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Old 04-11-2012, 18:11   #21
DOC44
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I see why it took her so long to have the press conference and file charges on national TV. She looked like she had a full make over; hair, make up, outfit ... when you compare her today to earlier pix of her. She gonna be a TV star now.... and when she said, "let's prey for the Martin family." the light really came on.

On the other hand by charging Z it took the pressure off today and it appears to be much harder to get a conviction for second degree than man slaughter. He may walk after everything settles down in a year or two after the court case and appeals are over. If Z gets a good team of lawyers he's gonna be quite well off.... he might be able to afford a Glock or Karh or a Colt instead of a Kel Tec.

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Old 04-11-2012, 18:17   #22
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So you agree Travon was the aggressor? So then you'd have to agree it was self defense! Cause he had the ability to walk away. Yet he became the agressor there for gave up all rights to self defense!
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Old 04-11-2012, 18:18   #23
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I welcome the news of Zimmerman's arrest with open arms.
Based on what? The only eye-witness account I've heard of any of the altercation between Zimmerman and Martin is a guy who heard and saw Zimmerman screaming for help, on the ground, Martin on top of him. Instead of intervening, this guy ran into his place, called 911, and waited. Had this guy helped pull Martin off Zimmerman, this whole mess might have been avoided.
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Old 04-11-2012, 18:22   #24
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wow, one prosecutor doesnt charge but another decides second degree.....that is a wide margin,
This isn't true.

The original prosecutor planned to present the case to a Grand Jury. He was replaced by the Florida Governor with a Special Prosecutor who decided to charge rather than present the case to a Grand Jury. That is not a wide margin, it is a difference in procedure by the State.
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Old 04-11-2012, 18:27   #25
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I wonder if Zimmerman had been unarmed, and Martin had been 21 and legally armed with a pistol, would this be handled and viewed differently by all of us.

(Regardless of which of the two had ended up dead.)
Neither would have ended up dead. Martin would be alive and Zimmerman would not be in jail. That is my guess.
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Old 04-11-2012, 18:32   #26
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When someone, regardless of what color they are, busts you in the face, climbs on top of you and tries to beat the gooey center out of your skull against a sidewalk, and you shoot them before you black out, how is this wrong?
The thing is, how do you know that is the complete and accurate version of what happened?

Hopefully the jury will get enough evidence to decide.
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Old 04-11-2012, 18:34   #27
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there is no doubt that this will become a media spectacle, and not a trial as we know them
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Old 04-11-2012, 18:38   #28
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As a CWP holder in Florida, and a person involved intimately in the legal field, I respectfully dissent.

First of all, I would like to remind most GT PI posters that an arrest requires PC, but a conviction requires "beyond a reasonable doubt."

These figures cannot be quantified, but I will do my best.

Hunch = nothing
Reasonable Suspicion = hunch + something
Probable Cause = more than Reasonable Suspicion, but less than a preponderance (40%)
Preponderance = more likely than not...aka 51%
Reasonable Doubt = 85%ish.

Just because the state had PC to arrest doesn't mean they will ever come close to the "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard required in criminal cases.

GT Posters: Please google 776.041 of the Florida Statutes. It clearly outlines exceptions for initial aggressors (not saying zimmerman was initial aggressor). I'm saying that even if he was, he has legal defenses.
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Old 04-11-2012, 18:45   #29
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Originally Posted by czsmithGT View Post
This isn't true.

The original prosecutor planned to present the case to a Grand Jury. He was replaced by the Florida Governor with a Special Prosecutor who decided to charge rather than present the case to a Grand Jury. That is not a wide margin, it is a difference in procedure by the State.
yes the original prosecutor was replaced midstream BUT apparently didnt see enough to bring charges yet or else they would have
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Old 04-11-2012, 18:56   #30
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Looks to me to be Marcia Clark II in the making....

Lotsa TV and instant fame, until the acquittal, the riots, and the pariah-ship .....

