[alphaalpha1]

I have a quick question that may even turn into a debate of legality. I live in SF, and I am an avid shooter. I am sick of going to the range and having these range nazi pigs( FL is full of them) breathing down my neck making you feel you shouldn't be shooting your gun at the range. I have shot my weapon in rural areas with no problem( I will not state them) , but I would just like to know if it legal to walk around in the evrgl parks ( now that it is legal to possess firearms in these parks) with your firearm unloaded until you find a nice safe place to shoot with a solid back-stop.

[racer88]

First, I'm curious about these "range nazis" you speak of. I'm not sure I understand your comments that they make you feel like you shouldn't be firing your gun at the range. It's simply nonsensical. Breathing down your neck? I've been to about three ranges in S. Florida, and I've never seen anything like that. Where are you exactly? Which ranges?

I don't know the statutes that may apply, but I'd bet anything that if you start firing a gun in a national park (assuming you meant Everglades National Park by your shorthand) you're going to be in a bit of trouble.

[alphaalpha1]

Originally Posted by racer88

First, I'm curious about these "range nazis" you speak of. I'm not sure I understand your comments that they make you feel like you shouldn't be firing your gun at the range. It's simply nonsensical. Breathing down your neck? I've been to about three ranges in S. Florida, and I've never seen anything like that. Where are you exactly? Which ranges?

I don't know the statutes that may apply, but I'd bet anything that if you start firing a gun in a national park (assuming you meant Everglades National Park by your shorthand) you're going to be in a bit of trouble.

Well judging from your response, I take it that you might not live in South Florida. My description of a "range nazi" is ROs who:

-Dont know **** about firearms and how to handle them safely, but are quick to correct you while handling your weapon CORRECTLY and SAFELY. ( dont even ask, I dont always have explanations for people's stupidity)
- Some kid Breathing down your neck ( standing 2 feet behind me)constantly giving you "tips" on how to handle the weapon.
- Who drill you,If you fire 2 shoots in less than 5 secs.( cmon , 1 shot every 5 secs for my pistol)
- who have a snobby, ****ty attitude like they know more than anyone who walks into their establishment.

I can continue, unless you think I am making this "nonsensical" stuff up. Ok, you have been to 3 ranges, and...? I am not in the business of bashing people's establishment, so I would not list the ranges that I refer to, but can gladly email you the names of them.

[Bruce M]

Sorry I'm confused. You are asking if it is legal to have an unloaded gun in the Everglades presumably where you are going to shoot or are you asking if it is legal to open carry in the Everglades?

[PhantomF4E]

You can shoot in the Everglades if they don't catch you . I was told by Fish and Wildlife , no lead in the Everglades National Park unless you are hunting. There is no target practice in the park allowed any longer. Private property may be another issue but I would consult before you get arrested, fined and confiscated .

[PhantomF4E]

PS If you are fishing in the park you can OC in fact the Law in Florida simply states open carry is permitted while fishing. I would not try it in your neighborhood lake or canal but that law is in 790.
Also carrying in the park is legal loaded or unloaded.

[racer88]

Originally Posted by alphaalpha1

Well judging from your response, I take it that you might not live in South Florida. My description of a "range nazi" is ROs who:

-Dont know **** about firearms and how to handle them safely, but are quick to correct you while handling your weapon CORRECTLY and SAFELY. ( dont even ask, I dont always have explanations for people's stupidity)
- Some kid Breathing down your neck ( standing 2 feet behind me)constantly giving you "tips" on how to handle the weapon.
- Who drill you,If you fire 2 shoots in less than 5 secs.( cmon , 1 shot every 5 secs for my pistol)
- who have a snobby, ****ty attitude like they know more than anyone who walks into their establishment.

I can continue, unless you think I am making this "nonsensical" stuff up. Ok, you have been to 3 ranges, and...? I am not in the business of bashing people's establishment, so I would not list the ranges that I refer to, but can gladly email you the names of them.

I've lived in south Florida for 20 years. Palm Beach County, specifically. In all the ranges I've been to, I've not encountered any "range nazis."

