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Old 03-20-2012, 19:18   #1
jdavionic
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Home Invasion...by the Police

Edited per Russ' suggestion:


In the case below, the police were actually LEOs. In a case in ATL, police entered a home of an elderly woman and the results were tragic. Yet we also have cases where individuals are posing as police to gain entry into your home and commit crimes. This puts armed citizens in a challenging position.

http://pennrecord.com/news/city-and-...n-with-autism/

With home invaders posing as law enforcement more and more often, what are you prepared to do if you question the validity and legitimacy of a person or persons at your door in uniform?

P.S. I created a separate thread for the civil rights discussion pertaining to the posted article over here:
http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show...0#post18738330
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Last edited by jdavionic; 03-21-2012 at 06:53..
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Old 03-20-2012, 21:10   #2
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Don't open your door for police. If you didn't do anything wrong, they can call you on the phone or send you a letter. If you have to, show up at their office with your lawyer.
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Old 03-20-2012, 22:32   #3
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Don't open your door for police. If you didn't do anything wrong, they can call you on the phone or send you a letter. If you have to, show up at their office with your lawyer.
You do what you want, I'll do what I want.
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Old 03-21-2012, 03:57   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdavionic View Post
I expect this one will not end well for the officers. You would think the lessons on Atlanta would still be fresh on the minds of police officers.

If someone in the home was armed, what do you think they would instinctively do in this situation?
http://pennrecord.com/news/city-and-...n-with-autism/
This seems to be more a Civil Liberties Issues topic and discussion than a Carry Issues topic.

Someone convince me otherwise. I'm going to move it to Civil Liberties Issues unless a very persuasive argument not to is made.

If it stays here, you'll miss out on the really interesting, really juicy back stories about those involved.
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Old 03-21-2012, 05:22   #5
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Originally Posted by RussP View Post
This seems to be more a Civil Liberties Issues topic and discussion than a Carry Issues topic.

Someone convince me otherwise. I'm going to move it to Civil Liberties Issues unless a very persuasive argument not to is made.

If it stays here, you'll miss out on the really interesting, really juicy back stories about those involved.
I didn't know where this post would go. We have had home invasions in my state where the BGs have presented themselves at the door as police, when they were not. Hence the question in my OP:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdavionic
If someone in the home was armed, what do you think they would instinctively do in this situation?
So if you have 'real police' showing up and forcing entry (either by mistake - like ATL, or perhaps due to some other reason related to this case), it makes it more challenging for the armed homeowner to know how to respond.

However the thread hasn't really gone down that path, which is fine too.
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Old 03-21-2012, 05:59   #6
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I didn't know where this post would go. We have had home invasions in my state where the BGs have presented themselves at the door as police, when they were not. Hence the question in my OP:


So if you have 'real police' showing up and forcing entry (either by mistake - like ATL, or perhaps due to some other reason related to this case), it makes it more challenging for the armed homeowner to know how to respond.

However the thread hasn't really gone down that path, which is fine too.
What do you want to discuss?

You link to a story about egregious behavior by a couple of cops against a special needs person. Do you want to discuss that story? Everyone is reacting to the story and not your question.

Your question, "If someone in the home was armed, what do you think they would instinctively do in this situation?", is itself limiting responses when you interject, "...in this situation."

A better question might be, "With home invaders posing as law enforcement more and more often, what are you prepared to do if you question the validity and legitimacy of a person or persons at your door in uniform?", if that's what you want to discuss.

There are two topics: The behavior of the officers in the linked story, and yes, there may be/is more to the two officer's histories than is in that article - that's one topic. The other is what I set out in my question.

I'd suggest amending your original post here to narrow the discussion to the carry issue, and start a new thread in Civil Liberties Issues about the article.

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Old 03-21-2012, 17:52   #7
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Maine home invasion by fake DEA...
http://www1.whdh.com/news/articles/l...ke-dea-agents/


So you have banging on the door, you hear "Police, search warrant!", your armed with your wife and kids,...what next?
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Old 03-21-2012, 18:33   #8
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Maine home invasion by fake DEA...
http://www1.whdh.com/news/articles/l...ke-dea-agents/


