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Old 03-30-2012, 15:11   #961
series1811
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Originally Posted by Roger1079 View Post
I would rather run the risk of POSSIBLY being shot while trying to run away rather than GAURANTEEING I am going to be shot by trying to fist fight with someone that just pulled a gun on me.
Who is providing you with this information on what is a possible risk and what is guaranteed, when facing someone with a gun who you believe intends to shoot you?
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Old 03-30-2012, 15:34   #962
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Rush to judgment in Trayvon Martin case

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/30/opinio...ss_igoogle_cnn

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Old 03-30-2012, 15:37   #963
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Originally Posted by series1811 View Post
Who is providing you with this information on what is a possible risk and what is guaranteed, when facing someone with a gun who you believe intends to shoot you?
It's common sense! Besides, on reflection, Roger1079's comment is right in line with your own signature line:

'A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself: but the simple pass on, and are punished.' - Proverbs 22:3

From what I've been reading, so far it really does look like Martin ran towards, rather than away from, Zimmerman.
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Old 03-30-2012, 15:46   #964
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Originally Posted by theebadone View Post
rush to judgment in trayvon martin case

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/30/opinio...ss_igoogle_cnn

Quote:
the leading cause of death for black male teenagers is homicide, according to the national center for health statistics. Of all the black homicide victims, about 93% are killed by other black people. In 2011, nearly 85% of all people murdered in philadelphia were black. Where are the marches and protests for these victims? Is it justice people seek or are they looking and even hoping for signs of white racism so they can exploit it?
bingo!
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Old 03-30-2012, 15:50   #965
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Originally Posted by Roger1079 View Post
I would rather run the risk of POSSIBLY being shot while trying to run away rather than GAURANTEEING I am going to be shot by trying to fist fight with someone that just pulled a gun on me.
It is impossible to determine as of now what would work in a future situation and what will not. As difficult as it may be at the time, you have to play it by ear based on all the data your senses are receiving from all sources (the location you’re in, the person that is threatening you, who else is present, etc). Running away may in fact be the best possible move that yields the highest possibility of success; the same will be true of fighting your way out; each will be directly tied to the situation faced (not to what you think you’ll do as of today).

.
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Old 03-30-2012, 16:02   #966
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Whose property do you think he was on? Usually the grounds of these types of places are designated as common areas and maintained by the homeowners' association. As a resident of the community, he'd generally have a right to be there as long as he was in compliance with any rules set forth by the association.
I do not have the facts of this case.

My research shows this community has about 42 buildings, each generally comprised of 6 separately owned units to a building format. Each owned unit is two floors and owner of generally a 25'x65' piece of land, if you can picture that. It's about 1,600sqft. Unit footprints are about 600sqft, which leaves 1,000sqft of grass and driveways. So there's about 260,000sqft or 6 acres of land owned that is not occupied by buildings and separate from roadways. They have a large pond and a clubhouse with large grassy area, typically seen in FL subdivisions.

Definitely high density, and lower priced real estates.

As a matter of probability, I think it is likely to be on someone's yard and Martin could have weaved in-out between the buildings.

Again, I think what covers Zimmer is this FL Statue:
Title XLVI
CRIMESChapter 776
JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCEView Entire Chapter776.012 Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or
(2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.

Whether he originally pursue Martin is irrelevant at that point. The law allows him to defend himself. The truth is that his life will change forever, which is true whenever you pull the trigger on someone, justifiable or not.

----
Al Sharpie now threatens civil disobedience. LOL

If Obama is looking for a reason to unite dark people, he's getting close.
And I thought he was to unite ALL Americans. LOL

But my hope is that more people will see his true face !

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Old 03-30-2012, 16:11   #967
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Originally Posted by Misty02 View Post
It is impossible to determine as of now what would work in a future situation and what will not. As difficult as it may be at the time, you have to play it by ear based on all the data your senses are receiving from all sources (the location you’re in, the person that is threatening you, who else is present, etc).
True! Hence the wisdom of Proverbs 22:3 When confronted by the unknown, withdrawl is always the best option. I wasn't there; I don't know for certain; but, I have begun to strongly suspect that Martin had quite a temper; and, whatever else happened that night, he decide to follow it.

Quote:
Running away may in fact be the best possible move that yields the highest possibility of success; the same will be true of fighting your way out; each will be directly tied to the situation faced (not to what you think you’ll do as of today).
No! 'Fighting your way out' always involves definite and immediate risks that have little or no part in straightforwardly running away. I think the assumption more than safe that IF Martin had, in fact, run away that night then Zimmerman would NOT have shot him in the back. Hence, on the evidence at hand, Martin was an active (and culpable) contributor to his own death.
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Old 03-30-2012, 16:33   #968
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Originally Posted by Arc Angel View Post

I think the assumption more than safe that IF Martin had, in fact, run away that night then Zimmerman would NOT have shot him in the back. Hence, on the evidence at hand, Martin was an active (and culpable) contributor to his own death.
I agree.

Once Martin was on top beating a smaller man on the bottom (if true), at that point, he lost the protection of the law and the law came on Zimmer's side.
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Old 03-30-2012, 16:37   #969
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Originally Posted by Arc Angel View Post
True! Hence the wisdom of Proverbs 22:3 When confronted by the unknown, withdrawl is always the best option. I wasn't there; I don't know for certain; but, I have begun to strongly suspect that Martin had quite a temper; and, whatever else happened that night, he decide to follow it.



No! 'Fighting your way out' always involves definite and immediate risks that have little or no part in straightforwardly running away. I think the assumption more than safe that IF Martin had, in fact, run away that night then Zimmerman would NOT have shot him in the back. Hence, on the evidence at hand, Martin was an active (and culpable) contributor to his own death.

