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Old 04-07-2012, 10:32   #1
robhic
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Why Pepper Spray?

Expanding on (instead of hi-jacking..) the pepper spray thread down lower, I just considered starting to carry PS and this comes at a good time.

What are your reasons for carrying it? My decision was based, partly, while thinking about the dreaded Trayvon Martin case. Pepper spray would have , IMO, been a good "next step" before going for the ultimate step and shooting.

Of course, no one at this time has ALL the info and evidence, but it got me thinking. Stand your ground OR (better) move away from the scene. If that can't be done safely, if the unarmed BG is getting the best of you, would PS have been a good intermediate step? Your opinions, please.

Before shooting, if Martin had gotten a good dose of PS in his eyeballs things might have turned out differently. Or not, we don't really know at this time. But it made me think. So what are your reasons / motivation for carrying PS?

I'm sure Al Sharpton and Rev. Jesse HATE it because it would cut down on the cases where they get to find a camera and give one of their oh-so-neutral "speeches" and therefore their income. But for everyday citizens with no agenda except saving their hides, is PS a good option? And why? Thanks in advance to all.
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Old 04-07-2012, 11:36   #2
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Why? Because there's a vast area between the time to talk and the time to shoot.
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Old 04-07-2012, 12:00   #3
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Why? Because there's a vast area between the time to talk and the time to shoot.
well said
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Old 04-07-2012, 12:26   #4
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Pepper spray is great when someone telegraphs that they are going to attack you.

Cold Steel Inferno is wicked though, stuff makes your throat swell from the atomized black pepper.

I would ask LEO how they like their pepper spray and what they prefer the best. My guess is Fox 5.3 or Sabre Red. I've seen some LEO's with Cold Steel Inferno
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Old 04-07-2012, 12:58   #5
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I much rather carry a taser than pepper spray. When you spray everyone is affected by it.

Not only that but there is a percentage of people that pepper spray does not affect.
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Old 04-07-2012, 13:04   #6
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But for everyday citizens with no agenda except saving their hides, is PS a good option? And why? Thanks in advance to all.
I think so, yes. Absolutely.

It can, in some cases, effectively neutralize a threat all by itself.

Even on a less-effected individual there is a good chance that it will negatively effect them and at least give you a little bit of an advantage. You might be able to use that advantage to successfully run away or fend off your attacker.

It will not seriously harm the person. It it extremely unlikely to lead to any actual injury, just discomfort. It is thus a MUCH lower force level than a weapon such as a firearm, knife, or blunt object (kubaton, baton, bat, cane, or even your fist).

It is legal to carry in the majority of places that are off limits to deadly weapons per state law(s).
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Old 04-07-2012, 13:08   #7
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I much rather carry a taser than pepper spray. When you spray everyone is affected by it.

Not only that but there is a percentage of people that pepper spray does not affect.
Do you have a Taser? Do you have any experience with a Taser? Have you ever carried a taser?

Tasers are expensive. And big. And if you miss with your one shot, then what?
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Old 04-07-2012, 13:16   #8
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Pepper spray is great when someone telegraphs that they are going to attack you.

Cold Steel Inferno is wicked though, stuff makes your throat swell from the atomized black pepper.

I would ask LEO how they like their pepper spray and what they prefer the best. My guess is Fox 5.3 or Sabre Red. I've seen some LEO's with Cold Steel Inferno
I think lot of LEOs will say they dislike pepper spray because it invariably gets all over the place.

But a lot of LEOs use it differently than a private citizen would. They might use it to help gain control of a suspect. They (or their buddies) are likely to have to handle the person afterwards.

There is also a good chance that they will have other, alternative tools available. A trained LEO can use a baton and not have it be lethal force. They may have a Taser. They probably have backup on the way. They might have backup already present.

If you want to know more than that you'll have to ask some LEOs
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Old 04-07-2012, 13:29   #9
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Of the possible "non-lethal" weapons that could be used for defensive carry, I would prefer to have the right to legally an asp (collapsable baton).

All a civilian needs is to prevent injury to him/herself until the police arrives.
Arrest or detention is not a rational, well though-out option IMO.
We don't get paid to catch the B/G's, the cops do.

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Old 04-07-2012, 13:36   #10
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Of the possible "non-lethal" weapons that could be used for defensive carry, I would prefer to have the right to legally an asp (collapsable baton).
That can be problematic. A baton may well be deemed lethal/deadly force, and injury to the attacker is a very real possibility.

An ASP is also larger and more difficult to carry + quite a few places have laws against doing so. In your case it sounds like a baton is not legal, so it isn't even a choice worth discussing.



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All a civilian needs is to prevent injury to him/herself until the police arrives.
...while using no more force than is necessary, justified, and legal. The loud mouth drunk who wants to beat your ass for "bumping into him" on the sidewalk might justify a face full of OC and a quick escape, but he might not justify you breaking his arm or leg with an ASP. And if things happen FAST in the heat of the moment and you end up striking him in the head you could be in trouble, depending.

Of course, I won't argue with the deterrent effect you might get by backing away while snapping the ASP out to full length and shouting "GET BACK!"


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Arrest or detention is not a rational, well though-out option IMO.
We don't get paid to catch the B/G's, the cops do.
Absolutely correct.





I'm not saying pepper spray is always the best option. It isn't. Nothing is always the best option. But I do firmly believe it is a better and more carry-able option than the other choices, and that it will be the best option within the non-lethal force category, for most people, most of the time.
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Old 04-07-2012, 13:38   #11
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A TASER would be a great option. If only they were smaller/pocketable. Less expensive would be nice too.
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Old 04-07-2012, 13:42   #12
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Think about flash mobs and Riginald Denny and you will understand.

The isssue I have is finding the right size and spray top.