By "nonsensical," I wasn't referring to you. Rather I was referring to the statement: "range nazi pigs( FL is full of them) breathing down my neck making you feel you shouldn't be shooting your gun at the range."

It's nonsensical in that it makes no sense for a an RO to discourage customers from using the range as intended... for firing guns.

You said south Florida is full of these ROs. In all my years I've not encountered them. Now... as for the sales counter staff, I've definitely encountered some real idiots.

I once wanted to look at a SCAR-16S, when they first came out. The sales guy said, "Well, at $2700, they're not flying off the shelves." Then he turned his back on me! Literally turned 180 degrees and stood there with his back to me. Not that it should matter (no salesman should ever assume anything)... but, he failed to notice the watch I was wearing was worth many times the price of the rifle.

But, I've never had a guy "breathe down my neck" at a range. I've never had an RO give me unsolicited advice. And, most ranges I've been to have a rule against rapid fire, defined as more than one shot per second.

It occurs to me to ask you if these ROs were doing the same thing to other shooters? Or was it mostly you? Honest question.

Here in Palm Beach County, unfortunately, there is virtually no place you can shoot on public lands. Furthermore, there isn't an outdoor range anywhere nearby (more than an hour away in any direction). It sucks!

[alphaalpha1]

Originally Posted by racer88

I once wanted to look at a SCAR-16S, when they first came out. The sales guy said, "Well, at $2700, they're not flying off the shelves." Then he turned his back on me! Literally turned 180 degrees and stood there with his back to me. Not that it should matter (no salesman should ever assume anything)... but, he failed to notice the watch I was wearing was worth many times the price of the rifle.


It occurs to me to ask you if these ROs were doing the same thing to other shooters? Or was it mostly you? Honest question.

I have encountered similar problems with various salesmen at gun stores. e.g I asked the guy to see a bushmaster acr. He reluctantly handed me the gun, and when i started to manipulate the weapon( look down the sights, charge the charging handle etc.) he said " dont do that". Now how the hell am I suppose to fork out 2k on a gun that I cant even get a feel for.

Honestly, the RO did seem to take particular attention to me as opposed to the other shooters, but I couldn't really speak for their experience at that point. I did some research, and it appears many people have that problem at the place I speak of.


Furthermore, not to get off topic, this thread has led me to believe that I cant shoot out there in the Glades. I dont understand why though, because it is legal to have it in your possession while camping, hiking etc. why not to discharge in a safe place far from any houses and city limits. If anyone has anymore info on this topic, please shed light on it.

[PzGren]

Alphaalpha 1,

you are referring to Markham Park and the other state-operated facility off hwy41, right? I have occasionally used Markham Park and had an equally unpleasant experience.

If you want a little leeway, I recommend Big Al's in Pembroke Park. Once in a while there is also a shoot in Homestead. There are also get togethers from the guys at Florida Shooters Network.com, which has a SoFlo sub-section.

[SgtThumper]

Pembroke Gun range west of 95 on pembroke road is a great range. I also avoid mark ham park at all costs unless I'm gonna shoot my AR15.

[alphaalpha1]

Originally Posted by PzGren

Alphaalpha 1,

you are referring to Markham Park and the other state-operated facility off hwy41, right? I have occasionally used Markham Park and had an equally unpleasant experience.

If you want a little leeway, I recommend Big Al's in Pembroke Park. Once in a while there is also a shoot in Homestead. There are also get togethers from the guys at Florida Shooters Network.com, which has a SoFlo sub-section.

Yes, I had quit an unpleasant experience there, among other places. I never went to Big Al's in Pembroke Park, but I will check it out this weekend. I will check out the shoot and the forum you are talking about, thanks.

[The_Gun_Guru]

Originally Posted by racer88

First, I'm curious about these "range nazis" you speak of. I'm not sure I understand your comments that they make you feel like you shouldn't be firing your gun at the range. It's simply nonsensical. Breathing down your neck? I've been to about three ranges in S. Florida, and I've never seen anything like that. Where are you exactly? Which ranges?

Markham Park!!!!

HATE IT!!!!

