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Old 04-05-2012, 14:45   #1
bigmoney890
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DPMS Oracle for first AR?

I have recently decided to venture into AR15's after a long debate with both of my parents. Not because they are against guns, they both were career military, but because of the type of AR I would be getting and the amount of money I was going to spend on one. Naturally they dont want me to drop all of my savings on a rifle so we made a deal since we will be shooting as a family. We decided the gun has to be a reliable entry AR that would do it's job on the range allowing me to get the fundamentals of shooting rifles down before I drop 1k+ on a high level AR. I would have gone with a Spikes Tactical Entry carbine but they are backordered from my Local Gun Store without any idea when they will be in.

So I put down a deposit on a DPMS Oracle instead. I have heard nothing but good things from people who own them and nothing but bad things from people who own the upper echelon rifles like colt, daniels defense, and rock river. With that being said, i would only like opinions from people who actually own, have owned, have personally fired this weapon. You aren't going to change my mind, so don't bother trying.

Only after I become proficient with shooting/handling an AR my family as a whole will venture into 3 gun competitions. Naturally we will probably chose a higher quality battle tested AR for this, but until then, I need to learn the basics with this gun. Now, i've been stalking different AR forums on the do's and dont's of AR's. Wolf/Cheap surplus ammo is a no-no for most. But I need to learn to shoot and at this time and cannot afford to spend the money on the amount of good ammo that it will take to become proficient. So I will be buying bulk wolf ammo until I can send a few thousand rounds down range. Now before you say anything, this is strictly a range gun, as I use my Glock for HD. I would never dare rely on cheap quality surplus ammo to save my life. But as far as range use, I think cheap surplus ammo is just fine. I would like to know are there any legitimate concerns/problems surrounding this rifle or using cheap wolf ammo with it. Like i previously stated, I would like to keep the replies to people with personal first hand experience.

Thanks so much for reading my extremely long post, and any help would be very much appreciated!!

EDIT: As I can already see that my learning to shoot is going to come into question, both of my parents have always qualified expert and sharpshooter with the m16 and pistol respectively. My mother actually holds the record for the M4 at the range at the United States Training Center, Blackwater at the time she broke the record. So i'm in good hands as far as learning to shoot goes.

Last edited by bigmoney890; 04-05-2012 at 14:55..
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Old 04-05-2012, 15:00   #2
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The people who actually know about the "legitimate" problems you should look out for are not going to reply, because you told them not to. Because they dont own a DPMS oracle. You dont need to own one to know. There are extremely well rounded AR guys on this board that have hundreds of hours on ranges, classes, law enforcement qualifications.............etc with real experience with all different brand AR's. Enjoy your new rifle, shoot the snot out of it and if you run into a problem upgrade the part.
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Old 04-05-2012, 15:05   #3
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I was referring to malfunctions/failures that people that own(ed) DPMS have had. And if anyone can offer a non-biased opinion as to any problems that this rifle has had then feel free to respond. Not a few rifles here and there, but a broad estimate of the Oracle line. As far as wolf ammo, i suspect that no one would recommend it, but again, anyone who wants to chime in on a reason that it shouldn't be used for simple range time, I would love to hear why. No sarcasm or smartass-ness intended folks, i'm being sincere

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Old 04-05-2012, 15:10   #4
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I would not recommend it. There is no reason to buy a ****ty AR just because it is 'your first'. Just buy one of known quality for around $1k and then build on it from there or buy a second or third etc. If you want to 'plink' at the range to merely go BANG BANG BANG! then get a 10/22 as the gun & ammo both will be cheaper and probably give you less headaches.

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Old 04-05-2012, 15:11   #5
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Originally Posted by Javelin View Post
I would not recommend it. There is no reason to buy a ****ty AR just because it is 'your first'. Just buy one of known quality for around $1k and then build on it from there or buy a second or third etc. If you want to 'plink' at the range to merely go BANG BANG BANG! then get a 10/22 as the gun & ammo both will be cheaper and probably give you less headaches.

Thanks for your opinion, but i would not consider this a ****ty riffle, just a barebones version. Thanks again for your input.
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Old 04-05-2012, 15:27   #6
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So... You want input but don't want to listen when someone gives it to you?

Also, how old are you that all our decisions have to be debated with your parents?
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Old 04-05-2012, 15:30   #7
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So... You want input but don't want to listen when someone gives it to you?

Also, how old are you that all our decisions have to be debated with your parents?
I dont want people without firsthand knowledge to spout off what they think without proof.

