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Old 04-04-2012, 07:09   #1176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Misty02 View Post

However, there may still be little to no evidence as to how they both got to that point and time and whether or not Martin was justified in defending himself as well.

.
Most media article attempt to revive this incidence, which in imho, is running out of its 15min fame as more concrete fact is coming out. They all zero'ing in how the situation got to that point.

I am a neutral person (I think). I would say it is irrelevant how you got there; it's relevant how you react to the situation that came upon you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Misty02 View Post
As a woman, I would not expose myself and try to confront the person following me to see why they are following me.

.
I think that is an important statement. That's what most reasonable people would do.

Now, imagine a neighborhood cat (to say that you are annoyed by a smaller statue) tailing you in an unfriendly manner, would you turn around and kick the cat ? especially if you are an athletic teenager when most people at this age tend to feel some level of invincibility ?

But such argument is irrelevant. If you beat up on a little one causing bodily harm, FL law allows the little one to use lethal force to defend her/himself. How you got to that situation that gives you overwhelming advantage, is irrelevant.

It could be that little one threw dirty diapers at you, but if she is threatened by you with serious harm, she is allowed to take you down.
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Old 04-04-2012, 08:51   #1177
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The fact is none of us know what actually happened. We have Zimmerman's account, which may be completely true, partially true, or a complete fabrication.

I tend to believe Z's story. It's my opinion that Martin grew tired of being followed and decided to end it by beating the crap out of Zimmerman. Z, in fear for his life, drew his gun and stopped the physical assault. I believe Florida's stand your ground law will prevent any criminal prosecution of Zimmerman.

It's also my opinion that George Zimmerman lacks common sense and this lack of common sense put himself in this no win situation. Z's actions that night were less than brilliant. He will live with this nightmare forever.

Just sayin' .....
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Old 04-04-2012, 09:09   #1178
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Listen to the calls for help in this video ...... Skip to about 1 min 12 seconds for the screams to start ......... What do you think? Anyone??

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...rayvon-martin/
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Old 04-04-2012, 09:14   #1179
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Originally Posted by Misty02 View Post
Put yourself in these shoes: A strange man is following you in his SUV, you have a bad feeling about the whole thing and attempt to evade, in doing so you get out of the path where the vehicle can follow and hide behind some building. The man exits his vehicle and goes looking for you eventually discovering your hiding place. It is dark out, you are alone trying to escape and can’t. You don’t know who he is, what his intentions are, whether he is armed or not. All you know is that he is without a doubt following and trying to get you. What do you do when he finds you again?

.
Why is escape not an option??
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Old 04-04-2012, 09:14   #1180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear62 View Post
The fact is none of us know what actually happened. We have Zimmerman's account, which may be completely true, partially true, or a complete fabrication.

I tend to believe Z's story. It's my opinion that Martin grew tired of being followed and decided to end it by beating the crap out of Zimmerman. Z, in fear for his life, drew his gun and stopped the physical assault. I believe Florida's stand your ground law will prevent any criminal prosecution of Zimmerman.

It's also my opinion that George Zimmerman lacks common sense and this lack of common sense put himself in this no win situation. Z's actions that night were less than brilliant. He will live with this nightmare forever.

Just sayin' .....
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Old 04-04-2012, 09:16   #1181
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In light of situations can come at us from any angle, I think it is smart to have a video cam with us. They are so cheap and portable with good low light and high definition, smaller than a cigarette pack.

Always have one in my car.

Have a larger system in your home, a few hundred bucks for such a system, and you can view it on internet from somewhere else.

I also would like to see GT organize a defense fund for members who are contributing to the fund, may be a few bucks each can really add up.

Last edited by ModGlock17; 04-04-2012 at 09:24..
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Old 04-04-2012, 10:04   #1182
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Originally Posted by ModGlock17 View Post
In light of situations can come at us from any angle, I think it is smart to have a video cam with us. They are so cheap and portable with good low light and high definition, smaller than a cigarette pack.

Always have one in my car.

Have a larger system in your home, a few hundred bucks for such a system, and you can view it on internet from somewhere else.

