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Old 04-11-2012, 18:32   #26
czsmithGT
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Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk View Post
When someone, regardless of what color they are, busts you in the face, climbs on top of you and tries to beat the gooey center out of your skull against a sidewalk, and you shoot them before you black out, how is this wrong?
The thing is, how do you know that is the complete and accurate version of what happened?

Hopefully the jury will get enough evidence to decide.
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Old 04-11-2012, 18:34   #27
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there is no doubt that this will become a media spectacle, and not a trial as we know them
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Old 04-11-2012, 18:38   #28
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As a CWP holder in Florida, and a person involved intimately in the legal field, I respectfully dissent.

First of all, I would like to remind most GT PI posters that an arrest requires PC, but a conviction requires "beyond a reasonable doubt."

These figures cannot be quantified, but I will do my best.

Hunch = nothing
Reasonable Suspicion = hunch + something
Probable Cause = more than Reasonable Suspicion, but less than a preponderance (40%)
Preponderance = more likely than not...aka 51%
Reasonable Doubt = 85%ish.

Just because the state had PC to arrest doesn't mean they will ever come close to the "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard required in criminal cases.

GT Posters: Please google 776.041 of the Florida Statutes. It clearly outlines exceptions for initial aggressors (not saying zimmerman was initial aggressor). I'm saying that even if he was, he has legal defenses.
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Old 04-11-2012, 18:45   #29
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This isn't true.

The original prosecutor planned to present the case to a Grand Jury. He was replaced by the Florida Governor with a Special Prosecutor who decided to charge rather than present the case to a Grand Jury. That is not a wide margin, it is a difference in procedure by the State.
yes the original prosecutor was replaced midstream BUT apparently didnt see enough to bring charges yet or else they would have
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Old 04-11-2012, 18:56   #30
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Looks to me to be Marcia Clark II in the making....

Lotsa TV and instant fame, until the acquittal, the riots, and the pariah-ship .....

.
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Old 04-11-2012, 19:01   #31
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yes the original prosecutor was replaced midstream BUT apparently didnt see enough to bring charges yet or else they would have
I don't agree. He decided to go the grand jury route and had scheduled it. Therefore he decided he had enough to present a case to the grand jury. Going to the grand jury = bringing charges.
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Old 04-11-2012, 19:09   #32
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Looks to me to be Marcia Clark II in the making....

Lotsa TV and instant fame, until the acquittal, the riots, and the pariah-ship .....

.
She has a good reputation and had the case dropped in her lap by the Republican Governor. I see no reason, at this point, to be concerned about her handling of the case.
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Old 04-11-2012, 19:22   #33
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So you agree Travon was the aggressor? So then you'd have to agree it was self defense! Cause he had the ability to walk away. Yet he became the agressor there for gave up all rights to self defense!
Initially, Travon wasn't the aggressor. In fact, as of what I know, Zimmerman sought him out, chased him, then shot him after being physically beat by Travon. Therefore, to answer your question, I wouldn't say Travon was the aggressor but more liked provoked. He too had a right to defend himself. Zimmerman's actions were the behavior of an aggressor. He cased the young man down for what reason? Because he looked like he didn't belong in the neighborhood, and he wanted to play cops and robbers? Zimmerman did right by calling the police; however, he crossed the line by chasing and hunting down the young man.

I'm not sure what part of the county you're from... But in my neck of the woods chasing someone is an act of aggression and a threat. Therefore, be prepared to fight when you catch up with them as they have the right to protect themselves from possible danger.
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Old 04-11-2012, 19:26   #34
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there is no doubt that this will become a media spectacle, and not a trial as we know them
yep it already is, how many people have been killed since this took place?
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Old 04-11-2012, 19:32   #35
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Let me guess, if you are on a sidewalk with someone, and then decide to go back to your vehicle, and they jump you, bust you in the nose, and try to beat your brains out against the sidewalk, you will let them kill you with dignity, knowing you did the right thing?
Is that what really happened? If so, you're right.... I would've defended myself too. However, I'm sure your example is missing some facts. Also, please remember we're hearing a one sided story. I'm sure most of us lied after being caught with our hands in the cookie jar. I don't trust Zimmerman like I didn't trust OJ.
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Old 04-11-2012, 19:32   #36
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He got justice.

He was killed while unarmed after being confronted & assaulted. You call that justice??
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Old 04-11-2012, 19:33   #37
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He was killed while unarmed after being confronted & assaulted. You call that justice??
I suppose, jumping a guy going to his car, beating him about the head and then trying to crush his skull and being stopped is what you call unjust?

You hypocrite, you would defend yourself in a similar circumstance.
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Old 04-11-2012, 19:38   #38
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Stupid.

Holder needs to go to jail.
ditto
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Old 04-11-2012, 19:38   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk View Post
I suppose, jumping a guy going to his car, beating him about the head and then trying to crush his skull and being stopped is what you call unjust?

