[BLACK Z]

Hi, About 2 Years ago we switched from the 180 GR Hydro Shocks which I liked to the 165 Gr Gold Dot. I shot the 180's better then I do the 165's. Just wondering how everyone feels about these two rounds Pros and cons and which would you carry if you had a choice? Thanks

I have a four or five hundred rounds of each, but Have to carry the 165's now.

P.S these are in a 4th Gen Glock 22.

[9mmParabellum]

You will be able to control the heavier bullet the light weights are more snappy.

[NEOH212]

In .40 the heavier bullets have always been softer shooting than the lighter ones in my opinion.

The Hydra Shok is a classic non bonded hollow point round. It's core and jacket are separate and are kind of pressed together. These type of bullets tend to expand a little easier but also tend to shed their jackets when passing through tough barriers. Some have claimed that the Hydra Shok has issues of not wanting to reliably expand. I don't know if this is true or not. The Hydra Shok is a older bullet design. That's not to say there is anything wrong with it though.

The Gold Dot is a bonded round. This means the jacket and core are chemically etched (bonded) together. This makes the bullet more resistant to fragmenting on impact and tends to hold together a little better through tough barriers. Some say the bonded rounds don't expand as well as non bonded rounds but that's opened for debate as my experience as well as the experiences of others has not shown such.

The Gold Dot is a modern bullet design.

It all comes down to what you want your bullet to do. For a Duty round, I would take the Gold Dot over the Hydra Shok any day. For that matter, I'll take the Gold Dot's period!

I either carry Speer Gold Dot or Ranger T series in my guns. There is other good ammo out there but these two bullet designs have been used in many shootings and have proven themselves over the years. There isn't any doubt that some of the other new bullet designs will prove themselves in the years to come but I'll stay with I know works until then.

[1canvas]

the Gold Dot 165grn runs kind of hot but its a newer tech than the old Hydra Shok. the GD also has a great street track record and probably more tested than any other pistol round.

[dkf]

I'd rather carry the 165 GD hands down over the 180 HS.

[BLACK Z]

I guess it's just one of those things about not liking change, the hydras and it may just be the grain diff seem to shoot nicer, I wish we carried the 180 Gr rounds. The hydras seem to have done better when ever I had to put a animal down on the job.

[DRT]

See attached file for comparison of .40 bullets:

180gr HST vs 165gr Gold Dot vs 165gr Ranger T series

Given that I live in a cold climate, it's 180gr HST vs 165gr Ranger T for me.

Given that you live in NY, I'd highly recommend that you push for the 180gr HST (not any hydrashok or 165gr GD) as your duty round.

[BLACK Z]

DRT thats the first time I have seen a pic of the gold dot not expanding more, and your one of the first to here that they don't like most do.

I would like to see more shots into the denim wondering if that was does a fluke.

[bear62]

Very complicated decisions to make ...... at least for me. I've used .40 caliber for self defense for years and have gone from heavy to ultra light. Too bad there's not a clear answer.

For now 165 gr Gold Dots are my choice for my G23, G27.

Stay out of harm's way gunnie friends .......

[1canvas]

I have seen plenty of testing done on the Gold Dot 165grn by ATK and other reputable ballistic labs over the years and have full confidence in that bullet to expand properly for a controlled expanding bullet. I believe the GD was never designed to expand radically but to be a controlled expanding bullet with a desired balance of expansion, penetration, and no fragmenting. if someone is looking for a bullet that has a lot of expansion a RangerT or HST would probably be a better choice. I use the 165 GD for a woods round.

[PghJim]

Originally Posted by BLACK Z

DRT thats the first time I have seen a pic of the gold dot not expanding more, and your one of the first to here that they don't like most do.

I would like to see more shots into the denim wondering if that was does a fluke.

It has been true with every GD I have ever tested through denim. Speer's poster shows poor peformance in the IWBA column, at least in my opinion.

http://le.atk.com/pdf/GoldDotPoster.pdf

I cannot find the link or attach the file for HST, but it is much better.

[PrecisionRifleman]

Speer makes a 180gr Gold Dot JHP.... that's also what I carry in my G23..

[Glockbuster]

There is a lot of truth in many posts above about Gold dots not expanding as much as some of the other rounds in just about any caliber. We ran a test last saturday with a friend in .45 cal and the Ranger T showed much greater expansion than the Gold dot same weight. But that's to be expected of bonded bullets, the expansion is more controlled.

[cowboy1964]

Originally Posted by PghJim

It has been true with every GD I have ever tested through denim. Speer's poster shows poor peformance in the IWBA column, at least in my opinion.

http://le.atk.com/pdf/GoldDotPoster.pdf

I cannot find the link or attach the file for HST, but it is much better.

Here ya go:
http://le.atk.com/pdf/HSTInsertPoster.pdf

In IWBA HSTs, like the Gold Dots, also expand noticeably less yet only penetrate about the same as bare gel or slightly more. That's kind of strange. Gold Dots will give more penetration. I would hardly call it "poor performance".

Tnoutdoors9's SIM-TEST testing uses the IWBA 4-layer denim method.

[PghJim]

Poor choice of words, "poor performance". I just meant to say that it expands less than the non bonded bullets through denim. Too many dead people to call it poor performance.

