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Old 05-05-2012, 09:53   #241
freakshow10mm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyR View Post
Regardless of which barrel one chooses, when reloading one should use a properly adjusted Lee Factory Crimp die in the final stage.
Which is a piece of junk and will swage lead bullets smaller in diameter. This will cause leading from the bullet being undersized and gas blowing by the gap. The FCD is a crutch for people that can't properly adjust their sizing die and is even worse for lead.

As I've stated in the thread a few times I've never had a problem with my threaded G30 LWD barrel either.

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There are a lot of folks here that generate their own problems and blame their mistakes on others.
Lot of folks here that talk in sound bites and reiterate ad copy from companies which perpetuates bad advice.
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Old 05-05-2012, 10:23   #242
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Comes now LWD with another plea that the customers of LWD are idiots for expecting a product sold by them to perform as they indicated in their promotional statements on their website. They acknowledge that the lead bullets are out of SAAMI spec and still go on to assert that those same lead bullets will function in their barrels.

I guess that the inference is that the only lead bullets that will function in the LWD is the commercially produced ammo as in the Cowboy stuff. I just haven't seen many Glocks at those Cowboy shoots here in Idaho, perhaps elsewhere they are allowed.

Their website sounds similar to a capitalization of the intent of the buyer as an inducement to purchase a product that is known not to function in the way that the vast majority of buyers will use their product. Pitiful and Pathetic.
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Old 05-05-2012, 13:43   #243
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Originally Posted by JR View Post
Whatever it is, I MUST accept full responsibility for all the disgruntled (ness). Anyhow, I had a great conversation with Dave Kiff at Pacific Tool and Gauge today. Maybe some of you know him? Dave knows well what we do and why we do it, he built our reamers in the first place. BTW: The man has a stelar reputation in this industry. So, I have solid measurements HOWEVER it would do no good to post them. Given plenty of opportunity to post, non have complied, so I can only assume you would not understand dimensions anyway. Suffice it to say the $30 chamber modification we currently offer is one and the same used by Colt, Remington & Ruger.
Your just not very good at this. It's not our job to give you specs. We are the customer. We primarily want something that works. BUT, if you think a bunch of reloaders don't know how to read some numbers then you really don't know anything about this group.

Here is how most people think of you and your company's barrel/chamber came to be in the market.

I am going to make the BEST barrel ever. It's going to be "Match Grade" so I am going to make it to the smallest size listed for SAMMI spec. Then I will use standard rifling, sell it cheaper then everyone else selling a Glock Barrel because I made mine in some 3rd world country. Then I can claim it's the best because it's smaller then everyone elses and I sell more of them then any other barrel maker.

Problem is you QC has to be spot on if you are making it to min spec. No QC is perfect all the time.
Problem is all lead bullets are out of spec from the get go in 9mm and .40 and SIG.

If I owned a company I would pay to have that guy who bought two if your barrels to ship them back so you can compare them to the KKM. I would buy several KKM in every caliber and actually chamber cast them and see what OTHER MATCH GRADE barrels are really like. Then I would set out to make a barrel that actually worked for the reloader of the world and the Factory ammo would also work perfectly.

I would not say things like you did in this thread that belittles the people who buy your products and tries to make them look like they don't know anything. Those same people know more about this subject then you. Of that I am 100% sure.
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Last edited by Colorado4Wheel; 05-05-2012 at 13:46..
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Old 05-05-2012, 14:19   #244
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Originally Posted by freakshow10mm View Post
Which is a piece of junk and will swage lead bullets smaller in diameter. This will cause leading from the bullet being undersized and gas blowing by the gap. The FCD is a crutch for people that can't properly adjust their sizing die and is even worse for lead.

As I've stated in the thread a few times I've never had a problem with my threaded G30 LWD barrel either.


Lot of folks here that talk in sound bites and reiterate ad copy from companies which perpetuates bad advice.
I agree!

After twenty years in the firearms industry I have quite a distaste for most things LEE. I have sent more LEE products back, had more problems with the product line and more dissatisfied customers than all others combined.

I like to refer to the FCD as LEE's solution to a non existant problem.

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Old 05-05-2012, 15:14   #245
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JR is the only one that doesn't seem to understand that when you advertise a barrel as being good with lead it should actually work with lead. KKM, Wilson and Storm Lake figured that out from the start.

