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Old 04-07-2012, 11:22   #1
Ruble Noon
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Kraft Drops Conservative Lobbying Group Over Voter ID, stand your ground

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/kraf...r-ground-laws/
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Old 04-07-2012, 11:27   #2
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Won't be buying Kraft.
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Old 04-07-2012, 11:38   #3
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Won't be buying Kraft.
Try Sargento.
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Old 04-07-2012, 11:38   #4
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Won't be buying Kraft.
Add me to that list.
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Old 04-07-2012, 11:50   #5
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No more Kraft here.
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Old 04-07-2012, 12:30   #6
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Try Sargento.
Hell, I like Sargentos better anyway.
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Old 04-07-2012, 13:07   #7
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I don't buy many Kraft products anyway so it'll be easy to cut them completely out.
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Old 04-07-2012, 14:37   #8
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Voter I.D. is a good idea. But the stand your ground law is just dumb. Like it or not, it should have been written by someone who actually knew how to write a law that was not going to play into the hands of left-wing extremist. It should not have been so stupidly titled. But given that it was written to play to particular political interest and not to actually address a real need, it was titled as it was titled. Now... everyone gets to live with the extremely bad results.
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Old 04-07-2012, 14:40   #9
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ID should be required ta vote.'08.
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Old 04-07-2012, 15:49   #10
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Voter I.D. is a good idea. But the stand your ground law is just dumb. Like it or not, it should have been written by someone who actually knew how to write a law that was not going to play into the hands of left-wing extremist. It should not have been so stupidly titled. But given that it was written to play to particular political interest and not to actually address a real need, it was titled as it was titled. Now... everyone gets to live with the extremely bad results.

So you don't have a problem throwing us under the bus? The enemies we have in our ranks.

**** the left wing extremists.

Stand your ground is a term the media gave it. It's nothing more than an extention of Castle Doctrine that removes the duty to retreat when defending yourself if you are in a place you have a right to lawfully be. Sometimes there isn't a retreat option.
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Old 04-07-2012, 15:55   #11
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And I shouldn't have to. If my property, person or family is being threatened then it's within my power to do what I can to protect them. Not run away. That only empowers the predators. Police can't always be there at the drop of a hat. My .45 can.
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Old 04-07-2012, 16:14   #12
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I like my Mac & Cheese so it is not going anywhere out of my house.

Are Coke & Pepsi on the boycott list as well with everyone who is boycotting Kraft?
I could give up Diet Coke & Diet Pepsi, but not the sugary stuff

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Old 04-07-2012, 16:46   #13
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Old 04-07-2012, 17:01   #14
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I like my Mac & Cheese so it is not going anywhere out of my house.

Are Coke & Pepsi on the boycott list as well with everyone who is boycotting Kraft?
I could give up Diet Coke & Diet Pepsi, but not the sugary stuff
Homemade is better anyway.
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Old 04-07-2012, 19:12   #15
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Buy some cheddar, some milk, some generic macaroni noodles and make your own Mac'N'Cheese. Cheaper and tastier.
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Old 04-07-2012, 20:18   #16
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As odd as it sounds I prefer the dang Kraft blue boxed mac & cheese over any other. With lots of salt and milk in it. I know, it's weird
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Old 04-07-2012, 21:14   #17
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But the stand your ground law is just dumb. Like it or not, it should have been written by someone who actually knew how to write a law that was not going to play into the hands of left-wing extremist. It should not have been so stupidly titled.
The Florida law you are talking about is titled Chapter 776 Justifiable Use of Force. It was the public and the press who dubbed it "stand your ground law", not the legislator who wrote it.

The text of the law says "A person [...] has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force [...]". What exactly do you think is wrong with that sentence, and how would you phrase it better?
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Old 04-07-2012, 21:33   #18
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As odd as it sounds I prefer the dang Kraft blue boxed mac & cheese over any other. With lots of salt and milk in it. I know, it's weird
Ditch the processed food and save it for your SHTF supplies. You'll thank me for it someday.
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Old 04-07-2012, 21:39   #19
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Ditch the processed food and save it for your SHTF supplies. You'll thank me for it someday.
I won'y be able to make it without milk so after the SHTF it will be useless

Besides Dec 21st we all die anyways

Honestly I am not a prepper so I am all about the now!

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Old 04-08-2012, 05:54   #20
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So you don't have a problem throwing us under the bus? The enemies we have in our ranks.

**** the left wing extremists.

Stand your ground is a term the media gave it. It's nothing more than an extention of Castle Doctrine that removes the duty to retreat when defending yourself if you are in a place you have a right to lawfully be. Sometimes there isn't a retreat option.
I am not impressed with the law. It's that simple. I do not consider that everyone needs to go running around with a gun on their hip or in their pocket quivering in fear that someone might rob them, etc., etc., etc. I think the law was written to gain political support not address a real and present danger.