Originally Posted by alphaalpha1

Well judging from your response, I take it that you might not live in South Florida. My description of a "range nazi" is ROs who:

-Dont know **** about firearms and how to handle them safely, but are quick to correct you while handling your weapon CORRECTLY and SAFELY. ( dont even ask, I dont always have explanations for people's stupidity)
- Some kid Breathing down your neck ( standing 2 feet behind me)constantly giving you "tips" on how to handle the weapon.
- Who drill you,If you fire 2 shoots in less than 5 secs.( cmon , 1 shot every 5 secs for my pistol)
- who have a snobby, ****ty attitude like they know more than anyone who walks into their establishment.

I can continue, unless you think I am making this "nonsensical" stuff up. Ok, you have been to 3 ranges, and...? I am not in the business of bashing people's establishment, so I would not list the ranges that I refer to, but can gladly email you the names of them.

So true!

I know exactly what you speak of - state-run ranges SUCK!!!!

Originally Posted by PhantomF4E

You can shoot in the Everglades if they don't catch you . I was told by Fish and Wildlife , no lead in the Everglades National Park unless you are hunting. There is no target practice in the park allowed any longer. Private property may be another issue but I would consult before you get arrested, fined and confiscated .

^ THIS!


TGG (also in South FL)

[beariedog]

I also shoot at Pembroke gun range, never had a problem.

[Sendarr]

I'm not in SF, but here in Tampa, I don't think I've ever seen an RO at the local range lol

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[racer88]

Okey-doke! Markam Park is off my list. Never went there. But, had considered it, as it's one of the few outdoor ranges in the area.

BTW, I don't see any issue with naming businesses that treat customers poorly. That is one of the GREAT powers of the internet. I'm also a business owner. The internet can be a positive or negative... depending on how you treat your customers.

As long as negative reviews are based in truth, posting them does a great service for other consumers. And, arguably, it does a service for the business owner - if he or she cares enough to rectify the situation and learn and grow from the experience.

PS... OH! Markam Park is gov't-run?? Well then... no surprise, no mystery, and no chance of it getting better. DEFINITELY off my list!

[Ford302Glock21]

I knew markham park would show up based on my experiences. I was profiled by the range nazis there as a young know nothin punk at 25 years old(I do generally look younger than my age). That was 5 or 6 years back. Everytime I shot there I brought my rifle or rifles in zipped cases and action open and was with my uncle who is a cop down south.

They gave me a hard time on entry but once they realized I was not a punk and followed the rules they layed off. In their defense the last time I was there they had a bullet hole in the ro office behind the firing line. I'm glad they are all on peoples asses because there's always some genius trying to handle a firearm when range is cold.

On the flipside the best public range for me in central fl is 45 minutes from me for 100 yards and the ro's are usually friendly and helpful but not always too bright. Sometimes they go help someone sight in a rifle or go down range when its cold and work on stands. So who is watching the line to make sure nobody is handling or even stealing arms? Ill take the nazis

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[SiberianErik]

I just shot out in the Everglades Nat'L park off our airboat last weekend :0

Granted we were wayyyyyyyy out in the middle of nowhere so no probs. If I see another airboat in the area it is usually just other private boats and not the heat..

As far as ranges, here in PBC..I never see any RO's at all. they usually use some half *****ed video system

[alphaalpha1]

Originally Posted by racer88

Okey-doke! Markam Park is off my list. Never went there. But, had considered it, as it's one of the few outdoor ranges in the area.

BTW, I don't see any issue with naming businesses that treat customers poorly. That is one of the GREAT powers of the internet. I'm also a business owner. The internet can be a positive or negative... depending on how you treat your customers.

As long as negative reviews are based in truth, posting them does a great service for other consumers. And, arguably, it does a service for the business owner - if he or she cares enough to rectify the situation and learn and grow from the experience.

PS... OH! Markam Park is gov't-run?? Well then... no surprise, no mystery, and no chance of it getting better. DEFINITELY off my list!

I logically agree with what you are saying, but I also try to put myself in the business owners' shoes if I can. We have established that Markham Park is unpleasant, so let me just set the warning for "Aces indoor shooting range" as well. No need to say more.