And im at the age that i still respect what my parents think and want them to be apart of my shooting/learning. If you dont like it, leave.

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Old 04-05-2012, 15:31   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmoney890 View Post
Thanks for your opinion, but i would not consider this a ****ty riffle, just a barebones version. Thanks again for your input.
Anytime.

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Old 04-05-2012, 15:38   #9
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And im at the age that i still respect what my parents think and want them to be apart of my shooting/learning. If you dont like it, leave.
There is no age where you shouldn't do that.
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Old 04-05-2012, 15:40   #10
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There is no age where you shouldn't do that.
Thank you sir, I didnt mean to imply that I would ever stop, was just trying to make a point.
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Old 04-05-2012, 15:43   #11
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Originally Posted by bigmoney890 View Post
Thanks for your opinion, but i would not consider this a ****ty riffle, just a barebones version. Thanks again for your input.
No, Javelin is right in his description. It isn't just "bare bones", it's put together with substandard parts, substandard testing, and substandard ethics. These have nothing to do with the features of the rifle, but the quality of the build. For the price, if you just want a "bare bones" rifle, you can get a PSA or S&W M&P Sport, and both are far superior rifles than anything DPMS puts out. They're also probably cheaper.

"bare bones" doesn't have to mean "bad quality", but in this case, it is.
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Old 04-05-2012, 15:48   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmoney890 View Post
I dont want people without firsthand knowledge to spout off what they think without proof.

And im at the age that i still respect what my parents think and want them to be apart of my shooting/learning. If you dont like it, leave.

First hand knowledge with DPMS,......did not end well!
They replaced the entire rifle after trying to fix a FTF issue
for seven months! After recipt of the new one, I sold it.

DPMS is a low quality AR15. I would not recommend it, for a
first, second,.............or tenth AR15. There are MUCH
better choices!

Save a bit more & purchase a QUALITY rifle and not a POS!
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Old 04-05-2012, 15:49   #13
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No, Javelin is right in his description. It isn't just "bare bones", it's put together with substandard parts, substandard testing, and substandard ethics. These have nothing to do with the features of the rifle, but the quality of the build. For the price, if you just want a "bare bones" rifle, you can get a PSA or S&W M&P Sport, and both are far superior rifles than anything DPMS puts out. They're also probably cheaper.

"bare bones" doesn't have to mean "bad quality", but in this case, it is.
Thanks for the input. So simply as an AR for learning to shoot and putting 5000+ rounds down range and getting 100% comfortable with, you would stay away from this? I dont want to spend the extra money on a higher quality AR at this time and put a ton of rounds through it just learning how to shoot. Seems like a bit of a waste to buy a nice riffle and dump an excessive amount of cheap surplus ammo through it in the name of learning.
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Old 04-05-2012, 15:51   #14
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I do not own an Oracle but I do have a DPMS AP4 in 5.56. So far it goes bang when I pull the trigger, just like my other firearms. I have had it almost 4 years, no problems. I am not an "operator" so I don't grind it in the mud, subject it to conditions and usage that would cause me to break first, or have to clear rooms with it. It shoots, is accurate enough for me (in other words, more accurate than I can be), and since it has never done anything other than fire when I pull the trigger I would feel comfortable grabbing it for a "bump in the middle of the night" situation. I do not regret the purchase.

That said, knowing what I know now, I would seriously consider doing a build of sorts-- buy a complete upper with lower parts kit and a stripped lower. I have come to realize that this is the most cost effective way to get into ARs. My next AR purchase will be done this way.

Bottom line though, you'll probably be perfectly happy with the DPMS. Happy Shooting!
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Old 04-05-2012, 15:52   #15
bigmoney890
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Originally Posted by faawrenchbndr View Post
First hand knowledge with DPMS,......did not end well!
They replaced the entire rifle after trying to fix a FTF issue
for seven months! After recipt of the new one, I sold it.

DPMS is a low quality AR15. I would not recommend it, for a
first, second,.............or tenth AR15. There are MUCH
better choices!