I also would like to see GT organize a defense fund for members who are contributing to the fund, may be a few bucks each can really add up.
Any fund raising would have to be cleared through Eric. Send him a pm. No response is a no answer.
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Old 04-04-2012, 10:17   #1183
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It's also my opinion that George Zimmerman lacks common sense and this lack of common sense put himself in this no win situation.
Didn't I read somewhere that Z is a registered Democrat???
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Old 04-04-2012, 10:35   #1184
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Originally Posted by bear62 View Post
The fact is none of us know what actually happened. We have Zimmerman's account, which may be completely true, partially true, or a complete fabrication.

I tend to believe Z's story. It's my opinion that Martin grew tired of being followed and decided to end it by beating the crap out of Zimmerman. Z, in fear for his life, drew his gun and stopped the physical assault. I believe Florida's stand your ground law will prevent any criminal prosecution of Zimmerman.

It's also my opinion that George Zimmerman lacks common sense and this lack of common sense put himself in this no win situation. Z's actions that night were less than brilliant. He will live with this nightmare forever.

Just sayin' .....
You start by saying "The fact is none of us know what actually happened".
Then you go on to say you tend to believe Zimmermans story, and that he lacks common sense, etc.

If you would have stopped at the first line, or maybe added the last line ("He will live with this nightmare forever") after that, it would have made more sense.
Everything in-between is speculation.
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Old 04-04-2012, 10:50   #1185
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Originally Posted by bear62 View Post
I believe Florida's stand your ground law will prevent any criminal prosecution of Zimmerman.
As far as this is concerned, I don't believe the SYGL will apply. What seems to be coming out is that Z was pinned down by M (or why else could he have gotten an injury to the back of his head, and the back of his jacked covered with grass). If that is the case, then retreat was already impossible, which therefore does not even come in to SYGL territory. Simply put, SYGL says that if retreat is possible, there is no duty to do so.
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Old 04-04-2012, 10:51   #1186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpringerTGO View Post
You start by saying "The fact is none of us know what actually happened".
Then you go on to say you tend to believe Zimmermans story, and that he lacks common sense, etc.

If you would have stopped at the first line, or maybe added the last line ("He will live with this nightmare forever") after that, it would have made more sense.
Everything in-between is speculation.
But if we stuck to what we know, imagine how boring this thread would be. Not to mention how short.
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Old 04-04-2012, 11:21   #1187
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Since you popped back in, please reply:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpringerTGO View Post
I have no idea whether the shooting was right or wrong, and I hope that Zimmerman gets a fair trial, if it goes to trial.

That said, if it was my teenage son who was killed, I would want answers. The Sanford police weren't responsive enough to the parent's media's questions, and because of that they fueled the media frenzy.
I think it sucks that Zimmerman is getting tried in the court of public opinion, and that a lot of this might have been avoided had the Sanford police been forthright with the information they have.
If it turns out they didn't do their job, it would have been better to figure that out right away, rather than through Grand Jury (and other) investigations. If they did do their job, they should have provided the facts much sooner.
What is your answer to this?
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Old 04-04-2012, 11:32   #1188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Misty02 View Post
As a woman, I would not expose myself and try to confront the person following me to see why they are following me. Nonetheless, I would be on the phone with 911 and the encounter would be recorded until police arrived or a reaction became inevitable. It is quite likely the person (should they attempt to continue their approach) would be informed that I'm on the phone with the police. We play it by ear from there.

.
Misty,

You touch on a point I think no one has mentioned. Martin had a phone, as he was talking to his girlfriend. I think the first reaction of most people concerned about being followed, but not in immediate harm, would be to call 911.
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Old 04-04-2012, 12:14   #1189
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Originally Posted by jack76590 View Post
Misty,

You touch on a point I think no one has mentioned. Martin had a phone, as he was talking to his girlfriend. I think the first reaction of most people concerned about being followed, but not in immediate harm, would be to call 911.
I wasn't there. Having said that, Z's intuition that M was up to no good is likely accurate, which we will never know. That explains why calling 911 wasn't done, because he might have to answer why he was snooping around.


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Old 04-04-2012, 12:36   #1190
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I wasn't there. Having said that, Z's intuition that M was up to no good is likely accurate, which we will never know. That explains why calling 911 wasn't done, because he might have to answer why he was snooping around.


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OR he might have not been paying close attention until Z. made himself obvious, then didn't think about calling 911 because he'd been taught not to trust the cops.
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Old 04-04-2012, 13:15   #1191
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OR he might have not been paying close attention until Z. made himself obvious, then didn't think about calling 911 because he'd been taught not to trust the cops.
Where did you read he'd been taught not to trust the cops?
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Old 04-04-2012, 13:17   #1192
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Where did you read he'd been taught not to trust the cops?
Lmao. Come on you don't get it!


