[Garndtz]

Love what you could do with this, but worried about the recoil of a g 20 just throwing the thing off, especially with a 6 inch barrel and hunting loads.

Could a standard drill and tap mount hold it on, or would you need the slide milled?

I would appreciate any thoughts...

[Mountain10mm]

It's an interesting question because the slide is moving, but that being said, Smith and Wesson revolvers use a screw mount system for their scopes and rings...and Smith makes some BIG revolvers. Most extremely large bore and powerful hunting rifles also use a screw mounted ring, drilled and tapped into the receiver. Another plus is that the mass of the red-dot (assuming something like a Burris Fastfire II) is relatively small compareable to even a small scope. If you could get it to work and not be position overly high on the slide, I think the scews would more-than carry the load.

[miketke]

This is how someone did it for a g17.
http://www.outdoorhub.com/news/brown...T+Newsletter+1

[TSAX]

Originally Posted by Garndtz

Love what you could do with this, but worried about the recoil of a g 20 just throwing the thing off, especially with a 6 inch barrel and hunting loads.

Could a standard drill and tap mount hold it on, or would you need the slide milled?

I would appreciate any thoughts...

I have seen the Burris Fastfire II mounted without having to cut into the slide on several guns and not had issue but never a 10mm. This might be a great question to ask in the GATE Experts Forum or heck even try calling Lone Wolf they were always very helpful to me.

[GRT45]

Another resource to contact is Trijicon. They offer the RM44: Glock RMR Pistol Mount which is a screw mount for the RMR to an adapter plate and then mounted to the slide in the stock dovetail in place of the rear sight. They can probably tell you if it has been used successfully on the Glock 20.

[Atomic Punk]

could try one of these.

http://www.lonewolfdist.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=198&CAT=43


http://www.lonewolfdist.com/Detail.a...D=1200&CAT=155

[blackgun556]

I have the C more STS mounted on the g 20. have over 1000 rounds of full power ammo threw it with no problems. I used there sight mount and it went right on.

[Yondering]

Originally Posted by miketke

This is how someone did it for a g17.
http://www.outdoorhub.com/news/brown...T+Newsletter+1

This is halfway right, but they still screwed up by removing the rear sight notch. TSD is the only place I've seen that really does the red dot installation right, IMO. One Source Tactical sells TSD slides, and TSD slide modifications on Glock slides: http://www.onesourcetactical.com/adv...x#.T2ftA9Xa9-w

I'm not associated with them in any way, but it's obvious there's a big advantage in dot aquisition when you still have useable iron sights too. Of course, it costs more money to do it "right".

[GRT45]

Originally Posted by Yondering

This is halfway right, but they still screwed up by removing the rear sight notch. TSD is the only place I've seen that really does the red dot installation right, IMO. One Source Tactical sells TSD slides, and TSD slide modifications on Glock slides: http://www.onesourcetactical.com/adv...x#.T2ftA9Xa9-w

I'm not associated with them in any way, but it's obvious there's a big advantage in dot aquisition when you still have useable iron sights too. Of course, it costs more money to do it "right".

Amen to everything you wrote about the superior configuration of RDS and BUIS that TSD Combat Systems provides, but let's give a mention to Mark Housel too.

I highly recommend either of these companies to do the best work:

1. Mark Housel with L&M Precision Gunworks, LLC in Prescott, AZ

2. TSD Combat Systems (affiliated with One Source Tactical)

Mark Housel spent 18 months doing this work for TSD/OST as their exclusive provider until his contract ended. He has his own business now to continue this work and other gunsmithing. Mark would be my first choice if you want to have a Glock OEM or Lone Wolf slide milled and the RMR with co-witnessed BUIS installed.

TSD Combat Systems can talk to you about their exclusive AquaTerra™ line of custom G17 and G19 slides and match barrels with the RMR and BUIS system installed. They can mill a Glock OEM or Lone Wolf slide you provide as well for the G17, G19 or any other Glock pistol model.

[Yondering]

Thanks for the info, I had not heard of Mark Housel before. I'll probably go with him for my Glock 21 RMR setup.

[blackgun556]

After you shoot 200 rounds or so you pick up the dot real fast.. and for $500. you can do alot of practice. I have never seen a g20 milled out and what it would do to the strength of the slide when shooting high powered rounds over time. mine is more of a range and hunting gun. I use the g29 and kimber eclipse 10mm for self defense.