Save a bit more & purchase a QUALITY rifle and not a POS!
Thanks for your input as well. Im glad to see some firsthand knowledge with the rifle. I have the option to change my deposit towards a different gun if i choose, so if a spikes tactical is in stock when im done paying off the oracle i will get that rifle instead. But can anyone give me another option for $620 OTD complete ready to roll rifle?
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Old 04-05-2012, 15:53   #16
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Old 04-05-2012, 15:55   #17
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Originally Posted by ratf51 View Post
I do not own an Oracle but I do have a DPMS AP4 in 5.56. So far it goes bang when I pull the trigger, just like my other firearms. I have had it almost 4 years, no problems. I am not an "operator" so I don't grind it in the mud, subject it to conditions and usage that would cause me to break first, or have to clear rooms with it. It shoots, is accurate enough for me (in other words, more accurate than I can be), and since it has never done anything other than fire when I pull the trigger I would feel comfortable grabbing it for a "bump in the middle of the night" situation. I do not regret the purchase.

That said, knowing what I know now, I would seriously consider doing a build of sorts-- buy a complete upper with lower parts kit and a stripped lower. I have come to realize that this is the most cost effective way to get into ARs. My next AR purchase will be done this way.

Bottom line though, you'll probably be perfectly happy with the DPMS. Happy Shooting!
Thanks for your input, Im betting that this gun will meet my needs just fine, nothing more, nothing less. But I am still looking for other options. I like to fully explore all the possibilities before i purchase, that's why I put a deposit down instead of buying outright.
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Old 04-05-2012, 16:23   #18
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Get your deposit back. Palmetto State Armory.
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Old 04-05-2012, 16:28   #19
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Originally Posted by bigmoney890 View Post
Thanks for your input, Im betting that this gun will meet my needs just fine, nothing more, nothing less. But I am still looking for other options. I like to fully explore all the possibilities before i purchase, that's why I put a deposit down instead of buying outright.
Honestly, seriously consider doing a build. Your parents, who you respect and whose opinion you value, are concerned about how much money you could sink into this purchase. I understand this-- I have a 23 year old son who has discovered that he really enjoys shooting as do his 2 best friends and it would be real easy for him to spend every last cent on guns right now. Our shooting together is something that is a great source of quality time. So, let me enumerate why I think you should do a build:

1--Cost. It really does come out to be more cost effective for dollar to quality ratio. This would make your parents happy and they would proudly proclaim to their friends how wise you are with your money (and without out and out saying it, "see how well we have taught our son regarding wise expenditures of money.") Also, their respect for your decision making abilities goes way up and they will worry less about future choices you will make. (I am very serious on this point, really.)

2--Relationship. You value your parents, you love them, they love you, and you both want to enjoy this together. Do a build. Putting it together can become family time.

3--Knowledge. Doing a build will make you intimately familiar with your weapon. This is a very good thing.

4--Accomplishment. I do not know your age, but there is something that seems to say 20-something (sorry if I have missed badly, I am working with a 10 year time frame for being right, though.) A gun is not a casual purchase, you are putting thought into this and seeking advice. (Some of which around here can seem awfully brutal at times.) In the end with this gun you'll be able to say "This is my rifle." As opposed to "This is the rifle I bought." There is a difference between the two and it is not slight.

There, a long response to your long original post. Hope that this makes some sense for you. Shoot long and prosper!
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Old 04-05-2012, 16:33   #20
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If you PM me I will send you a copy of this word doc. that explains all the ins and outs of the AR15. It explains the reason you want certain features and why they are important. The selection below is just a small snippet of the end of the word doc. I would like to say that Good quality is worth saving a few dollars more.

"Brands that follow All, or Almost All of these “Mil-Spec” guide lines are as follows;

Colt model “6920”
BCM model “M4”
Daniel Defense model “M4-XV”
Noveske model “N4”
LMT model “M4”
Spike’s Tactical model “ST-15 M4-LE”

Brands that follow Most of these “Mil-Spec” guide lines are as follows;

Smith & Wesson model “M&P 15”
Sabre Defense model “90244”
Armalite model “M15A4”
CMMG model “M4”
Stag model “1”

Brands that follow very few of these “Mil-Spec” guide lines, and should be avoided, are as follows;

Remington
Bushmaster
Rock River
Del-Ton
Olympic Arms
Charles Daly
Ruger
American Spirit Arms
Alexander Arms
Superior arms
DPMS

These manufactures, for the most part, produce good-quality firearms. Good enough for the average user. They are for the person who only shoots a few times a year.

Also keep in mind that even though companies like; LWRCI, Knight, Magpul, H&K, FN, & VLTOR do not make an AR15 that meets “Mil-Spec”, they do manufacture high quality firearms that will stand up to hard use."


At least let me send you the word doc. so you can be more informed. Have fun with what ever you buy.

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