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Old 04-04-2012, 13:42   #1193
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Originally Posted by TheeBadOne View Post
What is your answer to this?
Without a doubt, for whatever reasons justifiable or not, the Sanford police didn't give the parents the information they needed. The police, media, and parents have pretty much agreed on that.
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Old 04-04-2012, 13:59   #1194
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delete (off-topic)
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Old 04-04-2012, 14:21   #1195
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Without a doubt, for whatever reasons justifiable or not, the Sanford police didn't give the parents the information they needed. The police, media, and parents have pretty much agreed on that.
Would you cite where the Police agreed as such.
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Old 04-04-2012, 14:26   #1196
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Where did you read he'd been taught not to trust the cops?
Reality, like the answer to this question, may be racist.
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Old 04-04-2012, 14:37   #1197
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Originally Posted by SpringerTGO View Post
You start by saying "The fact is none of us know what actually happened".
Then you go on to say you tend to believe Zimmermans story, and that he lacks common sense, etc.

If you would have stopped at the first line, or maybe added the last line ("He will live with this nightmare forever") after that, it would have made more sense.
Everything in-between is speculation.
By his own words he got out of his car to look for an unknown suspicious person at night in the rain. That is a very bad judgement call. For all he knew the person could have been armed and if he was he probably would have been dead. That is the first reason I think he was not very smart. The second reason is that he then allowed the suspect who he thought was suspicious already to close enough to attack him. Now none of that is illegal, but sure was not smart. Before you chase something it is always smart to consider what you are going to do if you catch it.
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Old 04-04-2012, 15:00   #1198
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By his own words he got out of his car to look for an unknown suspicious person at night in the rain. ...
True. He is in the local neighborhood watch program. They are trained to observe and report.
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Biltz View Post
...That is a very bad judgement call. ...
He is a participant in the neighborhood watch program, which he lives in a neighborhood that had recent numerous crimes (including break-ins). He was following through on his commitment to his neighborhood watch responsibilities.

Not bad judgement at all. You're simply wrong here.

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... For all he knew the person could have been armed and if he was he probably would have been dead. That is the first reason I think he was not very smart. ...
So you would only be a good neighborhood watch participant when all the criminals coming into your neighborhood are UNARMED. Gotcha! (please don't move near me.)
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... The second reason is that he then allowed the suspect who he thought was suspicious already to close enough to attack him. ...
Here is where you skew the entire scenario in order to key-hole the outcome as only caused by Z, which only this conclusion fits into your underlying supposition about this event.

As far as we know from Police reports: Z lost sight of M and then Z either had just made it back to his truck, or was going back to his truck when M attacked Z from behind. Due to Z being attacked from behind by M, M gained the upper hand quickly and opened a can of whoop-*** on Z.

Quote:
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... Now none of that is illegal, but sure was not smart. ...
You're right, as far as we know from eyewitnesses and Police reports, Z did NOTHING illegal, but M did by way of committing assault on Z.
Quote:
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... Before you chase something it is always smart to consider what you are going to do if you catch it.
You're trying to imply that Z chased M yet again. This has been your theme throughout and you are completely ignoring known facts from eyewitnesses and the statements of those involved in this event.

You sound not unlike the racists that are trumping this whole issue up based on the color of someone's skin. Are you on nottoosharpton's payroll?

Yes. M chased and caught Z. It is a tragedy for M's family
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Last edited by Peace Warrior; 04-04-2012 at 15:02..
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Old 04-04-2012, 15:45   #1199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpringerTGO View Post
You start by saying "The fact is none of us know what actually happened".
Then you go on to say you tend to believe Zimmermans story, and that he lacks common sense, etc.

If you would have stopped at the first line, or maybe added the last line ("He will live with this nightmare forever") after that, it would have made more sense.
Everything in-between is speculation.
With more than a 1000 posts in this thread, speculation has been quite common. I doubt we will ever know exactly what happened that night. For whatever reason I tend to accept Z's story ........ and yes I have a strong belief Z is lacking in the common sense department..........
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Old 04-04-2012, 15:55   #1200
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Would you cite where the Police agreed as such.
It's common knowledge the police didn't release information pending the investigation. It's also common knowledge that played a part in the no confidence vote and police chief stepping down.
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