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Old 04-05-2012, 16:35   #21
bigmoney890
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Originally Posted by ratf51 View Post
Honestly, seriously consider doing a build. Your parents, who you respect and whose opinion you value, are concerned about how much money you could sink into this purchase. I understand this-- I have a 23 year old son who has discovered that he really enjoys shooting as do his 2 best friends and it would be real easy for him to spend every last cent on guns right now. Our shooting together is something that is a great source of quality time. So, let me enumerate why I think you should do a build:

1--Cost. It really does come out to be more cost effective for dollar to quality ratio. This would make your parents happy and they would proudly proclaim to their friends how wise you are with your money (and without out and out saying it, "see how well we have taught our son regarding wise expenditures of money.") Also, their respect for your decision making abilities goes way up and they will worry less about future choices you will make. (I am very serious on this point, really.)

2--Relationship. You value your parents, you love them, they love you, and you both want to enjoy this together. Do a build. Putting it together can become family time.

3--Knowledge. Doing a build will make you intimately familiar with your weapon. This is a very good thing.

4--Accomplishment. I do not know your age, but there is something that seems to say 20-something (sorry if I have missed badly, I am working with a 10 year time frame for being right, though.) A gun is not a casual purchase, you are putting thought into this and seeking advice. (Some of which around here can seem awfully brutal at times.) In the end with this gun you'll be able to say "This is my rifle." As opposed to "This is the rifle I bought." There is a difference between the two and it is not slight.

There, a long response to your long original post. Hope that this makes some sense for you. Shoot long and prosper!
Thanks for your input, and you have made some very good points. The only thing that i am concerned about with a build is that they are soooooo many possible combinations that im afraid i will never make a choice on which parts to use, and when i do, im almost sure to second guess myself. But i will definitely look into a build!
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Old 04-05-2012, 16:37   #22
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Originally Posted by Wolf Spyder View Post
If you PM me I will send you a copy of this word doc. that explains all the ins and outs of the AR15. It explains the reason you want certain features and why they are important.

"Brands that follow All, or Almost All of these “Mil-Spec” guide lines are as follows;

Colt model “6920”
BCM model “M4”
Daniel Defense model “M4-XV”
Noveske model “N4”
LMT model “M4”
Spike’s Tactical model “ST-15 M4-LE”

Brands that follow Most of these “Mil-Spec” guide lines are as follows;

Smith & Wesson model “M&P 15”
Sabre Defense model “90244”
Armalite model “M15A4”
CMMG model “M4”
Stag model “1”

Brands that follow very few of these “Mil-Spec” guide lines, and should be avoided, are as follows;

Remington
Bushmaster
Rock River
Del-Ton
Olympic Arms
Charles Daly
Ruger
American Spirit Arms
Alexander Arms
Superior arms
DPMS

These manufactures, for the most part, produce good-quality firearms. Good enough for the average user. They are for the person who only shoots a few times a year.

Also keep in mind that even though companies like; LWRCI, Knight, Magpul, H&K, FN, & VLTOR do not make an AR15 that meets “Mil-Spec”, they do manufacture high quality firearms that will stand up to hard use."



Have fun with what ever you buy.

pming you now! And it's strange to see that companies like Bushmaster and Remington dont follow mil-spec since they both supply weapons to the military.
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Old 04-05-2012, 16:55   #23
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Mil-Spec 11595E - Barrel Steel
In the case of the barrel, the specification is MIL-B-11595E or "Bar, Metal and Blanks, Steel (Under 2 Inches in Diameter) for Barrels of Small Arms Weapons". Note that this specification calls for a specific Chemical Composition in the make-up of the barrel. The three acceptable barrel materials are; ORD 4150, ORD 4150 Resulfurized, & ChomeMoly-Vanadium. Very important is the barrel steel material. This (CMV) steel is a Mil-Spec steel used in the USGI M16 family of rifles; it is stronger and will last longer than the typical barrels offered in the commercial market. The Mil-Spec grade steel gets its’ additional strength and rigidity from an increase in carbon and/or vanadium in the alloy. This will offer increased barrel life and performance through use in all types of extreme environments and temperatures.
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Old 04-05-2012, 16:57   #24
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Originally Posted by bigmoney890 View Post
pming you now! And it's strange to see that companies like Bushmaster and Remington dont follow mil-spec since they both supply weapons to the military.
Bushmaster & Remington don't supply ARs to the military. The military however purchases Silencers from AAC (Remington owned subsidiary) and bolt action 700 platforms.. but that's about it.

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Last edited by Javelin; 04-05-2012 at 17:01..
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Old 04-05-2012, 16:57   #25
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Originally Posted by bigmoney890 View Post
Thanks for your input, and you have made some very good points. The only thing that i am concerned about with a build is that they are soooooo many possible combinations that im afraid i will never make a choice on which parts to use, and when i do, im almost sure to second guess myself. But i will definitely look into a build!
Don't think in terms of buying every last little part separately, find a good, reputable kit. Just buying a simple AR completely built has so many permutations that the mind boggles.
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Old 04-05-2012, 17:02   #26
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Bushmaster & Remington don't supply to the military.

The military doesnt use the ACR?
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Old 04-05-2012, 17:02   #27
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And FWIW we are just trying to help you out. Many of us have been there and some of us have bought only to regret. I'll help anyone with advice that isn't going to name call with AR-Snobbery comments. Truth is there is quality and then there is less-than-quality and it is very apparent especially in the higher round counts and service life of the firearm and with the price difference of a couple hundred bucks right now there really is no reason to go with the lower grade weapon.

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Old 04-05-2012, 17:04   #28
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The military doesnt use the ACR?
Nope. SCAR-17s are the only "new" weapon still on order with SOCOM. The military even had to drop contracts on the SCAR-16 due to financial constraints.

