awful experience with Tucson Police tonight..

So, out of the few times I've been pulled over carrying - I have always been treated very respectfully, infact, most of the times my CCW positively effected the stop, the majority of the times resulting with no ticket, and a friendly conversation.... Well tonight was different.

First off, my registration was expired; I deserved the ticket I received completely. I shouldn't have put off going to get my emissions done, but with my hectic work schedule and newborn I procrastinated. Either way, I deserved to be pulled over and ticketed, period.

That said...

My fiance and I we're out on our date night that we get maybe once every month. Her mother is kind enough to take the kids for us for free so we can atleast get 2-3 hours alone. We drove up to Gates pass to watch the city lights, then proceeded to town to get some coffee before heading back to the house.

I should have known better than to drive into downtown on a Saturday, oh well.

A Motorcycle officer got behind me and immediately threw on his lights. I pulled over and stopped within 10 seconds, and never removed my hands from the wheel. He approaches, says "Why were you and the passenger moving around and fidgeting???" My hands never left the wheel from the time he pulled behind me, and my Fiance had her hands in her lap the entire time. I said "We never moved officer?" I found this odd, his demeanor was aggressive from the get-go. "License and Registration." and the first thing out of my mouth is "Officer, just so you're aware I'm carrying a concealed weapon, here's my CCW permit." as I handed him my ID and CCW. He asked me where it was, and I said 1:00 Oclock, appendix carry. He looked at me like "Huh?" but I certainly wasn't going to point :p - I did this as a courtesy, as I do every time - so the officer isn't surprised. In AZ we have constitutional carry so I don't need a permit, nor did I need to make him aware of it out of respect. He gets on the radio and says something along the lines of "Yeah hes got a gun..."

Suddenly another officer pops up on the right side of the car which startled my fiance.


The first officer immediately got more aggravated and nervous, as if presenting my ccw was a threat. As I was looking through my paperwork for my insurance he says "Okay!! Alright, get out of the car, right now!!" I never once made any movements that would have been construed as going for my gun, but this guy was on the aggressive from the start.

I got out of the car, with my hands at chest level, put my hands on the roof, spread my legs. He frisked around my waist and unholstered my G17. He sees that I'm carrying a knife and says "Oh look! This guy is carrying TWO KNIVES!" In a tone like how DARE he carry two knives! How dare he carry a firearm! I have a SD knife, and a work knife that I use to open boxes on the job. I'm glad he didn't notice the extra magazines on my waste, for as much concern he had that I was going to injure him, he did an awful job frisking me, actually he never frisked me.. at all.

As I'm looking across the car, the other officer looks me in the eyes, with this kind of "I'm sorry." look and body language. He hadn't said anything the entire time - but seemed calm and collected the whole time.

The first officer told me to get back into the car - The 2nd officer started talking to us about what we should expect as far as court and the registration - he was VERY polite and respectful. Infact, I think if he wasn't there - this interaction would have been 20X worse. I wish I had the chance to thank him for treating me like a citizen and not a criminal.

So after the first officer ran my info, he comes back and asks to get in my trunk. At this point I'm livid, and humiliated, and start to think that hes going to try and start searching my car. I ask "Okay, wait, why are you going to search my car??" The 2nd officer explains that hes going to place my weapons in the trunk until they leave. Fine, I pop it. I get out, and goto the trunk. The first officer starts DIGGING through my trunk, looking under my baby stroller, shining his light around, SEARCHING! After about 40 seconds of searching and digging, He pulls out a camo hat from the service, puts my mag, knives, etc. Shows me my gun, that it's clear, and places it in the trunk and shuts it.

I get back in the car, he hands me the ticket, and I asked if his badge number was on the citation, he says yes and leaves.

I don't know who the second officer was, but I thank god he was there. I couldn't imagine how bad this stop would have been if he wasn't. I desperately wish I could have extended a thank you. I am so unbelievably upset right now - This whole interaction was absolutely unnecessary - I gave him no reason to act in this way and I'm so disappointed. I respect law enforcement, infact I look up to them - I have lost a great deal of trust of the police tonight. I would have thought living in one of the most gun friendly states in the US that this wouldn't happen. Bummer.