Duty to retreat? Only a absolute complete fool would not seek to remove themselves from a altercation. I can see no being expected to seek to leave if you are in your home. I cannot see someone thinking they can just pull a gun and blast someone simply because that person got in their face and made them "afraid." That's the psuedologic now being used by a killer to excuse his killing a boy walking home with a bag of candy and a drink. It just doesn't wash at all.
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Old 04-08-2012, 05:59   #21
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And I shouldn't have to. If my property, person or family is being threatened then it's within my power to do what I can to protect them. Not run away. That only empowers the predators. Police can't always be there at the drop of a hat. My .45 can.
Should... shouldn't are irrelevant. If you think killing a man is no big deal, then you have no business with a weapon at all. There is not hardly any property imaginable that one could be justified killing over. Person or family member is not property.

Predator? No. The correct word is "criminal." The use of "silly words" only makes one appear less than intelligent.

Some folks live with a Chicken Little mentality. The run around the barnyard looking over their shoulder thinking the sky is about to fall... or a crime is about to occur... at the drop of a hat. That is not real life. And those who want to run around acting like Doc Holiday 2.0 should not be surprised when everyone else looks at them as see them as someone who is bizarre.
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:03   #22
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The Florida law you are talking about is titled Chapter 776 Justifiable Use of Force. It was the public and the press who dubbed it "stand your ground law", not the legislator who wrote it.

The text of the law says "A person [...] has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force [...]". What exactly do you think is wrong with that sentence, and how would you phrase it better?
The phrase "Stand your ground law" has been used by both sides in the debate about the Fla. law in question. It would appear that each side wants to use a descriptive phrase rather than the plain vanilla "Chapter 766 Justifiable Use of Force." If this law allows a man to stalk another man, initiate a confrontation with that man and then kill that man, then that law should be immediately removed from the books.
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:08   #23
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Meh... I'm not sure I like corporations having influence in elections any more than I like unions having a say.
Simple answer. Congress needs to pass legislation declaring that corporations are not persons under the law and that money is not speech. Just because the supreme court got it wrong doesn't mean the supreme court's error should be allowed to stand.

Strip corporations of any participation in the electoral process period. And strip away the use of money as speech. Severely restrict the use of money in politics... so that no one can use large contributions bundled from overseas (China, etc.) or from individuals (Sores, Koch, etc.) or from organized political groups (Emily's List, AARP, NRA, NOW, etc.).
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:34   #24
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The phrase "Stand your ground law" has been used by both sides in the debate about the Fla. law in question. It would appear that each side wants to use a descriptive phrase rather than the plain vanilla "Chapter 766 Justifiable Use of Force." If this law allows a man to stalk another man, initiate a confrontation with that man and then kill that man, then that law should be immediately removed from the books.
Yeah it has exceptions for initial aggressors. 776.041, Fla. Stat. (2011). So what? It's a good law and as a CWP holder in Florida I support it. You're doing that whole safety vs liberty test and coming up on the side of safety. That's alright, but I think in this case you're mistaken.

Some states and countries put obligatory duties on the person to retreat before using any force. Some countries and states (cough New York cough) place an affirmative obligation to retreat from YOUR OWN HOME. If you fail to comply with this obligation, then you can be held liable. The Florida law clearly relieves a person of the affirmative obligation to retreat if they are in their home, their car, or at their place of employment. It also has provisions that allow a person who is lawfully in a location to meet force with force.

Chapter 776 also clearly creates a presumption for home invasion cases. It's basically the Castle Doctrine spelled out. It says that when someone breaks into your home and you know they aren't supposed to be there, and you are inside the home, then there is a legal presumption in your favor that you reasonably feared for your life or great bodily injury or harm.

The requirement to use lethal force = reasonable fear of death or great bodily injury or harm. Essentially this means that if someone breaks in you have a legal presumption that immediately authorizes deadly force. This authorization of deadly force is established solely by their breaking into your dwelling. In many states people lawfully defend themselves in their own home and still go to jail and get sued. We also have civil immunity for anyone who is deemed to have used lawful self defense. The bad guy's family cannot sue you, you are immune.

My point is that our laws are just fine thank you very much.
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:39   #25
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Should... shouldn't are irrelevant. If you think killing a man is no big deal, then you have no business with a weapon at all. There is not hardly any property imaginable that one could be justified killing over. Person or family member is not property.

Predator? No. The correct word is "criminal." The use of "silly words" only makes one appear less than intelligent.

Some folks live with a Chicken Little mentality. The run around the barnyard looking over their shoulder thinking the sky is about to fall... or a crime is about to occur... at the drop of a hat. That is not real life. And those who want to run around acting like Doc Holiday 2.0 should not be surprised when everyone else looks at them as see them as someone who is bizarre.
Spoken by someone who hasn't had any experience with "criminals" and is truly naive and ignorant. Yes "predator" is the correct moniker. To think otherwise is what's foolish.
Most here don't run around with a "chicken little" mentality, however, we also don't plop our heads in the sand and pretend just because we live in a nice neighborhood that the scary men won't be able to get us.
Should and shouldn't are absolutely relevant. The fact you don't think they are says a lot.
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