.
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Old 04-11-2012, 19:01   #31
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yes the original prosecutor was replaced midstream BUT apparently didnt see enough to bring charges yet or else they would have
I don't agree. He decided to go the grand jury route and had scheduled it. Therefore he decided he had enough to present a case to the grand jury. Going to the grand jury = bringing charges.
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Old 04-11-2012, 19:09   #32
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Looks to me to be Marcia Clark II in the making....

Lotsa TV and instant fame, until the acquittal, the riots, and the pariah-ship .....

.
She has a good reputation and had the case dropped in her lap by the Republican Governor. I see no reason, at this point, to be concerned about her handling of the case.
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Old 04-11-2012, 19:22   #33
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mt920
So you agree Travon was the aggressor? So then you'd have to agree it was self defense! Cause he had the ability to walk away. Yet he became the agressor there for gave up all rights to self defense!
Initially, Travon wasn't the aggressor. In fact, as of what I know, Zimmerman sought him out, chased him, then shot him after being physically beat by Travon. Therefore, to answer your question, I wouldn't say Travon was the aggressor but more liked provoked. He too had a right to defend himself. Zimmerman's actions were the behavior of an aggressor. He cased the young man down for what reason? Because he looked like he didn't belong in the neighborhood, and he wanted to play cops and robbers? Zimmerman did right by calling the police; however, he crossed the line by chasing and hunting down the young man.

I'm not sure what part of the county you're from... But in my neck of the woods chasing someone is an act of aggression and a threat. Therefore, be prepared to fight when you catch up with them as they have the right to protect themselves from possible danger.
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Old 04-11-2012, 19:26   #34
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there is no doubt that this will become a media spectacle, and not a trial as we know them
yep it already is, how many people have been killed since this took place?
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Old 04-11-2012, 19:32   #35
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Let me guess, if you are on a sidewalk with someone, and then decide to go back to your vehicle, and they jump you, bust you in the nose, and try to beat your brains out against the sidewalk, you will let them kill you with dignity, knowing you did the right thing?
Is that what really happened? If so, you're right.... I would've defended myself too. However, I'm sure your example is missing some facts. Also, please remember we're hearing a one sided story. I'm sure most of us lied after being caught with our hands in the cookie jar. I don't trust Zimmerman like I didn't trust OJ.
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Old 04-11-2012, 19:32   #36
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He got justice.

He was killed while unarmed after being confronted & assaulted. You call that justice??
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Old 04-11-2012, 19:33   #37
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Originally Posted by FLIPPER 348 View Post
He was killed while unarmed after being confronted & assaulted. You call that justice??
I suppose, jumping a guy going to his car, beating him about the head and then trying to crush his skull and being stopped is what you call unjust?

You hypocrite, you would defend yourself in a similar circumstance.
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Old 04-11-2012, 19:38   #38
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Stupid.

Holder needs to go to jail.
ditto
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Old 04-11-2012, 19:38   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk View Post
I suppose, jumping a guy going to his car, beating him about the head and then trying to crush his skull and being stopped is what you call unjust?

You hypocrite, you would defend yourself in a similar circumstance.
I don't think he would, he did vote for the girlieman POTUS
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Old 04-11-2012, 19:42   #40
Gunnut 45/454
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"then shot him after being physically beat by Travon. Therefore, to answer your question, I wouldn't say Travon was the aggressor but more liked provoked"

In the eyes of the law a perfect defense of Zimmerman- Travon agressor -whether provoked or not! There is no evidence that Zimmerman ever layed hands on Travon. Travon was seen not by just one person but two people( Reported tonight on Hanity) as being on top of Zimmerman! Travon didn't call 911, didn't stay away from Zimmerman , Zimmerman stopped following Travon but yet Travon comes back to where Zimmerman was! As I've said in other posts - when a prosecutor wants to find a law to charge they will. I'd love to know what the Proable Cause was to make the charge and if his lawyer is any good he require the DA to show that at the hearing.
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