[Moderator Note - 02-26-2012 at 15:35: Please read post #48 before posting in this thread.]

Last edited by RussP; 02-27-2012 at 05:40..
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Old 02-26-2012, 03:06   #2
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Sorry for your unfortunate experience. Hopefully next month when you get to go out with your wife you wont have any reason for some cop having a bad day to harass you.

Some cops are d1cks and should be at a desk investigating instead of on the street carrying a gun. We hold them to a high standard but I guess we should not.....


**to all those nice cops out there whom hold themselves to a higher standard, thank you. Keep on keepin on**

Last edited by id1otbox; 02-26-2012 at 03:08..
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Old 02-26-2012, 03:33   #3
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Seems like he was on edge and a little pissed at something that night. Just one of those random bad days for him I guess. He didn't need to be an ass to you though.

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Old 02-26-2012, 03:53   #4
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IMO, a CCW'er's interaction with a cop depends on a couple of factors - the cop's personal views on CCW for non LEO's and the cop's personal views on gun ownership in general. I wouldn't be surprised if the cop in your situation didn't think anyone except cops should be allowed to carry or own guns.

I had a negative (non CCW) experience with a cop.
I wanted to test fire my Uzi & it was on the "Assault Weapons" list, so I phoned the range before driving there to verify that I would be allowed to shoot it. (I previously was not permitted to shoot it at another range after being told, "We don't allow assault weapons here.") I explained that it is semi auto & legally registered. The range employee said I could fire it if I showed them my registration from the Dept. of Justice. When I walked up to the counter to check in, the range employee was chatting with a uniformed police officer. The range employee said to me, "Are you the one with the Uzi?" I said, "Yes." I smiled politely at the cop & he gave me the nastiest, meanest, most hateful look I've ever seen on anyone. And he never stopped glaring at me while I filled out & signed the form, either. He also demanded to see my registration form, even after the range employee already checked it & it was quite obvious he was very disappointed that it was in order. What a shame.....I was going to let him try a 32-rd. mag on me.
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Old 02-26-2012, 04:16   #5
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Maybe it was a desk jockey, who got out on patrol for once.

And he's ready to rid the world of its ills.

was the last name Fife?
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Old 02-26-2012, 07:07   #6
Beretta92guy
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I know one thing, cops better get used to law-abiding citizens carrying lawfully concealed weapons....

our numbers are growing at a very fast rate.....

and that really pisses me off what the OP was describing.....here is a citizen with a VALID ccw permit and is treated like some gumbo-head with a gun and a car full of weed :(((
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Old 02-26-2012, 07:35   #7
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File a complaint with the Tucson Police-especially over the fact that he searched your trunk without legal consent.
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Old 02-26-2012, 07:44   #8
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I am surprised they let you drive your car home, especially with the first officer's attitude. Around me, you would have had to arrange for a tow truck. Police rarely ever let anyone drive home with expired vehicle registration.
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Old 02-26-2012, 07:45   #9
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You weren't legit (registration), you got pulled over. Cops did their job (I love how one talked to you with his eyes). Are you clear on how you could avoid this in the future?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwalker84 View Post
So, out of the few times I've been pulled over carrying - I have always been treated very respectfully, infact, most of the times my CCW positively effected the stop, the majority of the times resulting with no ticket, and a friendly conversation.... Well tonight was different.

First off, my registration was expired; I deserved the ticket I received completely. I shouldn't have put off going to get my emissions done, but with my hectic work schedule and newborn I procrastinated. Either way, I deserved to be pulled over and ticketed, period.

That said...

My fiance and I we're out on our date night that we get maybe once every month. Her mother is kind enough to take the kids for us for free so we can atleast get 2-3 hours alone. We drove up to Gates pass to watch the city lights, then proceeded to town to get some coffee before heading back to the house.

I should have known better than to drive into downtown on a Saturday, oh well.