[_The_Shadow]

Take a look at this operation...
http://www.bayoushooter.com/forums/s...milling-option

[bikerdog]

Originally Posted by _The_Shadow

Take a look at this operation...
http://www.bayoushooter.com/forums/s...milling-option

That is fricking awesome.

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[Yondering]

Originally Posted by blackgun556

I have never seen a g20 milled out and what it would do to the strength of the slide when shooting high powered rounds over time.

The rear half of the slide (behind the breech face) is minimally stressed; milling the slide for an optic in this area does not cause any durability concerns.

[GRT45]

Originally Posted by _The_Shadow

Take a look at this operation...
http://www.bayoushooter.com/forums/s...milling-option

That is fascinating work! I knew Mark Housel was working on some cutting-edge ideas for mounting optics on pistols, but that is the first time I've seen those CAD renditions. Very cool, thanks for the link.

The civilian market in these optical sight systems for everyday CCW is taking off. In 5-10 years it wouldn't surprise me if every major pistol maker offers models of RDS-ready pistols. If Glock doesn't venture into this market, the competition will leave them behind.

[toddnjoy]

Lone wolf dose the same milling for the red dot placing it in front of your rear sight so they are still usable.

[ArmyDoc]

Originally Posted by Yondering

This is halfway right, but they still screwed up by removing the rear sight notch. TSD is the only place I've seen that really does the red dot installation right, IMO. One Source Tactical sells TSD slides, and TSD slide modifications on Glock slides: http://www.onesourcetactical.com/adv...x#.T2ftA9Xa9-w

I'm not associated with them in any way, but it's obvious there's a big advantage in dot aquisition when you still have useable iron sights too. Of course, it costs more money to do it "right".

TSD does a quality mount. I have a Lone Wolf slide for my G21 that they did this on back when they were sourcing their slides from Lone Wolf. Had some problems with the slide itself, but their work was quality. Shouldn't be a problem if you use the G20 slide.

Lone Wolf will also do a "slide melt" mount that is similar.

I've put ~ 1000 rounds through mine - granted .45 not 10mm, but no shift in zero and I have to say I wish I'd done it sooner. I find target acquisition to be much faster, and I'm more accurate with it too.

[GRT45]

Originally Posted by ArmyDoc

Lone Wolf will also do a "slide melt" mount that is similar.

When I was shopping around for a company that could mill my Glock OEM slide, I learned the Slide Melt service from LWD is unavailable for OEM slides. I believe that is still true (see statement on their web site currently).

There is another important distinction in the quality of craftsmanship that Mark Housel or TSD/OST provide. The last time I checked, the LWD Slide Melt makes the slide cuts straight across, whereas Mark Housel and TSD/OST carefully curve the forward cut to exactly match the contour of the RMR base.

[_The_Shadow]

You all are very welcome for the link, very educational and functional info!
I was never a big fan of electronic sights...failure does not equal sucess! Laser sights in addition to the standard sights are better for defensive situations in my opinion.

However electronic sights in competition or target shooting have their purpose!

[Yondering]

Originally Posted by _The_Shadow

I was never a big fan of electronic sights...failure does not equal sucess! Laser sights in addition to the standard sights are better for defensive situations in my opinion.

I tend to disagree about lasers, having found them pretty much useless when they are needed, but quite a novelty otherwise.

The TSD type of setup eliminates any concern about failure of the red dot sight, because the iron sights are still in place and fully functional. That's my problem with these sight mounts that replace the sight; when the battery dies, you've got no sights left.

[Ethereal Killer]

Originally Posted by GRT45

Amen to everything you wrote about the superior configuration of RDS and BUIS that TSD Combat Systems provides, but let's give a mention to Mark Housel too.

I highly recommend either of these companies to do the best work:

1. Mark Housel with L&M Precision Gunworks, LLC in Prescott, AZ

2. TSD Combat Systems (affiliated with One Source Tactical)

Mark Housel spent 18 months doing this work for TSD/OST as their exclusive provider until his contract ended. He has his own business now to continue this work and other gunsmithing. Mark would be my first choice if you want to have a Glock OEM or Lone Wolf slide milled and the RMR with co-witnessed BUIS installed.

If we are gonna be all technical about who did what to whom, lets get down to the source fo this stuff.

HERES what happened for those who care to find the real source of the milled in RDS...