So you have banging on the door, you hear "Police, search warrant!", your armed with your wife and kids,...what next?
Dial 911.
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Old 03-21-2012, 18:38   #9
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You do what you want, I'll do what I want.
And what is it you want to do?
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Old 03-21-2012, 18:44   #10
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Dial 911.
That was my thought. Tell them that you or better yet your wife/gf are on the phone with 911 dispatch and will let them in when you are assured they are legit. What I don't know is whether real police would stand down.
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Old 03-21-2012, 18:46   #11
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In any of several police impersonation home invasions that I have had some familiarity with, the victim(s) had a great description of the event and had excellent detailed descriptions of the subjects sometimes including seemingly credible information as to their identities and/or locations and yet seemed to have essentially no idea what was taken from them.
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Old 03-21-2012, 19:28   #12
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In any of several police impersonation home invasions that I have had some familiarity with, the victim(s) had a great description of the event and had excellent detailed descriptions of the subjects sometimes including seemingly credible information as to their identities and/or locations and yet seemed to have essentially no idea what was taken from them.
Well hey, that's not just police impersonation home invasions, that's home invasions on the average. I mean, who wants to tell the cops that you know the person who robbed you because you're both dopers and that they stole your dope?
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Old 03-21-2012, 19:35   #13
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Well hey, that's not just police impersonation home invasions, that's home invasions on the average. I mean, who wants to tell the cops that you know the person who robbed you because you're both dopers and that they stole your dope?
I used to believe that was the case. However I had an opportunity to serve on my county Grand Jury and heard 500-600 cases in a 6 month period.

In that period, yes...we heard cases where the "victim" was involved in drugs. We also heard cases where the victim was targeted because they were illegal immigrants.

However we also heard cases where the victims were not criminals. An elderly couple that were invaded by men with POLICE on their shirts, etc...who were subsequently restrained with nylon ties, and then robbed. I could give other examples. However the point is that I believe these tactics have been expanded beyond exclusively targeting criminals.
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Old 03-21-2012, 19:48   #14
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I used to believe that was the case. However I had an opportunity to serve on my county Grand Jury and heard 500-600 cases in a 6 month period.

In that period, yes...we heard cases where the "victim" was involved in drugs. We also heard cases where the victim was targeted because they were illegal immigrants.

However we also heard cases where the victims were not criminals. An elderly couple that were invaded by men with POLICE on their shirts, etc...who were subsequently restrained with nylon ties, and then robbed. I could give other examples. However the point is that I believe these tactics have been expanded beyond exclusively targeting criminals.
Oh, don't misunderstand me. I know home invasions happen to good people too (heck, I prepare myself for that very possibility). I was just saying that on the average (at least local to me) the parties involved are dopers.
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Old 03-21-2012, 19:54   #15
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Oh, don't misunderstand me. I know home invasions happen to good people too (heck, I prepare myself for that very possibility). I was just saying that on the average (at least local to me) the parties involved are dopers.
Understand. But back on the question at hand,
With home invaders posing as law enforcement more and more often, what are you prepared to do if you question the validity and legitimacy of a person or persons at your door in uniform?
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Old 03-21-2012, 19:58   #16
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Understand. But back on the question at hand,
With home invaders posing as law enforcement more and more often, what are you prepared to do if you question the validity and legitimacy of a person or persons at your door in uniform?
I'll admit I've got a bit of an advantage being a LEO in a rural area and knowing all the others. However, I second the notion of calling 911 to verify identity. The same holds true for traffic stops.
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Old 03-21-2012, 20:03   #17
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I'll admit I've got a bit of an advantage being a LEO in a rural area and knowing all the others. However, I second the notion of calling 911 to verify identity. The same holds true for traffic stops.
Would LEOs be tolerant of such an action? If you're serving a warrant, bang on the door, get told that resident is calling 911, would the police stand down and wait?
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Old 03-21-2012, 20:07   #18
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Would LEOs be tolerant of such an action? If you're serving a warrant, bang on the door, get told that resident is calling 911, would the police stand down and wait?
If my dispatchers informed me the resident was on the phone verifying my identity, I'd ask them to do so and advise me immediately when it was done. Homeowner's not getting much time after that.

Of course, if I hear a toilet flushing repeatedly, all bets are off.

Last edited by rockapede; 03-21-2012 at 20:08..
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Old 03-21-2012, 20:45   #19
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And what is it you want to do?
Something other than "never talk to the police" or "never open your door for police" or any other such nonesense.
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Old 03-21-2012, 21:10   #20
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Something other than "never talk to the police" or "never open your door for police" or any other such nonesense.

can you be any more specific and less obtuse?
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