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Old 04-18-2012, 12:33   #1
Paul7
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Christians Dumb?

A recurring theme from some of the skeptics here is that Christians are somehow dumb, and just not as smart. Some are, just as many non-believers are, but how to the skeptics explain the following pretty smart people who came to faith in Christ later in life?

http://newbirthportraits.com/gallery
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Old 04-18-2012, 12:39   #2
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It's the 'Ad hominem' method of argument. Once a person can no longer argue a person's position, they resort to attacking the person. It makes them feel superior, and they don't have to have an actual valid argument to use it.
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Old 04-18-2012, 13:05   #3
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Not dumb, just ignorant. No, I don't mean that as an insult.
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Old 04-18-2012, 13:12   #4
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Not dumb, just ignorant. No, I don't mean that as an insult.
Ad hominem. Christians could say the same of you. They don't.
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Old 04-18-2012, 13:17   #5
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Ad hominem. Christians could say the same of you. They don't.
No, it really isn't an ad hominem in this case. I did not mean it as an insult. Ignorance is the lack of knowledge, not the lack of intelligence. This is the context I meant it in. It can certainly be used as an ad hominem as well, but not in this instance.

Now, you could argue that I am mistaken in describing you as ignorant and you could argue that I am ignorant of the truth of the bible. I would disagree, of course, but it would be a valid argument for you to make given your position.
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Old 04-18-2012, 13:30   #6
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Ignorant, ill informed, uneducated, "You believe this because you don't know any better."

While ignorance can be argued from either side, it's a reaching assumption to make when all you know is that the person claims faith in, or rejection of, a religion.
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Old 04-18-2012, 13:32   #7
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I'd argue that some of them are quite intelligent in their argumentation, etc.

Paul, I don't see how you can seriously argue that none of the people who identify themselves as Christians here on the board have never ad-hom'd.
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Old 04-18-2012, 13:43   #8
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LOL! The title of this post is funny enough for me!
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Old 04-18-2012, 13:57   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul7 View Post
A recurring theme from some of the skeptics here is that Christians are somehow dumb, and just not as smart. Some are, just as many non-believers are, but how to the skeptics explain the following pretty smart people who came to faith in Christ later in life?

http://newbirthportraits.com/gallery
I have no way of knowing how smart any of those people are and nothing there gives me a reason to think they are particularly intelligent. I don't see how the link supports your premise.

As for what I think - I do tend to think someone is less intelligent if they believe things they are told, which are fairly important, without evidence. I don't care if it's god or zeus or bigfoot or alien visitors (from other planets, not Mexico) or George Bush conspiring to blow up the world trade center.
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Old 04-18-2012, 13:59   #10
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Ignorant, ill informed, uneducated, "You believe this because you don't know any better."

While ignorance can be argued from either side, it's a reaching assumption to make when all you know is that the person claims faith in, or rejection of, a religion.
Not "a reaching assumption" at all - when a person admits to beliefs not supported by evidence, it is a perfectly natural and obvious conclusion to make.

It's a reasonable conclusion about a person's thinking, based on their own admission about what they think.
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Old 04-18-2012, 14:03   #11
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I don't think being religious is a matter of intelligence per se.

Critical, independent thinking? That may be your issue with people who swallow religion just on faith. But not intellgence generally.

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Old 04-18-2012, 14:06   #12
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Not "a reaching assumption" at all - when a person admits to beliefs not supported by evidence, it is a perfectly natural and obvious conclusion to make.

It's a reasonable conclusion about a person's thinking, based on their own admission about what they think.
It is not reasonable to conclude that a person has not carefully considered what they choose to believe, or that their choice is made out of ignorance, simply by the choice itself.
The label of Christianity covers so many different belief systems that the label itself is insufficient to assume what a person believes.
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Old 04-18-2012, 14:09   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul7 View Post
A recurring theme from some of the skeptics here is that Christians are somehow dumb, and just not as smart. Some are, just as many non-believers are, but how to the skeptics explain the following pretty smart people who came to faith in Christ later in life?

http://newbirthportraits.com/gallery

Not dumb, I see it as more of an emotional problem.


...
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Old 04-18-2012, 14:27   #14
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how to the skeptics explain the following pretty smart people who came to faith in Christ later in life?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senility
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Old 04-18-2012, 14:31   #15
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Ignorance is the lack of knowledge...and you could argue that I am ignorant of the truth of the bible. I would disagree, of course, but it would be a valid argument for you to make given your position.
I do and you are.


(Ignorant)

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Old 04-18-2012, 14:32   #16
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Quote:
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Not dumb, just ignorant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IndianaMatt View Post
I don't think being religious is a matter of intelligence per se.

Critical, independent thinking? That may be your issue with people who swallow religion just on faith. But not intellgence generally.
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Not dumb, I see it as more of an emotional problem.
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Originally Posted by CitizenOfDreams View Post
To more clearly state the purpose in my replies: these arguments deal with some kind of deficiency in the believer, rather than the belief. To argue the tenets of a religion is one subject, to deride a person because of their beliefs is another.

This is why liberals spend so much time calling conservatives 'racist hate mongers' and so on. Liberals subscribe to a different social or economic belief system than conservatives, and rather than discuss the actual issues, many discuss the believers instead.

Too often, when someone expresses an argument against a believer, they incorrectly think they have argued against the belief.
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Old 04-18-2012, 14:50   #17
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Not dumb, I see it as more of an emotional problem....
Why...I...oooh...grrrrr...
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Old 04-18-2012, 14:53   #18
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Oh no...Dick Clark died today.
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Old 04-18-2012, 14:58   #19
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Originally Posted by Paul7 View Post
A recurring theme from some of the skeptics here is that Christians are somehow dumb, and just not as smart. Some are, just as many non-believers are, but how to the skeptics explain the following pretty smart people who came to faith in Christ later in life?

http://newbirthportraits.com/gallery
Which of those people came to their faith based on a purely intellectual basis?
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Old 04-18-2012, 15:02   #20
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Which of those people came to their faith based on a purely intellectual basis?
And a person losing their soul to hell does so on a purely intellectual basis?
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