I shoot tons of lead thru my various LW barrels; it works just fine.
You are missing the point. It's not about lead; it's about the dimensions of the final round. LW barrels do have tight chambers and short throats as does EVERY other "match barrel" that is designed for precision. If you can make uniform spec rounds that fit in a "match barrel" then they will work regardless of being plated, jacketed, hard cast, soft lead etc.

If you want to load uber loads to long COL with big honkin WFN bullets then you might need a longer throat which JR generously offers to do for $30. That is a bargain if you ask me.
LW makes a good product for a very reasonable price, has good customer service and prompt shipping. Their barrels are exactly what they advertise them to be. If that is not what you want buy a different barrel; doesn't make LW barrels a bad product.
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Old 05-05-2012, 15:21   #246
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The truth of the matter is his customer base are users that take out a perfectly good barrel and put in his expecting that a "match grade" will make them a better shooter.

I am willing to bet reloaders are a very small piece of his customer base.
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Old 05-05-2012, 15:24   #247
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Originally Posted by shotgunred View Post
The truth of the matter is his customer base are users that take out a perfectly good barrel and put in his expecting that a "match grade" will make them a better shooter.

I am willing to bet reloaders are a very small piece of his customer base.
That's an excellent point. They probably figure their grip plug shaves time off their scores too. The LWD barrel is to the Glock what the Mickey Thompson valve cover was to the hot-rodder.
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Old 05-05-2012, 15:51   #248
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Once again I have to ask, how many disgruntled LWD barrel owners are actually reading this thread? My guess is 5 or less. Your complaint is noted that you were tricked into purchasing a match grade barrel that does not fit your reload. You refuse to return the barrel and pay $30 to have it altered.

How about I waive the $30 fee? You return the barrel and I will recut it to the Colt chamber. Once you receive the barrel with the new chamber you can repost how it works..... but you still get to complain about how you had to go through all this BS to get $30 off the price of the barrel and LWD sucks as usual.

I will talk to my IT guys and see about putting up some kind of warning on-line that our match grade barrels may not fit your home rolls so if you plan to make a purchase, we advise you to send in a few dummy loads so we can verify fit.

Shot: Glock factory barrels SUCK for reloaders. The chamber runs up to 6 thousandths larger than SAMMI. If you even had a CLUE you would not have posted such a silly statement

Wisky: I do not recall hearing any of your accomplishments?

Cycle: Thanks! There are way more of you than there is of them
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Last edited by JR; 05-05-2012 at 15:54.. Reason: spell, add cycle comment
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Old 05-05-2012, 16:08   #249
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Originally Posted by Cycletroll View Post
You are missing the point. It's not about lead; it's about the dimensions of the final round. LW barrels do have tight chambers and short throats as does EVERY other "match barrel" that is designed for precision. If you can make uniform spec rounds that fit in a "match barrel" then they will work regardless of being plated, jacketed, hard cast, soft lead etc.
Not true. LW is much shorter and tighter for no real benefit and a huge PITA factor.
I am going to guess you work for LW or have nice script provided by JR. I have owned a LW and KKM as have many in this thread. Way more then 5 dissatisfied people.
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Old 05-05-2012, 16:09   #250
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Originally Posted by JR View Post
Once again I have to ask, how many disgruntled LWD barrel owners are actually reading this thread? My guess is 5 or less. Your complaint is noted that you were tricked into purchasing a match grade barrel that does not fit your reload. You refuse to return the barrel and pay $30 to have it altered.

How about I waive the $30 fee? You return the barrel and I will recut it to the Colt chamber. Once you receive the barrel with the new chamber you can repost how it works..... but you still get to complain about how you had to go through all this BS to get $30 off the price of the barrel and LWD sucks as usual.

I will talk to my IT guys and see about putting up some kind of warning on-line that our match grade barrels may not fit your home rolls so if you plan to make a purchase, we advise you to send in a few dummy loads so we can verify fit.

Shot: Glock factory barrels SUCK for reloaders. The chamber runs up to 6 thousandths larger than SAMMI. If you even had a CLUE you would not have posted such a silly statement

Wisky: I do not recall hearing any of your accomplishments?

