[Southswede]

Originally Posted by eselby

LEOs, I want to take your side in this story. I really do, but as the owner of two awesome dogs I'm having a hard time siding with the police here.

http://www.npr.org/local/stories/KUT/150733002

Please explain why this officer would have drawn his gun instead of tazer or pepper spray?

Please offer me an acceptable, rational reason to not be angry at this LEO.

http://m.statesman.com/statesman/db_...tguid=2neWBOEx

Here ya go. No reason to be angry with anyone BUT the dog's owner.

[Southswede]

Originally Posted by SGT HATRED

Well done sam. Couldn't have taken more than 10 minutes...

The reason you did not want us to know what you did for a living is because it shows a distinct LACK of credibility on your part......

[Southswede]

Originally Posted by txleapd

I doubt he did expect it. It's another indicator of his lack of understanding cops.

Well said!

[SGT HATRED]

Originally Posted by Southswede

The reason you did not want us to know what you did for a living is because it shows a distinct LACK of credibility on your part......

Oh really? Credibility for what my (once again) OPINIONS?

[SGT HATRED]

Good grief all over a different point of view. If you mess with the donkey you get the ass... I get it now

[Southswede]

Originally Posted by SGT HATRED

Oh really? Credibility for what my (once again) OPINIONS?

YES credibility for your opinions. You are entitled to be as wrong as you like.

Just don't be upset (like you are) when you opinion is pointed out as being less than credible.

[Southswede]

Originally Posted by SGT HATRED

Good grief all over a different point of view. If you mess with the donkey you get the ass... I get it now

And in some cases you get both because, well you are both.....

[smokeross]

Originally Posted by Southswede

OK so it IS like I suspected. You WOULD let you and your pet be harmed BEFORE taking action. (" Pretty sure she could handle a couple of bites, as could I." )

You'll forgive the rest of us for not wanting to be harmed, won't you?

Yes, I forgive you. The dogs I dealt with are still alive, and the owner has now got them restrained. After all, he does know I WILL shoot them, based on past actions.

[kenpoprofessor]

Originally Posted by smokeross

I propose "The Officers Club" where only LEO can post. They can crack jokes about all the silly things that go on in the back of the patrol car, and how ignorant the public are. Which donuts are the best.
And "The Bad Guy Club House" where only perps can post, and vent about how they were mistreated, misunderstood, had stuff planted on them and such.
But really, I prefer the interaction between the 2. Fun to figure out which one is most full of B.S. Quite a bit on each side, I would say.

http://forums.officer.com/forums/

http://www.policeone.com/police-forums/

Hmmm, vetted forums, how'd that happen?

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

[SGT HATRED]

Hey I'm not upset, a little name calling is nothing. After all this is the internet...

[Patchman]

Originally Posted by SGT HATRED

Oh really? Credibility for what my (once again) OPINIONS?

Then why not honestly tell us what you do for a living? Then we can all offer up our opinions.

[Sendarr]

His opinion isn't valid because he works at a casino? Huh?

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

[RussP]

PEOPLE, EVERYONE, KNOCK IT OFF!!

You who are in here trolling, stop.

You cops responding, feeding the trolls, STOP!

I'm already in a real pissy mood, don't make it worse.

Violate the Rules and/or Eric's policies on behavior in Cop Talk and you'll regret the outcome.

[smokeross]

Deleted.

[Patchman]

Damn, missed it by 13 minutes.

[Morris]

Christ on a cracker! Who ate all the kettle corn? Now I have to unass myself from the lazeeboy to make some more.

Who's in for cheezy corn this time?

[Grumpy0358]

I've got two Australian Cattle Dogs, or "blue heelers". The 50+ pound female would be a four legged buzz saw if she thought i was being threatened. She gets about 10 feet long and four inches high, with an impressive ruff when she charges, and has an intimidating alarm bark. I would not like to be on the receiving end of her when aroused. I would hate for her to be shot, but she is very protective.
Been a cop for 33 plus years, never shot a dog, hope I never do. But have had to threaten to do it several times with owners that were not in control of their animals. Had a partner that had to shoot a 40 pound pit bull off of his arm as it bit through his leather jacket. And that was in front of its owner and her kids.
That was pre pepper spray and and taser days BTW.
All the haters need to remember that cops are people too. Some are deathly afraid of dogs. Some may be afraid of spiders, or of being buried alive. Who knows? We don't stop being human when the badge is pinned on.

[Mr T]

Originally Posted by lpo

You said blue heelers aren't typicly aggresive dogs, neither are pugs. Mine wouldn't get his fat ass off the couch if satan himself walked through the door with a babies head on a spike.

[Patchman]

Before I got married, my (future) wife had a Pekinese. Tell me that dog didn't deserve to get shot. It lived for 14 looooong years.

[4949shooter]

Gumbydammit explained it well, from an LEO perspective.

Scenario: Officer gets called to a HOT domestic violence call. For those who do not know, domestic violence calls are among the most dangerous calls police respond to. Thus so, the officer's adrenaline is pumping.

Officer gets to the call address (unbeknownst to him he was sent to the wrong address). The officer is BY HIMSELF. Now...I always preached to my guys to never, ever, go to these calls by themselves. I used to make them wait for at least one other backup officer before they went in. Why? Because I didn't want to explain to some widow, or officer's mother, that their husband/son was killed because I wasn't doing my job as a supervisor by not doing everything in my power to keep my men (and women) safe. I'm getting off track here so bear with me. Truth be told? I have gone into domestics myself, though I never told my guys that. I looked at it this way, someone needed help in there, and I was that help, right or wrong.