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Old 04-05-2012, 17:08   #29
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I have no first hand knowledge but have just recently started my first AR build(assembly) after doing a lot of research and combing through these forums for a couple of months also.

The reason I did not look at a DPMS/Olympic/Bushmaster/etc. was the general consensus among objective posters was that these companies are too inconsistent in their quality control. The chances of getting a lemon seem to but much higher.

As many have recommended, it seems to be for a lower cost entry level AR that has a much better chance of being a good quality rifle, to go with a S&W Sport or Palmetto State Armory(PSA).

I believe the S&W have a lifetime warranty also and people that had problems were pleased with S&W's diligence in fixing their issues.

This is what I've observed. Take it for what you will.

I narrowed my choices down to buying a S&W Sport or building one on a PSA lower. I chose to build for the fun of it.

By the way, kudos to you for respecting and seeking your parents opinion.



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Old 04-05-2012, 17:08   #30
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And FWIW we are just trying to help you out. Many of us have been there and some of us have bought only to regret. I'll help anyone with advice that isn't going to name call with AR-Snobbery comments. Truth is there is quality and then there is less-than-quality and it is very apparent especially in the higher round counts and service life of the firearm and with the price difference of a couple hundred bucks right now there really is no reason to go with the lower grade weapon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Javelin View Post
Nope. SCAR-17s are the only "new" weapon still on order with SOCOM. The military even had to drop contracts on the SCAR-16 due to financial constraints.

And i appreciate any help that anyone is willing to share, as long it is as non-biased as possible

And I was unaware of that fact with the Scars. It's too hard to keep up with all of the stuff that the military does!
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Old 04-05-2012, 17:11   #31
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bigmoney890

Keep in mind some here giving you their opinions/advice are LEO,
active or retired military. I've been shooting the M16/AR15 since 1985.
There is a crap load of experince here. As an old fart to a young 'en
LISTEN to those whom have more experience than you do.
Personally, I could care less, if you want a DPMS, great, buy one.
However it's like this, a good DPMS is great, but a bad one is a PITA!

Good luck with your search for your first AR......
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Old 04-05-2012, 17:11   #32
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Originally Posted by michael_b View Post
The reason I did not look at a DPMS/Olympic/Bushmaster/etc. was the general consensus among objective posters was that these companies are too inconsistent in their quality control. The chances of getting a lemon seem to but much higher.


By the way, kudos to you for respecting and seeking your parents opinion.



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That makes a lot more sense as to why I cannot find a consistent yes or no on these types or rifles, and thanks for your input.

And what can I say, I'm a military brat raised to respect my elders. A quality that is lacking in todays times!
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Old 04-05-2012, 17:15   #33
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bigmoney890

Keep in mind some here giving you their opinions/advice are LEO,
active or retired military. I've been shooting the M16/AR15 since 1985.
There is a crap load of experince here. As an old fart to a young 'en
LISTEN to those whom have more experience than you do.
Personally, I could care less, if you want a DPMS, great, buy one.
However it's like this, a good DPMS is great, but a bad one is a PITA!

Good luck with your search for your first AR......

And again, thanks for you're input! Im starting to realize that DPMS generally makes a good product. And it will probably suit my needs just fine, IF i get one that works. So I will be searching other options out there.

Like i previously state, I would love to go with the Spikes Tactical Entry carbine. Anyone have opinions on it?!
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Old 04-05-2012, 17:19   #34
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Originally Posted by bigmoney890 View Post
And again, thanks for you're input! Im starting to realize that DPMS generally makes a good product. And it will probably suit my needs just fine, IF i get one that works. So I will be searching other options out there.

Like i previously state, I would love to go with the Spikes Tactical Entry carbine. Anyone have opinions on it?!
I just can't take the company seriously. I guess because they make $40 fake suppressors.

http://www.spikestactical.com/new/z/...-can-p-44.html

They are probably a good company but I don't do fake.

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Old 04-05-2012, 17:34   #35
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I just can't take the company seriously. I guess because they make $40 fake suppressors.

http://www.spikestactical.com/new/z/...-can-p-44.html

They are probably a good company but I don't do fake.

Ha that's understandable, but everyone around here are Spike's Fanboys. Plus I like all of their 'custom' lower receivers.
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Old 04-05-2012, 17:37   #36
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Ha that's understandable, but everyone around here are Spike's Fanboys. Plus I like all of their 'custom' lower receivers.
I like their roll marks on their receivers too. Always been a SpiderCo fan.

POF makes an even better roll mark IMHO.

Black Rifle Forum

Noveske GENII monolithic lowers are also really neat with the flared magwell

Black Rifle Forum
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Old 04-05-2012, 17:42   #37
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Im a sucker for the pirate lower

http://www.spikestactical.com/new/z/...ngs-p-564.html
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Old 04-05-2012, 17:43   #38
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Then I suggest grabbing one, buy a DD parts kit and get a quality complete upper (DD, BCM, LMT, etc) and put it together yourself with a Youtube video.

Takes like an hour tops. Then your quality rifle will be truly yours exactly as you want it.

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Old 04-05-2012, 17:44   #39
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Indeed, I also looked at a used Noveske yesterday, Cerakote in Coyote tan with a troy industries alpa rail. Expensive as hell though.

And back to original topic, Anyone want to shed light on Wolf as a strictly range ammo with a strictly range gun?
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Old 04-05-2012, 17:46   #40
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Then I suggest grabbing one, buy a DD parts kit and get a quality complete upper (DD, BCM, LMT, etc) and put it together yourself with a Youtube video.

Takes like an hour tops. Then your quality rifle will be truly yours exactly as you want it.


That's looking more and more like the route i'll go
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