Housel graduated gunsmith school a couple years ago and went to work with Suarez. Some members showed off thier RDS milled slides done by Bowie Tactical's Dave bowie who's been doing them for 5 years or more and has refined the whole process over the years.
Suarez and Housel MINED bowie for technical information on how to do the process then dumped him and started offering the whole RDS milled thing as if it was their own creation. No surprise then that Suarez would dump Housel at a later date once he had gotten things at TSD dialed in and no longer was needed. Now TSD simply subcontracts out all their "products" to some local machinist and does nothing but marketing and sales to be truthful. they really dont actually produce anything at TSD they broker things.

SO.... if you REALLY want to go to the guy who has done ALL sorts of guns (not just glock 17's) and knows a thing or two about milling these things in and configuring them, has shot them extensively and trained with them and trained OTHER in thier use and will do the work for you himself... Give Bowie Tactical a call.

If on the other hand you want to work with a company with a LONG history of "partnerships" where Suarez gains the knowledge and expertise form another party then dumps them and moves on to the next "best" thing, then maybe give TSD a call. I'm sure Gabe Suarez and his "empire" will thank you.

[bikerdog]

Originally Posted by Ethereal Killer

If we are gonna be all technical about who did what to whom, lets get down to the source fo this stuff.

HERES what happened for those who care to find the real source of the milled in RDS...

Housel graduated gunsmith school a couple years ago and went to work with Suarez. Some members showed off thier RDS milled slides done by Bowie Tactical's Dave bowie who's been doing them for 5 years or more and has refined the whole process over the years.
Suarez and Housel MINED bowie for technical information on how to do the process then dumped him and started offering the whole RDS milled thing as if it was their own creation. No surprise then that Suarez would dump Housel at a later date once he had gotten things at TSD dialed in and no longer was needed. Now TSD simply subcontracts out all their "products" to some local machinist and does nothing but marketing and sales to be truthful. they really dont actually produce anything at TSD they broker things.

SO.... if you REALLY want to go to the guy who has done ALL sorts of guns (not just glock 17's) and knows a thing or two about milling these things in and configuring them, has shot them extensively and trained with them and trained OTHER in thier use and will do the work for you himself... Give Bowie Tactical a call.

If on the other hand you want to work with a company with a LONG history of "partnerships" where Suarez gains the knowledge and expertise form another party then dumps them and moves on to the next "best" thing, then maybe give TSD a call. I'm sure Gabe Suarez and his "empire" will thank you.

Thank you for posting this. I have a TSD glock 17 that i love but i have been on warriortalk a lot latley and have been really put of what gabe says about david bowie on their. And this explains why. I love having an RMR on my handgun and love my TSD G17 but is this is true i will not be using TSD again.

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[Ethereal Killer]

Originally Posted by bikerdog

Thank you for posting this. I have a TSD glock 17 that i love but i have been on warriortalk a lot latley and have been really put of what gabe says about david bowie on their. And this explains why. I love having an RMR on my handgun and love my TSD G17 but is this is true i will not be using TSD again.

that is unfortunate that badmouthing is going on and tacky.

SI/TSD/OST is really good at marketing things, but not so good at developing things. They latch on to innovators and use them till they are done with them.

their newest VEPR project is gonna be funny to watch. Wonder how much THAT will cost when they are done.

[Yondering]

Yes, good information.

TSD does seem to have a pretty high opinion of their products. They get away with a pretty impressive markup on stuff they sell.

One thing I don't like about the Bowie setup though is having the rear sight in front of the red dot. It just doesn't make sense in my mind to mill through the existing sight dovetail, then cut a new one, instead of just putting the red dot in front of the rear sight. It may not seem to matter that much, but it seems like extra work & extra cost, for no benefit. I would rather not lose the sight radius of the original sights.

I'll be going with Mark Housel with rear mounted BUIS when I do my G21 slide.

[bikerdog]

Originally Posted by Yondering

Yes, good information.

TSD does seem to have a pretty high opinion of their products. They get away with a pretty impressive markup on stuff they sell.

One thing I don't like about the Bowie setup is having the rear sight in front of the red dot. It just doesn't make sense in my mind to mill through the existing sight dovetail, then cut a new one, instead of just putting the red dot in front of the rear sight. Of course the Leopold sight has the adjustments on the rear, but I saw a picture of this setup with a couple holes milled through the rear sight for adjustments, so even that's not a good reason.

He offers both the setup you are talking about. But also offers it the other way with the rear site behind the redot. Also from looking at his web page it looks like the sites behind the redot are cheaper to mill

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