[fortyofforty]

Well, if the 1970s attack, I will lose sleep over performance through denim. Otherwise, I'm perfectly happy with Gold Dots. I'll take bonded over non-bonded any day.

[PghJim]

Originally Posted by fortyofforty

I'll take bonded over non-bonded any day.

That is an interesting statement, why?. A Winchester guy who puts on demonstrations told me the only reason he would use a bonded version over the T-series is if he had to shoot through glass. He thought the T-series is a much better design for personal defense. I like HST's, which are not bonded, and give better expansion through clothing, not just IWBA.

Except for the glass, what am I missing?

[fortyofforty]

Originally Posted by PghJim

That is an interesting statement, why?. A Winchester guy who puts on demonstrations told me the only reason he would use a bonded version over the T-series is if he had to shoot through glass. He thought the T-series is a much better design for personal defense. I like HST's, which are not bonded, and give better expansion through clothing, not just IWBA.

Except for the glass, what am I missing?

In many law enforcement situations I work around automobiles, and if I have to shoot anyone during an arrest there is a better than good chance that person will be either inside a vehicle or hiding behind one. Or, I might be seated inside a vehicle myself and have to shoot outside. For that reason I prefer a bonded round that can hold together penetrating windshields, and vehicle doors and other thin metal pieces.

[PghJim]

Originally Posted by fortyofforty

In many law enforcement situations I work around automobiles, and if I have to shoot anyone during an arrest there is a better than good chance that person will be either inside a vehicle or hiding behind one. Or, I might be seated inside a vehicle myself and have to shoot outside. For that reason I prefer a bonded round that can hold together penetrating windshields, and vehicle doors and other thin metal pieces.

Sorry, I did not know you were an LEO. Yes, you should have a bonded bullet. I mean for the rest of us. Yes there is a possiblity of me having to shoot through glass, but I would say that it is pretty slim.

[fortyofforty]

Originally Posted by PghJim

Sorry, I did not know you were an LEO. Yes, you should have a bonded bullet. I mean for the rest of us. Yes there is a possiblity of me having to shoot through glass, but I would say that it is pretty slim.

No worries, PghJim. How could you know? (I don't really advertise it.) For many people a non-bonded round probably would expand a little better and serve them just as well.

[concretefuzzynuts]

Originally Posted by NEOH212

In .40 the heavier bullets have always been softer shooting than the lighter ones in my opinion.

The Hydra Shok is a classic non bonded hollow point round. It's core and jacket are separate and are kind of pressed together. These type of bullets tend to expand a little easier but also tend to shed their jackets when passing through tough barriers. Some have claimed that the Hydra Shok has issues of not wanting to reliably expand. I don't know if this is true or not. The Hydra Shok is a older bullet design. That's not to say there is anything wrong with it though.

The Gold Dot is a bonded round. This means the jacket and core are chemically etched (bonded) together. This makes the bullet more resistant to fragmenting on impact and tends to hold together a little better through tough barriers. Some say the bonded rounds don't expand as well as non bonded rounds but that's opened for debate as my experience as well as the experiences of others has not shown such.

The Gold Dot is a modern bullet design.

It all comes down to what you want your bullet to do. For a Duty round, I would take the Gold Dot over the Hydra Shok any day. For that matter, I'll take the Gold Dot's period!

I either carry Speer Gold Dot or Ranger T series in my guns. There is other good ammo out there but these two bullet designs have been used in many shootings and have proven themselves over the years. There isn't any doubt that some of the other new bullet designs will prove themselves in the years to come but I'll stay with I know works until then.

Awesome answer.

[hunter won]

The 165 grain Gold Dot is a hot round and has a good reputation in police shootings for one shot stops. I was issued the Federal Hydra Shok and put down injured deer with it. An OIS the bad guy was hit three times and two rounds exited. The Hydra Shok is an old design. The 180 grain Gold Dots have two well documented police shootings that caused many agencies to switch to different bullet weights 155 and 165.

[DRT]

The 180gr HST had no issues dealing with auto windshields or sheet steel while having superior performance through other intermediate barriers. With modern non-bonded designs like HST, the concern over maintaining bullet integrity is largely unfounded.

For those who aren't familiar with ballistics testing advancements since the 70's, here's the rationale regarding iwba 4 layer denim testing.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/tact...2/0604-02a.htm


Note that it was developed with support of a major LE agency. It also produced results that correlated quite well with actual OIS's.

[BLACK Z]

Hunter one what shooting's are you referring to?

[Glockbuster]

Originally Posted by hunter won

The 165 grain Gold Dot is a hot round and has a good reputation in police shootings for one shot stops. I was issued the Federal Hydra Shok and put down injured deer with it. An OIS the bad guy was hit three times and two rounds exited. The Hydra Shok is an old design. The 180 grain Gold Dots have two well documented police shootings that caused many agencies to switch to different bullet weights 155 and 165.

Could you expand a little on this please ? I know many PD's still carry anyone of the three weights but those that were caused to switch--what were they expecting to gain ? Are you referring to the shooting where the FBI was asked to chip in analyzing why the Gold Dots 180 gr. failed to stop the perp after several hits ? that perp was also hit by numerous .223's.