A Motorcycle officer got behind me and immediately threw on his lights. I pulled over and stopped within 10 seconds, and never removed my hands from the wheel. He approaches, says "Why were you and the passenger moving around and fidgeting???" My hands never left the wheel from the time he pulled behind me, and my Fiance had her hands in her lap the entire time. I said "We never moved officer?" I found this odd, his demeanor was aggressive from the get-go. "License and Registration." and the first thing out of my mouth is "Officer, just so you're aware I'm carrying a concealed weapon, here's my CCW permit." as I handed him my ID and CCW. He asked me where it was, and I said 1:00 Oclock, appendix carry. He looked at me like "Huh?" but I certainly wasn't going to point :p - I did this as a courtesy, as I do every time - so the officer isn't surprised. In AZ we have constitutional carry so I don't need a permit, nor did I need to make him aware of it out of respect. He gets on the radio and says something along the lines of "Yeah hes got a gun..."

Suddenly another officer pops up on the right side of the car which startled my fiance.


The first officer immediately got more aggravated and nervous, as if presenting my ccw was a threat. As I was looking through my paperwork for my insurance he says "Okay!! Alright, get out of the car, right now!!" I never once made any movements that would have been construed as going for my gun, but this guy was on the aggressive from the start.

I got out of the car, with my hands at chest level, put my hands on the roof, spread my legs. He frisked around my waist and unholstered my G17. He sees that I'm carrying a knife and says "Oh look! This guy is carrying TWO KNIVES!" In a tone like how DARE he carry two knives! How dare he carry a firearm! I have a SD knife, and a work knife that I use to open boxes on the job. I'm glad he didn't notice the extra magazines on my waste, for as much concern he had that I was going to injure him, he did an awful job frisking me, actually he never frisked me.. at all.

As I'm looking across the car, the other officer looks me in the eyes, with this kind of "I'm sorry." look and body language. He hadn't said anything the entire time - but seemed calm and collected the whole time.

The first officer told me to get back into the car - The 2nd officer started talking to us about what we should expect as far as court and the registration - he was VERY polite and respectful. Infact, I think if he wasn't there - this interaction would have been 20X worse. I wish I had the chance to thank him for treating me like a citizen and not a criminal.

So after the first officer ran my info, he comes back and asks to get in my trunk. At this point I'm livid, and humiliated, and start to think that hes going to try and start searching my car. I ask "Okay, wait, why are you going to search my car??" The 2nd officer explains that hes going to place my weapons in the trunk until they leave. Fine, I pop it. I get out, and goto the trunk. The first officer starts DIGGING through my trunk, looking under my baby stroller, shining his light around, SEARCHING! After about 40 seconds of searching and digging, He pulls out a camo hat from the service, puts my mag, knives, etc. Shows me my gun, that it's clear, and places it in the trunk and shuts it.

I get back in the car, he hands me the ticket, and I asked if his badge number was on the citation, he says yes and leaves.

I don't know who the second officer was, but I thank god he was there. I couldn't imagine how bad this stop would have been if he wasn't. I desperately wish I could have extended a thank you. I am so unbelievably upset right now - This whole interaction was absolutely unnecessary - I gave him no reason to act in this way and I'm so disappointed. I respect law enforcement, infact I look up to them - I have lost a great deal of trust of the police tonight. I would have thought living in one of the most gun friendly states in the US that this wouldn't happen. Bummer.

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Old 02-26-2012, 08:02   #10
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Around here, one department has a lot of 6 hours off between end of one shift and start of next. It's not uncommon for officers to pull triples on this schedule.

Be thankful that you weren't in jail from a trumped-up charge so the cop could get some down time to fill out paperwork.


