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Old 05-02-2012, 10:02   #61
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Imagine how much further we would be as a society if that amount of brain power were being devoted to understanding the physical world as opposed to worshipping an imaginary deity.
Didn't they try that in the USSR?

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How many discoveries have never happened simply because the right person was regurgitating hymns in church as opposed to investigating real world problems?
According to Whitehead and Oppenheimer, many of these discoveries happened because of a Christian worldview.
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Old 05-02-2012, 10:04   #62
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Didn't they try that in the USSR?
Yeah, but I'm not a godless communist. I'm a godless capitalist, so you have nothing to fear from me.

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Old 05-02-2012, 10:07   #63
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I wouldn't argue that it has solely harmed, but I think presenting it as solely helped is likewise invalid.
True, I didn't mean to give the impression that the Church has been nothing but a champion of scientific progress. As I had posted there are times when the Church would denounce activities within the discipline or to hold off on a pronouncement of a discovery within the field until further proof is brought forth. Not always a bad thing to if you consider how often thoughts of reality have changed within the scientific community over the ages.

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What would Galileo have done with his time, had he not had to worry about charges of heresy? How many more people would have had a chance to read Galileo's work, and what would *they* have done, had there not been a ban in place on reprinting what he wrote? I don't know, nobody does - and it's a bit saddening that this is so.
We got over it. In time you will to.
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Old 05-02-2012, 10:10   #64
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We got over it. In time you will to.
It would we be better if we didn't have to "get over" all the negative impacts of religion on society. Don't ya think?
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Old 05-02-2012, 10:25   #65
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One person's thoughts that are in disagreement with the thoughts of a second person, are always considered harmful by the first person.
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Old 05-02-2012, 10:27   #66
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It would we be better if we didn't have to "get over" all the negative impacts of religion on society. Don't ya think?
Would be great! Of course you would have consider the void of the positive impacts as well.

I don't think it possible to calculate either as we just don't have the ability to consider it in a vacuum.
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Old 05-02-2012, 10:30   #67
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One person's thoughts that are in disagreement with the thoughts of a second person, are always considered harmful by the first person.
While true, this is incomplete. While the first person might always consider it harmful, sometimes it will be actually harmful and sometimes it won't.
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Old 05-02-2012, 10:34   #68
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We got over it.
I'll believe that when people stop trying to pass laws and ban textbooks merely because science disagrees with their religion.
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Old 05-02-2012, 11:43   #69
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I'll believe that when people stop trying to pass laws and ban textbooks merely because science disagrees with their religion.
Yeah, remember what a utopian society Poland had when Russia rolled in and freed them from their bondage of Catholicism and Judaism?

I'm sure that the Polish who remember such times regard it as the "golden era". If only the rest of the world could be so lucky.
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Old 05-02-2012, 11:50   #70
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Yeah, remember what a utopian society Poland had when Russia rolled in and freed them from their bondage of Catholicism and Judaism?.
Are you claiming that the simple statement "We shouldn't pass laws merely because science disagrees with religion" is equivalent to advocating a totalitarian state?
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:15   #71
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Are you claiming that the simple statement "We shouldn't pass laws merely because science disagrees with religion" is equivalent to advocating a totalitarian state?
Too soon?
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:33   #72
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Too soon?
No, more like you're apparently resorting to guilt by association fallacies, given that the simple statement "We shouldn't pass laws merely because science disagrees with religion" applies in both directions, not just one.

(In other words, in case you're about to pretend you can't read plain English, it applies to the suppression of religious belief merely because it disagrees with science just as much as it applies to the suppression of the findings of science merely because they disagree with a particular religious belief)

But hey, if you want to show the world that you're willing to resort to fallacies, be my guest. If you want to show that you can't help but attack a person, rather than make an argument, I'm good with that.
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:53   #73
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No, more like you're apparently resorting to guilt by association fallacies, given that the simple statement "We shouldn't pass laws merely because science disagrees with religion" applies in both directions, not just one.

(In other words, in case you're about to pretend you can't read plain English, it applies to the suppression of religious belief merely because it disagrees with science just as much as it applies to the suppression of the findings of science merely because they disagree with a particular religious belief)

But hey, if you want to show the world that you're willing to resort to fallacies, be my guest. If you want to show that you can't help but attack a person, rather than make an argument, I'm good with that.
U mad?

I haven't attacked anyone yet. It takes me awhile to get warmed up for that. I should take you more seriously though, you're right about that. It's just that I'm having trouble coming up with a law that was blocked here in this country in say the last 30 years where this was the case.

Can you think of a law that was passed in the past 30 years in this country due to "science disagreeing with religion"?

Or rather should we pass laws based upon our scientific communities findings such as global warming? Suppose there were all kinds of restrictions to travel (more than we have now) due to the global warming issue only to discover now that the "evidence" for it was falsified? Would you have an issue with that?

Usually, it is economics that drive our laws, not science or religion.
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Old 05-02-2012, 13:01   #74
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Too soon?
Ok, that was funny.

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Old 05-02-2012, 13:05   #75
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It's just that I'm having trouble coming up with a law that was blocked here in this country in say the last 30 years where this was the case.

Can you think of a law that was passed in the past 30 years in this country due to "science disagreeing with religion"?
Have you really missed the whole 'We have to teach intelligent design' debate? Really? You missed the law they just passed in Tennessee? The court case in Pennsylvania? (which, imho, came out the right way, but it certainly points out that people are still trying)

Honestly, I think you think that because I brought up Galileo, you have to jump in and knock me down. This isn't about the Catholic church, it's about learning the lessons of history.
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Old 05-02-2012, 13:07   #76
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Ok, that was funny.
Honestly - I didn't get it, it made no sense to me at all that he'd respond with "too soon". *shrug*.
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Old 05-02-2012, 13:10   #77
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One person's thoughts that are in disagreement with the thoughts of a second person, are always considered harmful by the first person.
You're a 'nihilist?
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Old 05-02-2012, 13:18   #78
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Or rather should we pass laws based upon our scientific communities findings such as global warming?
From the scientific standpoint, we should try to figure out what's actually going on (i.e. we should let the actual science being done, still get done). From a religious standpoint, people should be free to believe what they want inasmuch as they are not harming other people (i.e., "my religion believes murder is ok" doesn't legally get you off the hook for murder, etc).

From a legal standpoint, it's my opinion we pass too many law for all *sorts* of bad reasons. Someone intentionally fudging a scientific finding would be one of them. However, I think that the opposition to global warming is borne more out of economics than it actually being bad science (although I don't think we should be, at the moment, necessarily be passing laws even under the assumption that it is *good* science.).
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Old 05-02-2012, 13:28   #79
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Honestly - I didn't get it, it made no sense to me at all that he'd respond with "too soon". *shrug*.
When someone makes a joke about a very dark event (in this case Russia invading Poland) and someone takes offense because they don't feel it's a joking matter (which is not really what you did, but...) then the come back is "too soon" which expanded equals "Too soon to joke about the tragic event?"

Take Roering with a grain of salt. It's been my experience that at least half the time he is just joking around (but you were still right on the unequal comparison call).
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Old 05-02-2012, 13:30   #80
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You're a 'nihilist?


No. I'm simply saying that to get two people to agree on anything is difficult because they both think they are right.

Good luck.
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