Cycle: Thanks! There are way more of you than there is of them
So, you're going to put a disclaimer on your website about how your barrels may not fit reloads and you're going to waive the $30.00 fee? That sounds like what C4W and others had suggested you do all along. That sounds like a great idea.
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Old 05-05-2012, 16:30   #251
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No, I plan to waive the $30 fee in this instance.
If anybody reading this thread has a LWD barrel that is not performing as well as they think it should, I will ask them to return the barrel so we can recut the chamber to the COLT (you see, I have a name for it) spec chamber. Once the barrel is received I simply request they post their findings here on this thread. You guys may be disgruntled but I firmly believe you are honest so you are going to say the barrel works as advertized. (I win again)
Once this chamber is accepted, I will most likely change all the Gen4 chambers to fit the same. Yes that is correct, I will change 10's of thousands of barrel chambers to stop these 5 guys from their rant. NOW I TOTALLY FEEL LIKE A DEMOCRAT! Change the needs of the many to fit the 5!
Oh yah, because I detest this chamber I will drop the price too. I will sell more barrels in May than I normally do in 6 months.

PS: If you want your chamber hogged out to this Colt spec simply mail it to us at the regular LWD address and print on the outside of the package "GT Hole Requested".
PSS: *You must also write a personal note saying you think I am a great guy and awesome listener. (come on, now thats funny!)
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Old 05-05-2012, 16:45   #252
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Originally Posted by Bluescot View Post
Comes now LWD with another plea that the customers of LWD are idiots for expecting a product sold by them to perform as they indicated in their promotional statements on their website. They acknowledge that the lead bullets are out of SAAMI spec and still go on to assert that those same lead bullets will function in their barrels.

I guess that the inference is that the only lead bullets that will function in the LWD is the commercially produced ammo as in the Cowboy stuff. I just haven't seen many Glocks at those Cowboy shoots here in Idaho, perhaps elsewhere they are allowed.

Their website sounds similar to a capitalization of the intent of the buyer as an inducement to purchase a product that is known not to function in the way that the vast majority of buyers will use their product. Pitiful and Pathetic.
Neither have I ,seeing as how SASS requires rimmed rounds,such as 32 WCF,32 Mag,38 Spl./357 Mag,38WCF,a ballistic twin of the 40 S&W,44 Spl./44 Mag.,44 WCF and of course 45 colt. The only thing is I have yet to see a Glock chambered in any of those calibers,let alone a Glock used in a SASS shoot excluding a Cops versus Cowboy shoot.
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Old 05-05-2012, 16:46   #253
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No, I plan to waive the $30 fee in this instance.
If anybody reading this thread has a LWD barrel that is not performing as well as they think it should, I will ask them to return the barrel so we can recut the chamber to the COLT (you see, I have a name for it) spec chamber. Once the barrel is received I simply request they post their findings here on this thread. You guys may be disgruntled but I firmly believe you are honest so you are going to say the barrel works as advertized. (I win again)
Once this chamber is accepted, I will most likely change all the Gen4 chambers to fit the same. Yes that is correct, I will change 10's of thousands of barrel chambers to stop these 5 guys from their rant. NOW I TOTALLY FEEL LIKE A DEMOCRAT! Change the needs of the many to fit the 5!
Oh yah, because I detest this chamber I will drop the price too. I will sell more barrels in May than I normally do in 6 months.

PS: If you want your chamber hogged out to this Colt spec simply mail it to us at the regular LWD address and print on the outside of the package "GT Hole Requested".
PSS: *You must also write a personal note saying you think I am a great guy and awesome listener. (come on, now thats funny!)

Actually, it's clear as mud. I read it twice just to be fair to you and you completely undo the first part of your post with the last part of it. It's exactly like the promise a slimy democrat would make. Just like bho when he said he was for spreading the wealth around, and then he wasn't for wealth redistribution, all in the same sentence.