You are talking about this particular case; the comment I responded to was talking in general terms, thus you’re responding to my comments out of context.

I will always select retreat as my first option; to think that option will be available always is unreasonable. To develop a mindset that at the sight of an aimed firearm you program yourself to run could leave you (and your loved ones) as dead as if you had just stood there, when the better option would have been to run.

.
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Old 03-30-2012, 17:27   #970
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I think a lot of what determines whether to fight or retreat depends on the distance to the attacker, and whether you have the physical ability to overcome the attacker, should you be able to close the range.

If someone was up close to me, and telling me to get on my knees, I'd fight.
I can see where a small woman might only consider running, especially against a large man with a weapon.

Misty..... I don't see any scenarios for a civilian on a public street, to have a weapon drawn in the ready position, because of a suspicious sighting. I can see having a hand on my weapon while it is holstered, but that's about it.
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Old 03-30-2012, 17:34   #971
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Originally Posted by Misty02 View Post
You are talking about this particular case; the comment I responded to was talking in general terms, thus you’re responding to my comments out of context.
Oh, no I wasn't. That's the way you read my reply. My opening remarks were strictly generalized. It's only towards the end of the paragraph that I, 'switched gears' and became subjective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Misty02 View Post
...... to think that option will be available always is unreasonable. To develop a mindset that at the sight of an aimed firearm you program yourself to run could leave you (and your loved ones) as dead as if you had just stood there, when the better option would have been to run.
Misty, you need to stop emoting and actually read and think about what I said. Trust me on this: What you think I said, and what I actually said are NOT the same thing. OK!
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Old 03-30-2012, 17:37   #972
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Originally Posted by TheeBadOne View Post
Rush to judgment in Trayvon Martin case

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/30/opinio...ss_igoogle_cnn

Its nice to see a voice of reason in the media, rather than the lambasting of the guy before all of the facts are known. Of course, folks such as sharpton an jackson will look the other way, claiming bias, etc....
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Old 03-30-2012, 17:49   #973
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It's common sense! .
I guess I'll have to go back for retraining.
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Old 03-30-2012, 17:52   #974
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Arrest the victim? The suspect was killed
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Old 03-30-2012, 17:57   #975
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I guess I'll have to go back for retraining.
I don't know; but it IS your sig line.
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Old 03-30-2012, 18:48   #976
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Oh, no I wasn't. That's the way you read my reply. My opening remarks were strictly generalized. It's only towards the end of the paragraph that I, 'switched gears' and became subjective.



Misty, you need to stop emoting and actually read and think about what I said. Trust me on this: What you think I said, and what I actually said are NOT the same thing. OK!
This is the conversation in question. If what I understood and what you said are not the same thing, then I may need some help seeing the difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by series1811 View Post
So, if someone pulls a gun on you, and you don't have a weapon, and you think he is going to shoot you, what is your plan? To just die?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger1079 View Post
I would rather run the risk of POSSIBLY being shot while trying to run away rather than GAURANTEEING I am going to be shot by trying to fist fight with someone that just pulled a gun on me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Misty02 View Post
It is impossible to determine as of now what would work in a future situation and what will not. As difficult as it may be at the time, you have to play it by ear based on all the data your senses are receiving from all sources (the location you’re in, the person that is threatening you, who else is present, etc). Running away may in fact be the best possible move that yields the highest possibility of success; the same will be true of fighting your way out; each will be directly tied to the situation faced (not to what you think you’ll do as of today).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arc Angel View Post
True! Hence the wisdom of Proverbs 22:3 When confronted by the unknown, withdrawl is always the best option. I wasn't there; I don't know for certain; but, I have begun to strongly suspect that Martin had quite a temper; and, whatever else happened that night, he decide to follow it.



No! 'Fighting your way out' always involves definite and immediate risks that have little or no part in straightforwardly running away. I think the assumption more than safe that IF Martin had, in fact, run away that night then Zimmerman would NOT have shot him in the back. Hence, on the evidence at hand, Martin was an active (and culpable) contributor to his own death.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Misty02 View Post
You are talking about this particular case; the comment I responded to was talking in general terms, thus you’re responding to my comments out of context.

I will always select retreat as my first option; to think that option will be available always is unreasonable. To develop a mindset that at the sight of an aimed firearm you program yourself to run could leave you (and your loved ones) as dead as if you had just stood there, when the better option would have been to run.
ETA: I didn't experess the blue part correctly, what I meant was that there would be times where running away is the best option and others where fighting your way out would be the best option. Select the wrong one and you're just as dead. You have to pay attention (not be set in just one way) to know which would be appropriate.
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Old 03-30-2012, 18:56   #977
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This is the conversation in question. If what I understood and what you said are not the same thing, then I may need some help seeing the difference.
Nevermind!

(If I weren't such a devious and complex person, I'd try to explain it all to ya; but, let's be perfectly honest: THAT would take all the fun out of things - Wouldn't it!)
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Old 03-30-2012, 19:16   #978
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Originally Posted by TheeBadOne View Post
Rush to judgment in Trayvon Martin case

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/30/opinio...ss_igoogle_cnn

Read it twice....... all I can say is WOW ..... I hope everyone will take the time to read this article....... Thanks for posting...
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Old 03-30-2012, 19:44   #979
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Read it twice....... all I can say is WOW ..... I hope everyone will take the time to read this article....... Thanks for posting...
I'm curious to know what part(s) are "WOW" for you?
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Old 03-30-2012, 20:02   #980
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Nevermind!

(If I weren't such a devious and complex person, I'd try to explain it all to ya; but, let's be perfectly honest: THAT would take all the fun out of things - Wouldn't it!)
If you say so.
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