You hypocrite, you would defend yourself in a similar circumstance.
I don't think he would, he did vote for the girlieman POTUS
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Old 04-11-2012, 19:42   #40
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mt920

"then shot him after being physically beat by Travon. Therefore, to answer your question, I wouldn't say Travon was the aggressor but more liked provoked"

In the eyes of the law a perfect defense of Zimmerman- Travon agressor -whether provoked or not! There is no evidence that Zimmerman ever layed hands on Travon. Travon was seen not by just one person but two people( Reported tonight on Hanity) as being on top of Zimmerman! Travon didn't call 911, didn't stay away from Zimmerman , Zimmerman stopped following Travon but yet Travon comes back to where Zimmerman was! As I've said in other posts - when a prosecutor wants to find a law to charge they will. I'd love to know what the Proable Cause was to make the charge and if his lawyer is any good he require the DA to show that at the hearing.
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Old 04-11-2012, 19:59   #41
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I suppose, jumping a guy going to his car, beating him about the head and then trying to crush his skull and being stopped is what you call unjust?

You hypocrite, you would defend yourself in a similar circumstance.

I would not have assaulted an un armed man who was not threat to me.



Dude, the guy is in tape with 911 going after an unarmed man even after the 911 operator told him not to.
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Old 04-11-2012, 20:05   #42
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I would not have assaulted an un armed man who was not threat to me.



Dude, the guy is in tape with 911 going after an unarmed man even after the 911 operator told him not to.
a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing.

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Old 04-11-2012, 20:35   #43
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I would not have assaulted an un armed man who was not threat to me.
How does your dictionary define the word "assault"?
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Old 04-11-2012, 20:38   #44
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The charges.

http://www.sao4th.com/documents/AR-M...412_053049.pdf

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Old 04-11-2012, 20:44   #45
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How does your dictionary define the word "assault"?

'my' dictionary??


The man had a choice and he chose to confront an unarmed man(after being told not to) and ended up shooting him. He will go down and rightly so.
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Old 04-11-2012, 20:51   #46
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how will they ever be able to choose a jury for this trial. if you are on a jury that finds Z not guilty the NBP will put a bounty on your head and Al and Eric will hold a rally press conference to demonize the crackers and oreos on the jury, not to mention IRS audits for the rest of your life.

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Old 04-11-2012, 20:56   #47
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I welcome the news of Zimmerman's arrest with open arms. If we remove race and the fact that Zimmerman is a member of the CCW fraternity.
And if your aunt had balls she'd be your uncle.


Speak for yourself. The cops and the original prosecutor who all investigated the case found nothing.

Some people just didn't like that answer.

Zimmerman was where he was supposed to be, and doing what he was supposed to do.

The evidence is that Z was not chasing travon, he was returning to his truck and was jumped.

He was beaten to the ground and had a bloody head wound and nose and the back of his shirt was wet and covered with grass stains.

He had enough strength and presence of mine to extract his weapon and save his own life.

In the aftermath we had the media butchering 911 tapes to fabricate a racist mall ninja out of whole cloth where there was not one, and supplementing it by showing a picture of an 11 year old, and plastering it with references to Skittles, (like they're never consumed by anything but little kids and incapable of being bought, stolen or eaten by gang members, serial killers…just 8 year olds, unicorns and fluffy bunny rabbits while providing protection against bad character.

MEanwhile, Z cooperated with the police and told his story, and a witness was found to corroborate him.

It'll cost this poor guy 100k just to be found not guilty.

So, no, its not justice to indulge malicious politically motivated prosecution when none is appropriate.
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Old 04-11-2012, 20:57   #48
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Originally Posted by FLIPPER 348 View Post
'my' dictionary??


The man had a choice and he chose to confront an unarmed man(after being told not to) and ended up shooting him. He will go down and rightly so.
Confront=assault? I don't think so.
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Old 04-11-2012, 20:59   #49
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The crucial piece of information missing is exactly what happened in between the time that the two men were aware of each other, and the gun was fired.

I don't know what happened. Maybe there is a good guy in this, maybe not.

I was pretty sure that he would be charged. Too much publicity. There will be a trial, and a lot of information will come out. Some will ignore the evidence to continue to hold their own foregone conclusions about the incident, and regardless of the outcome, there will be outrage. We live in interesting times.

I maintain a very strict policy that for me to have to shoot anyone, would be the second worst thing that could happen to me. It's still number two on the list. I'll avoid it if possible. It's much more expensive than most of us realize.
Right on.

For me as an American with the right to carry a gun I do everything I can to keep clear of any situation where I may have to use it. Avoid trouble is my mantra. Walk away from conflict. And when I have my gun, never, ever get face to face with anyone, unless 100% unavoidable.


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Old 04-11-2012, 21:02   #50
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It'll cost this poor guy 100k just to be found not guilty.
Not to mention having to watch his back lest some of the frenzies come after him.
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