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Old 02-26-2012, 08:27   #11
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Lunch money victim, thinks a badge will replace a soft spine leftover from high school. Here is my question were is the the outrage over bullying went its a police officer. Its a shame because law enforcement is truly one of the admirable jobs to accept. Pay sucks and the crap they deal with is ridiculous. Sadly you have that 10% that have to compensate for something. Those are probably the ones who's Dad or Uncle got them the job. Rant done.
Glad its over. Hope you got the car registered or you are in for a long week.
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Old 02-26-2012, 09:27   #12
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Eric originally posted this in Cop Talk November 29, 2006. It applies to every GT forum, not just Cop Talk. Please abide by his policy.
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Folks, I did not create this forum to give people a place to ***** about cops, or to question the morality or legality of their practices. You might have a burning need to do so, but this is not the place for it.

I created this forum as a place for cops to talk shop and for non-cops to be able to interact with cops and hopefully create some common ground. If you do not like cops, or you are pissed because you got a ticket, or you want to know how to beat the ticket, or you don't like no-knock warrants or DUI checkpoints, do not post about it here. Period. I am sick to death of all of the bickering and all of the problems a few knuckleheads here (On both sides of the fence) keep causing. I want the problems to stop.

If you want to discuss legal/ethical issues of police practices or policies, do it in GT's Civil Liberties forum. That is what it was created for. From now on, any such discussion here will be closed or moved to that forum. There are a handful of people here who are obsessed with the topic and they are screwing things up here for everyone else.

Once again and for the record, I and my site are big fans of LEO's and we support them. You do not have to like them yourself, but you do have to treat them respectfully if you want to post on my site. On the other hand, the problems here are not one-sided. I expect EVERYONE to comport themselves in a considerate, respectful manner, if they wish to continue participating here. There is no excuse for bad behavior and many of you are in a job that has certainly taught you better.

This forum has been one of the most problematic on GT, but I still feel it can be an asset if the people that use it will help it live up to its potential. Eric
dwalker84, congrats on the newborn.

Just curious, how far past registration renewal were you? Yeah, emission tests are a pain.

I'd like to fill in what's to me a missing bit of information.
You said,
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwalker84 View Post
My hands never left the wheel from the time he pulled behind me, and my Fiance had her hands in her lap the entire time. I said "We never moved officer?" I found this odd, his demeanor was aggressive from the get-go. "License and Registration." and the first thing out of my mouth is "Officer, just so you're aware I'm carrying a concealed weapon, here's my CCW permit." as I handed him my ID and CCW.

When and from where did you retrieve your CWP.

You go on to say,
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwalker84 View Post
He gets on the radio and says something along the lines of "Yeah hes got a gun..."

Suddenly another officer pops up on the right side of the car which startled my fiance.

The first officer immediately got more aggravated and nervous, as if presenting my ccw was a threat. As I was looking through my paperwork for my insurance he says "Okay!! Alright, get out of the car, right now!!" I never once made any movements that would have been construed as going for my gun, but this guy was on the aggressive from the start.
You're no longer sitting with your hands on the wheel. You're looking through your paperwork. What was your reaction when your fiancée became startled?

Where was your paperwork while you're looking through it, when the second officer startled your fiancée?

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Last edited by RussP; 02-26-2012 at 14:27..
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Old 02-26-2012, 09:50   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussP View Post
dwalker84, congrats on the newborn.

Just curious, how far past registration renewal were you? Yeah, emission tests are a pain.

A month - My other vehicle was current - It's making odd noises so for safety reasons I took the other one.

I'd like to fill in what's to me a missing bit of information.
You said,When and from where did you retrieve your CWP.

You go on to say,You're no longer sitting with your hands on the wheel. You're looking through your paperwork. What was your reaction when your fiancée became startled?

Where was your paperwork while you're looking through it, when the second officer startled your fiancée?

He asked me for my drivers license and registration, I got out my wallet from my back pocket, handed him my CCW and ID, as I was handing him the CCW I said I was carrying. My hands remained on the wheel until he asked for my papers. He wasn't alarmed until conceal carry came out of my mouth. In the future I'll make sure never to offer the information freely.

The paperwork was in my hands in front of me, as I was sifting though it, looking for my insurance. No fast movements.