Either way, it's not my problem. I saw your product for what it is years ago. The problems people have with it came as no surprise to me. Neither does your JA Ceiner attitude. You sked me to list my accomplishments, well here is one: I have obtained the wisdom and experience to see BS Artists for what they are and not to do business with them. I never sent you a nickel, never would, and wouldn't use anything you made if it was given to me. If this is the way you conduct business, I can just imagine the crap steel and other QC issues that could arise from your products being made in some mystery third world plant. I'm just glad you don't make aircraft parts.
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Old 05-05-2012, 16:52   #254
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Shot: Glock factory barrels SUCK for reloaders. The chamber runs up to 6 thousandths larger than SAMMI. If you even had a CLUE you would not have posted such a silly statement.
What caliber and year Glock barrel was that loose?(out of SAAMI spec)

I got out the small hole gages and mic and measured the chambers of both my .40 and .357sig Glock barrels.(later narrow feed ramp designs) Measured at approx the same points as the specs on the SAAMI prints I posted a link for.

.40 Glock
Big End - .4305" (SAAMI Min .4275")
Small End - .4265" (SAAMI Min .4243")
Tolerence of Min Dimension - +.004" -.000"

.357sig
Big End - .430" (SAAMI Min .4275")
Small End - .4275" (SAAMI Min .4254")
Tolerence of Min Dimension - +.004" -.000"

Whenever I get the chance to use a CMM again I will have to try and get some even more accurate measurements. (like within .00005")

By looking at the numbers you can tell both chambers are well within SAAMI's specified tolerance. Both at around +.002" over minimum.

I find it hard to believe Glock would purposely make a barrel with a chamber that is not within SAAMIs specified dimensions. That just opens them up to unnecessary liability.

Last edited by dkf; 05-05-2012 at 16:53..
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Old 05-05-2012, 16:52   #255
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Hog it out. Nice.
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Old 05-05-2012, 16:55   #256
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Originally Posted by dkf View Post
what caliber and year glock barrel was that loose?(out of saami spec)

i got out the small hole gages and mic and measured the chambers of both my .40 and .357sig glock barrels.(later narrow feed ramp designs) measured at approx the same points as the specs on the saami prints i posted a link for.

.40 glock
big end - .4305" (saami min .4275")
small end - .4265" (saami min .4243")
tolerence of min dimension - +.004" -.000"

.357sig
big end - .430" (saami min .4275")
small end - .4275" (saami min .4254")
tolerence of min dimension - +.004" -.000"

whenever i get the chance to use a cmm again i will have to try and get some even more accurate measurements. (like within .00005")

by looking at the numbers you can tell both chambers are well within saami's specified tolerance. Both at around +.002" over minimum.

I find it hard to believe glock would purposely make a barrel with a chamber that is not within saamis specified dimensions. That just opens them up to unnecessary liability.

pwned...
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Old 05-05-2012, 16:57   #257
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dkf:Check out the Gen1 chambers and feel free to repost your findings. Glock Inc has been on a wonderful ride over the years. They have been subitly improving their chambers all the way up to the current production Gen4, which by the way are the most awesome!
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Old 05-05-2012, 16:58   #258
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Wisky: You clearly are not a LWD customer and as you have stated, never will be. You have no dog in the fight. What exactly is your purpose here other than to kick sand in my face?
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Old 05-05-2012, 17:02   #259
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dkf:Check out the Gen1 chambers and feel free to repost your findings. Glock Inc has been on a wonderful ride over the years. They have been subitly improving their chambers all the way up to the current production Gen4, which by the way are the most awesome!
If I ever get ahold of a Gen1 with a very low round count I will measure them up. Sorry to say I don't have Gen1s which were for the most part 9mms.

I'm not really a fan of the Gen4s myself. Mostly due to the realatively rough current track record.(ejection issues) I'm sure you like them though as your selling a lot of extractors to try a remedy ejection issues.

Quote:
pwned...
I expected them to measure larger actually but they are tighter than I thought. I'd say they are right where they need to be.

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Old 05-05-2012, 17:02   #260
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Wisky: You clearly are not a LWD customer and as you have stated, never will be. You have no dog in the fight. What exactly is your purpose here other than to kick sand in my face?
I kicked no sand in your face in the beginning of this thread. Now that you've joined it and made an ass out of yourself, I'm commenting on that. So you are a democrat. You pick a fight by insulting people, people respond back, and then you claim to be picked on. Classic passive/aggressive stuff there. I'm surprised you aren't out "occupying" some park or shutting down a rail load of coal to a power plant.
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