[racer88]

Originally Posted by alphaalpha1

I logically agree with what you are saying, but I also try to put myself in the business owners' shoes if I can. We have established that Markham Park is unpleasant, so let me just set the warning for "Aces indoor shooting range" as well. No need to say more.

Speaking as a business owner, if I had employees running customers OFF, I'd surely want to know about it... even if it hurts to see it online. I'd rectify the situation both at the business and respond to it online. Doing that can be tremendously helpful to a business. People like to see a positive response to any issues.

[PzGren]

Originally Posted by Ford302Glock21

I knew markham park would show up based on my experiences. I was profiled by the range nazis there as a young know nothin punk at 25 years old(I do generally look younger than my age). That was 5 or 6 years back. Everytime I shot there I brought my rifle or rifles in zipped cases and action open and was with my uncle who is a cop down south.

They gave me a hard time on entry but once they realized I was not a punk and followed the rules they layed off. In their defense the last time I was there they had a bullet hole in the ro office behind the firing line. I'm glad they are all on peoples asses because there's always some genius trying to handle a firearm when range is cold.

On the flipside the best public range for me in central fl is 45 minutes from me for 100 yards and the ro's are usually friendly and helpful but not always too bright. Sometimes they go help someone sight in a rifle or go down range when its cold and work on stands. So who is watching the line to make sure nobody is handling or even stealing arms? Ill take the nazis

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I hear you. Safety is an issue, no doubt - but how it is enforced is an issue, a big issue.

I am a little bit older than you and have been involved in range work for a long time. I was R.O. and shooting teacher in the military and on private ranges, it is how you enforce safety and respect people that makes a difference. Not just for safety and acceptance of rules but also for pure pleasantness.

While I personally had no real problem at Markham Park, the way safety is enforced does not delight me. And the hole in the R.O. office shows a weak spot, despite their tough behaviour..

I can do without "Nazis", on and off the range.

[faawrenchbndr]

The only issues I had at Markham was one of the ROs decideded he
would handle my M1 Garand. It was cleared, flagged, with chamber open.
He actually picked it up from the rack. I jumped in his **** & asked
what was he doing. He stated he needed to inspect the weapon to ensure
it was cleared. I told him that's what the yellow chamber flag was for
amd to heep his paws of my rifles. He apologized, I never had any other
issues at Markham. I went there once a week for a few years.

Big All's is a great range......gets HOT in the afternoon.
Pembroke Gun Range, also a good range, also gets HOT.
Florida Gun Center,.....great range.
Aces Gun Range,.....great range!
Trailglades,.....a bit like Markham but MUCH better staff.

[The_Gun_Guru]

Originally Posted by Ford302Glock21

In their defense the last time I was there they had a bullet hole in the ro office behind the firing line.

You think that was an ND?

That was probably a pissed-off patron with bad aim (since we didn't hear about it on the local news).

I am working on getting my FFL so I can start a business and I know that your customers are your bread and butter.....so don't piss them off!

Markham Park Shooting Range hasn't had my business for at least the past FIFTEEN (15) YEARS!!!!!!

TGG

[PPinesRon]

Originally Posted by faawrenchbndr

Big All's is a great range......gets HOT in the afternoon.
Pembroke Gun Range, also a good range, also gets HOT.
Florida Gun Center,.....great range.
Aces Gun Range,.....great range!
Trailglades,.....a bit like Markham but MUCH better staff.

Haven't tried Big Al's, but I agree with the others. Bass Pro Shops in Dania Beach is good also, though always seems to be crowded, except for mid-week. I also took a trip to Pop's, liked it (a bit "rustic" for some, ok by me), and will be trying it out later, after my Europe trip. I'd like to know if Bass Pro Shops in Miami-Dade has a range & if they do, if it's any good.

[Hdoc]

Also make sure it's a National Park and not a FWS wildlife
refuge ( there are dozens in Florida sometimes contiguous with a park). Shooting in one of those will put some serious hurt on you. And completely understandable IMO.

[faawrenchbndr]

Forgot about Pop's,.....great place, very minimalistic.
They had some big name instructors teaching Carbine Classes
the Lady running the joint screwed that up rather badly.
Most refuse to ever return under the current Ownership.

Sucked cause I was VERY close to there, may have been a 10 min drive