As far as my fiance being startled, I still had my hands on the paperwork and didn't react, I just remember her saying something like "Ah, wow, I didn't see him."
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Old 02-26-2012, 10:02   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Lumberg View Post
You weren't legit (registration), you got pulled over. Cops did their job (I love how one talked to you with his eyes). Are you clear on how you could avoid this in the future?
Yes I wasn't legit, I said that, I realize that. The first cop did his job in an extremely unprofessional manner, period. The second officer was incredibly respectful, and I fully believe DE-escalated the situation - had it not been for him I would have been screwed. I wasn't aware that people's body language was not a form of communication, that is news to me - His interaction with us the entire stop was that of someone who was trying to calm the situation. I'm sorry but I bet you the majority of officers out there would have been embarrassed by this guy. He tried to pin us off as if we were hiding drugs from the very get-go, and dropped it immediately when I said no one was moving, if that's the kind of cop you want patrolling your streets I have his badge number, maybe you can request him to come protect your family. This is not typical officer behavior, I have had plenty of excellent interactions with police in Tucson.

As I said in my original post I completely deserved the ticket, and understand why I got pulled over (really guy?) That doesn't excuse the way he acted. Had it been you, you would have been livid, why? because it's wrong...

Last edited by dwalker84; 02-26-2012 at 10:04..
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Old 02-26-2012, 10:11   #15
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I wouldn't have been livid. I may not have enjoyed the experience, but I wouldn't have projected my embarrassment on the person doing their job. But it's understandable that you didn't enjoy the interaction.
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Old 02-26-2012, 10:26   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Lumberg View Post
I wouldn't have been livid. I may not have enjoyed the experience, but I wouldn't have projected my embarrassment on the person doing their job. But it's understandable that you didn't enjoy the interaction.
So you would just 'not enjoy' being pulled out of your car, like a criminal, disarmed, and had your trunk illegally searched, because one officer in a bad mood doesn't like the fact that you carry? Really? Is it only acceptable to you because it happened to someone else, or are you really just that 'Zen'?
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Old 02-26-2012, 10:32   #17
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If it were me i would not be upset. We are all grown up's here and we know how some police officers act. another reason and the main reason why I would not be upset is he let you drive home with an expired registration. if that was around here you would have been walking home and had a tow charge to pay as well.
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Old 02-26-2012, 10:39   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Dean View Post
If it were me i would not be upset. We are all grown up's here and we know how some police officers act. another reason and the main reason why I would not be upset is he let you drive home with an expired registration. if that was around here you would have been walking home and had a tow charge to pay as well.
They don't tow your car here for expired registration, only if you have a suspended license. He wasn't doing me any favors. I'm sure he would have loved to. It still doesn't give him the right to illegally search my car.

This guy would have acted the same had I been pulled over for a seatbelt, a blinker out, etc - It still doesn't make it okay.

I'm more shocked than anything else. For those that live in Arizona, carrying here is common place - this isn't California - the cops deal with CCW'ers and OC'ers regularly. Our officers are sworn to uphold the constitution, not crap on people's 4th amendment.
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Old 02-26-2012, 10:47   #19
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Fourth amendment
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

We often talk about 2a but often anti-gun LE violate 4a. An out-of-date registration does reach a level for a search. You need to fill the complain about the search.
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Old 02-26-2012, 10:49   #20
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This is the sequence of your actions?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwalker84 View Post
  • He asked me for my drivers license and registration,

  • I got out my wallet from my back pocket,

  • handed him my CCW and ID,

  • as I was handing him the CCW I said I was carrying.

  • My hands remained on the wheel until he asked for my papers.

  • He wasn't alarmed until conceal carry came out of my mouth.
Usually, the sequence suggested by those who do advise is
  • My hands remained on the wheel until he asked for my papers.

  • He asked me for my drivers license and registration,

  • I then advised him I was carrying.

  • He asked where the weapon was.

  • I told him 1:00 Oclock, appendix carry.
And you'd go on from there...

See the difference? The hands stay on the steering wheel until everyone knows where the weapon is located.
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