Right now I have a .75 oz in my front pocket. The top is the kind where you push the red piece to the side so that you can push down and use it.

I also have a 2 oz size - this is for bags and car - it is large and needs a holster if you are going to carry it. The top is great - you put your thumb under the saftey and push down.

If anyone knows of a 1 oz. size with the 2 oz top - please let me know.

Bear spray is an option for those hard to reach areas.
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Old 04-07-2012, 14:04   #13
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Think about flash mobs and Riginald Denny and you will understand.

The isssue I have is finding the right size and spray top.

Right now I have a .75 oz in my front pocket. The top is the kind where you push the red piece to the side so that you can push down and use it.

I also have a 2 oz size - this is for bags and car - it is large and needs a holster if you are going to carry it. The top is great - you put your thumb under the saftey and push down.

If anyone knows of a 1 oz. size with the 2 oz top - please let me know.

Bear spray is an option for those hard to reach areas.
For me the 2oz size does not require a holster. They are larger than what most people would be willing to pocket, though.

I've looked all around at everything I could. What you are asking for does not seem to exist.

A 1-1.25oz or so, flip top, stream pattern canister about 1" in diameter...from one of the reputable manufacturers...would be pretty sweet.
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Old 04-07-2012, 14:46   #14
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I carry a 2-oz flip-top cannister of Fox Labs PS. I like having the option of a "force continuum."

If I'm accosted by a drunken college boy, I surely don't want to fight H2H. Of course, I would try to avoid / walk away whenever possible. But, I don't want my only option to be the all-or-nothing proposition of drawing a pistol vs. not drawing and getting my ass whipped old-school-style. I like having PS as an option to just put him on his knees, and I walk away. Bye-bye drunk guy. We both get off "easy."
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Old 04-07-2012, 15:39   #15
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Guns protect you from getting killed, PS can protect your ass from gettingkicked. It's always good to have a non-leathal option with you. Also, there areplaces you can't carry guns, but PS is okay.
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Old 04-07-2012, 17:08   #16
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$20 can you have is better than $500 taser you don't.

If used properly it can buy you some time to beat feet. Most don't really desire to continue after taking a shot in the eyes.

If you get the kind with the marking dye it may help with suspect ID later.

Can clear a room nicely.
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Old 04-07-2012, 17:13   #17
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Originally Posted by robhic View Post
Expanding on (instead of hi-jacking..) the pepper spray thread down lower, I just considered starting to carry PS and this comes at a good time.

What are your reasons for carrying it? My decision was based, partly, while thinking about the dreaded Trayvon Martin case. Pepper spray would have , IMO, been a good "next step" before going for the ultimate step and shooting.

Of course, no one at this time has ALL the info and evidence, but it got me thinking. Stand your ground OR (better) move away from the scene. If that can't be done safely, if the unarmed BG is getting the best of you, would PS have been a good intermediate step? Your opinions, please.

Before shooting, if Martin had gotten a good dose of PS in his eyeballs things might have turned out differently. Or not, we don't really know at this time. But it made me think. So what are your reasons / motivation for carrying PS?

I'm sure Al Sharpton and Rev. Jesse HATE it because it would cut down on the cases where they get to find a camera and give one of their oh-so-neutral "speeches" and therefore their income. But for everyday citizens with no agenda except saving their hides, is PS a good option? And why? Thanks in advance to all.
Not every human being has the same reaction to irritants and pain. In the M/Z case the best deterrent would have been to not get out of the car. Once someone is attempting to smash your head into something (for me) itís not a time to test their resistance. When used outside, depending on the wind direction and strength, you can end up with enough to be blinded as well. In an enclosed place like an elevator or something of the sort, not a very good idea.

I believe pepper spray would be acceptable to be used on a drunk that wonít back off after being ordered to do so (if you donít believe he poses a deadly threat), a dog that has started to charge you when there are other people around or is attacking your dog.

The one time my sister used her pepper spray the wind blew some of it on her, it was NOT good!

.
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Old 04-07-2012, 17:14   #18
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Thanks to all for the info. This pretty much, with the exception of the Taser , was along the lines of my reasoning for carrying PS.

I think Sam Spade gets the award for most concise and precise answer. There IS a lot of time (hopefully...) between the time to talk and the time to shoot. My thoughts exactly.

Dealing with an a-hole and especially a drunken a-hole isn't a reason to deploy a gun. PS would (hopefully...) affect him just enough to head in the other direction! It's certainly not a shootin' situation.

And it would be good to fend off a dog without having to shoot it -- I saw a couple of cops try to put down a Pitt bull and miss!

I think I will carry a small PS on me and another, larger one in the vehicle. Thanks again for all the good info.
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Old 04-07-2012, 18:13   #19
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I think I will carry a small PS on me and another, larger one in the vehicle. Thanks again for all the good info.
Be careful with the vehicle. Pepper spray canisters aren't really meant to get extremely hot or extremely cold. Most are labeled with instructions against exposure to temperatures in excess of 100-120*F. The last one I looked at was 120* but it seems like some were lower...just can't remember
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Old 04-07-2012, 18:24   #20
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I'm fully in support of carrying pepper spray in addition to a gun. You can carry it pretty much anywhere, and it offers an extra option of force between lethal force and being unarmed.

I live in a college town, so there's no shortage of drunks who might decide they want a fight. I'm not the type who has time and effort to waste on brawling with some drunken idiot, and a gun is usually excessive in this situation, so why not just spray the idiot and let him roll around feeling sorry for himself?

It's really extreme to advocate using lethal force for every confrontation, or to assume you'll always make every right decision to avoid anything other than a situation where lethal force is called for.

That isn't to say that Pepper spray is a viable alternative to lethal force either. As far as I'm concerned, once someone draws a weapon, they've taken the option of pepper spray off the table for themselves.
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