So...our APD officer goes into the hot domestic call by himself, because, well, he wants to stop the violence. He is confronted by a male subject and a dog. He doesn't know where the victim is (possibly dead or injured), and he doesn't know if the aggressor has any compadres in the area who may be willing to do him harm. He also doesn't know if the aggressor is armed, or has access to close by weapons. So...the officer draws his gun.

Now...with all this on his mind, as well as wondering where his backup is, the officer enters the property. The officer's attention is diverted between the male subject, the dog, and the possible compadres who he fears may be in the area. The male subject starts making movements, and the dog acts aggressively and comes toward him. Now there are two threats at the same time, plus the concern for compadres in the area. The officer is trying to process a lot of information at once, all the while fearing for his safety. Does he sight in on the male aggressor or the barking, growling dog coming at him? Which is closest and is presenting the most immediate threat? Can he potentially fight the male aggressor with a dog attached to his leg, or worse one of his arms? What about potential compadres / multiple aggressors? What does he do? The dog is closing quick....and shots are fired.

Yep, I would hate to be in that officer's position. The fact is though, I know where he is coming from and what he was experiencing. We as law enforcement officers may not have experienced this exact scenario, but we all have faced situations very similar to this.

The bottom line is, other police officers can empathize, even if we may not completely agree with the actions of this particular officer. My father has been a barber for over 50 years. My brother is an electrician. My buddy down the street is a carpenter, and my other buddy is a chimney sweep. I love them all, but you know what? They can't completely understand what I have gone through in my 23 years as a police officer, even though they try to. They can sympathize but they can't empathize. Perhaps this is the crux of the problem with this thread, and more significantly with the public in the Austin area. And just to clarify, I am a dog lover myself.

Perhaps some will benefit from this thread. We can only hope.

My apologies for rambling. Thanks for listening.

[lopak]

Alright, who woke Clyde up?

[Patchman]

Originally Posted by 4949shooter

The bottom line is, other police officers can empathize, even if we may not completely agree with the actions of this particular officer. My father has been a barber for over 50 years. My brother is an electrician. My buddy down the street is a carpenter, and my other buddy is a chimney sweep. I love them all, but you know what? They can't completely understand what I have gone through in my 23 years as a police offer, even though the try to. They can sympathize but they can't empathize.

Perhaps this is the crux of the problem with this thread, and more significantly with the public in the Austin area.

I believe the crux of the problem is that a segment of posters don't have the grace to realize that maybe they don't know more about a profession than the practitioners.

Would these same posters get loudly opinionated about how to cut hair better than barbers, or wire up houses better than electricians? Or do better carpentry work or clean chimneys than carpenters and chimney sweeps? (Well..., actually they might )

Yep, the problem is they will let you know unequivocally they know more about every aspect of LE than practicing LEOs.

[kenpoprofessor]

Originally Posted by lopak

Alright, who woke Clyde up?

The people in this particular forum who say they need to lock out anyone not a cop . There's other forums out there for those that feel the need to talk shop in a closed environment. I'm part of an AZ gun board that has to have you voted in to participate, no visible forums for anyone else to peek in.

That being said, the cop was in the wrong place at the wrong time. His stress level was off the charts and he put an innocent man at gun point because he wasn't where he was supposed to be. The dog was acting as it should, to protect property and owner (if that's what it was doing), and the officer was trespassing.

Some people would say the cop had every right to be there, but did he? We'll see how the investigation and courts handle it.

Nevertheless, the cop was way too aggressive, and tried to cover his actions after the fact. Cops like this need to find jobs that are less stressful, and less dangerous to other citizens around them.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

[Sam Spade]

Originally Posted by kenpoprofessor

That being said, the cop was in the wrong place at the wrong time. His stress level was off the charts and he put an innocent man at gun point because he wasn't where he was supposed to be. The dog was acting as it should, to protect property and owner (if that's what it was doing), and the officer was trespassing.

Some people would say the cop had every right to be there, but did he? We'll see how the investigation and courts handle it.

Nevertheless, the cop was way too aggressive, and tried to cover his actions after the fact. Cops like this need to find jobs that are less stressful, and less dangerous to other citizens around them.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

Are you holding him responsible for someone else sending him to the wrong address? Your choice of words ("he was where he wasn't supposed to be" "The cop was in the wrong place..") strongly suggest that. Sure, they're technically accurate, but in focusing on the cop instead of those that sent him, you misdirect responsibility.

And what do you count as being too aggressive? Why?

What is your backing for saying he tried to cover things up? That's come out nowhere else on the threads.

You threw around a lot of heavy accusations; it'd be nice if you backed them up somehow.

[kenpoprofessor]

Originally Posted by Sam Spade

Are you holding him responsible for someone else sending him to the wrong address? Your choice of words ("he was where he wasn't supposed to be" "The cop was in the wrong place..") strongly suggest that. Sure, they're technically accurate, but in focusing on the cop instead of those that sent him, you misdirect responsibility.

And what do you count as being too aggressive? Why?

What is your backing for saying he tried to cover things up? That's come out nowhere else on the threads.

You threw around a lot of heavy accusations; it'd be nice if you backed them up somehow.

The guy told the officer that he didn't know he (the officer) was there. The officer asked him why he didn't have a leash on his dog . If you're out in the back yard playing frisbee with your dog, it's not likely you're going to put it on a leash to go to the front yard and suddenly find a cop there The cop immediately shifted blame for his actions to the homeowner and dog, who was completely innocent of any trangressions to begin with.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde