GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-30-2012, 12:31   #1
glockbanger
Senior Member
 
glockbanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 821
Looking for 300aac Blackout AR

I've never owned an AR before, but I think the blackout is perfect for me. I want a low recoil round that packs a punch out to 200 yards. I'll be outfitting the rifle with a 3-9x40 scope and I doubt anything else except for maybe a light or laser down the road. I don't own a rifle large enough to hunt white tailed deer with now, so this will be my primary hunting rifle but serve dually as an SD weapon.

What companies make complete 300aac rifles?

I would opt for a longer barrel if I thought it would make a much of a difference in velocity with this round. But I've read this round does well with SBRs, so then, is there much of an advantage whatsoever in going with an 18" or 20" barrel?

Where to buy?
glockbanger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2012, 12:49   #2
WoodenPlank
Who?
 
WoodenPlank's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NW Florida
Posts: 7,767
There's no reason to go longer than a 16" barrel with .300, even with the supersonic loads.

.300 is still relatively new to the market. While several companies are offering rifles pre-built in the caliber, or are planning to, actual availability on the ground is still very thin. Same thing goes for ammo - unless you plan to reload, you're going to have to look around a bit more, and pay double to triple the price per round compared to 5.56. ARs chambered for .300 are also typically more expensive than comparable 5.56 model, again due to it being relatively new to market.

The good news is the only difference between 5.56 and .300 ARs is the barrel - they share mags, bolt and carrier, receivers, etc. In fact, a 30 round 5.56 mag will even fit 30 rounds of .300, since the AAC cartridge is just a 5.56 case with an expanded neck to fir the .30 bullet.

As I mentioned in your other thread, .300 is not what I would suggest for a first time AR, because of the drawbacks mentioned above. It's only going to get worse as we get closer to the election, and the fear-mongering over another ban, race riots, etc. get over-blown. Ammo, firearm, and parts prices are going to go up across the board, and .300 will not be immune to that.
__________________
Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
WoodenPlank is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2012, 13:20   #3
MD357
Senior Member
 
MD357's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,886
Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodenPlank View Post
There's no reason to go longer than a 16" barrel with .300, even with the supersonic loads.

.300 is still relatively new to the market. While several companies are offering rifles pre-built in the caliber, or are planning to, actual availability on the ground is still very thin. Same thing goes for ammo - unless you plan to reload, you're going to have to look around a bit more, and pay double to triple the price per round compared to 5.56. ARs chambered for .300 are also typically more expensive than comparable 5.56 model, again due to it being relatively new to market.

The good news is the only difference between 5.56 and .300 ARs is the barrel - they share mags, bolt and carrier, receivers, etc. In fact, a 30 round 5.56 mag will even fit 30 rounds of .300, since the AAC cartridge is just a 5.56 case with an expanded neck to fir the .30 bullet.

As I mentioned in your other thread, .300 is not what I would suggest for a first time AR, because of the drawbacks mentioned above. It's only going to get worse as we get closer to the election, and the fear-mongering over another ban, race riots, etc. get over-blown. Ammo, firearm, and parts prices are going to go up across the board, and .300 will not be immune to that.
Gonna second this. Emphasis on the last part especially.
MD357 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2012, 13:28   #4
glockbanger
Senior Member
 
glockbanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 821
Ok, so you're against the 300aac at the moment because of expense and the fact it is not readily available. I appreciate the fact you would try to talk me out of it, when you believe it's not a good choice. Hmm... well what I really need is a dual purpose hunting/SD rifle that has low recoil. I don't know what all the options are. No doubt the 300aac fits the bill, but has problems. It has a lot of appeal to me because it's not a super long range caliber but will do everything I need it to. I'm not a true hunter so to speak. I like guns and am looking to purchase one rifle to suit multiple needs. Actually, the only hunting I do is spotlighting to keep deer off of our farm(with permit from game warden). When spotlighting, you rarely need to take shots over 100 yards. For fun, I've thought about taking the rifle out plinking but not doing any serious long range stuff, so probably not past 200 yards. What are the limitations of 300aac? But honestly, probably won't be shooting it that much. As far as stockpiling ammo... I've not put much thought into it. Maybe 1000 rounds would be nice with two or three extra mags.

Also we've had problems with beaver, but they tend to be more elusive so trapping works better than spotlighting. With 5.56 being quite small for white tailed deer, what rifle do you suggest to suit my needs? Does 6.8 have more appeal to you than 300aac? I'm not set on an AR, my expertise is limited and that the rifle everyone likes and seems to suggest, but it certainly wouldn't have to be an AR. As far a price goes, I'd rather do it right the first time, get the options I need, and invest what it takes to get a good, not top of the line rifle. Especially when looking at 300acc, it doesn't seem like there's a need if any to try to over do it in the accuracy dept. noting it has considerable drop past 200-300 yds.

Last edited by glockbanger; 04-30-2012 at 13:34..
glockbanger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2012, 14:09   #5
MD357
Senior Member
 
MD357's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,886
Why not just build one lower and two uppers? or buy a complete 5.56 AR and buy a seperate upper. Either way you have both. Just for versatility.
MD357 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2012, 14:21   #6
eracer
Where's my EBT?
 
eracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 6,722
PWS makes a nice piston gun, if your tastes run that way.

Noveske is building complete .300 BLK rifles. I bought an upper, and made an 8" SBR with my own lower.

Daniel Defense is advertising complete .300 BLK rifles as well.

Availability may be an issue.

Don't sweat the ammo costs. If you want an effective hunting round out to 200 yards you want something other than 5.56mm (but it sounds like you already know that.) That means you buy 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC II, .300 BLK, or one of the other big-bore uppers. Factory ammo cost will be higher than milsurp 5.56 for all of them, but if you reload, the .300 BLK will be the cheapest of the bunch.

I own a 6.5 Grendel (two actually) and several 5.56 carbines. I wouldn't mind owning a 6.8, but I think my Grendel outperforms it - YMMV.

My .300 BLK is a suppressed SBR, and I think that's the best use for the cartridge. Would I hesitate to take a deer at 200 yards with a 125gr Barnes Black Tip fired from it? Not for a second.

Past 200 yards? I'd rather have a Grendel or a 6.8.
__________________
Matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration; we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death. Life is a dream, and we're the imagination of ourselves. And now...the weather! ---- Bill Hicks

Last edited by eracer; 04-30-2012 at 14:30..
eracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2012, 14:41   #7
glockbanger
Senior Member
 
glockbanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 821
Quote:
Originally Posted by eracer View Post
PWS makes a nice piston gun, if your tastes run that way.

Noveske is building complete .300 BLK rifles. I bought an upper, and made an 8" SBR with my own lower.

Daniel Defense is advertising complete .300 BLK rifles as well.

Availability may be an issue.

Don't sweat the ammo costs. If you want an effective hunting round out to 200 yards you want something other than 5.56mm (but it sounds like you already know that.) That means you buy 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC II, .300 BLK, or one of the other big-bore uppers. Factory ammo cost will be higher than milsurp 5.56 for all of them, but if you reload, the .300 BLK will be the cheapest of the bunch.

I own a 6.5 Grendel (two actually) and several 5.56 carbines. I wouldn't mind owning a 6.8, but I think my Grendel outperforms it - YMMV.

My .300 BLK is a suppressed SBR, and I think that's the best use for the cartridge. Would I hesitate to take a deer at 200 yards with a 125gr Barnes Black Tip fired from it? Not for a second.

Past 200 yards? I'd rather have a Grendel or a 6.8.
Which is your favorite caliber of the three? Which of the three is more available? What would you go with? How do you think recoil compares in rapid fire? Price of 300 vs Grendel vs 6.8?

Grendel seems like a neat caliber but may be more than I need. Then again, maybe once I own an AR and want to test its limits, i'd be disappointed with the 300. The big appeal to me of the 300 is low recoil and a great punch to 200 yards. 6.8 and grendel probably outperform 300 blk at any distance, am i right, but with more recoil.

Last edited by glockbanger; 04-30-2012 at 14:47..
glockbanger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2012, 14:52   #8
Airhasz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Bad Axe
Posts: 535
Ive shot a lot of whitetails over the years. If you are shining a light on deer at night..if I understand you correctly...you are not that far away, a shotgun with a slug barrel shooting sabot slugs will easily knock deer down up to a hundred yards for around $400 and also works wonders on BG's. Lots cheaper than $1100 on up for good black rifle. Question really is do you want a 30rd mag...if you don't save lots of hundred dollar bills.
Airhasz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2012, 14:58   #9
michael_b
BRC #1492
 
michael_b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Kansas
Posts: 826
Quote:
Originally Posted by MD357 View Post
Why not just build one lower and two uppers? or buy a complete 5.56 AR and buy a seperate upper. Either way you have both. Just for versatility.
+1. I was thinking the same thing, if a person is sold on the AR platform.

The modular design really opens up your options.


Posted from my iPhone
__________________
"The thing about quotes on the Internet is you cannot confirm their validity"- Abraham Lincoln

"Compromise on gun-rights? Did Rosa Parks settle for the middle of the bus?"-Mushinto

Last edited by michael_b; 04-30-2012 at 15:51..
michael_b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2012, 15:15   #10
glockbanger
Senior Member
 
glockbanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 821
Quote:
Originally Posted by michael_b View Post
+1. I was thinking the same thing, of a person is sold on the AR platform.

The modular design really opens up your options.


Posted from my iPhone
I'm not sold on the AR platform. I've shot an M4 once, the recoil was great. I'd consider a .308 to have way to much recoil in comparison. So I'm looking for something in between these two. If grendel is a better option than 300 black, I'd certainly go that route. The only thing that would run me off is the recoil. I think that's the appeal of an AR in the first place. Seems like 300 black doesn't compromise recoil, but of course does compromise range. Albeit, maybe too much.
glockbanger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2012, 15:21   #11
WoodenPlank
Who?
 
WoodenPlank's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NW Florida
Posts: 7,767
Quote:
Originally Posted by glockbanger View Post
Ok, so you're against the 300aac at the moment because of expense and the fact it is not readily available. I appreciate the fact you would try to talk me out of it, when you believe it's not a good choice. Hmm... well what I really need is a dual purpose hunting/SD rifle that has low recoil. I don't know what all the options are. No doubt the 300aac fits the bill, but has problems. It has a lot of appeal to me because it's not a super long range caliber but will do everything I need it to. I'm not a true hunter so to speak. I like guns and am looking to purchase one rifle to suit multiple needs. Actually, the only hunting I do is spotlighting to keep deer off of our farm(with permit from game warden). When spotlighting, you rarely need to take shots over 100 yards. For fun, I've thought about taking the rifle out plinking but not doing any serious long range stuff, so probably not past 200 yards. What are the limitations of 300aac? But honestly, probably won't be shooting it that much. As far as stockpiling ammo... I've not put much thought into it. Maybe 1000 rounds would be nice with two or three extra mags.

Also we've had problems with beaver, but they tend to be more elusive so trapping works better than spotlighting. With 5.56 being quite small for white tailed deer, what rifle do you suggest to suit my needs? Does 6.8 have more appeal to you than 300aac? I'm not set on an AR, my expertise is limited and that the rifle everyone likes and seems to suggest, but it certainly wouldn't have to be an AR. As far a price goes, I'd rather do it right the first time, get the options I need, and invest what it takes to get a good, not top of the line rifle. Especially when looking at 300acc, it doesn't seem like there's a need if any to try to over do it in the accuracy dept. noting it has considerable drop past 200-300 yds.
I'm not sure I would feel comfortable with .300 past 100 yards to humanely take deer, unfortunately. That's .270, .308, .30-06, etc. territory in my eyes. With any of those, you'd be better off with a bolt action.

IMO, 6.8 is all but dead in the water. Proprietary bolt, mags, ammo, and barrel - all of which are harder to find, and it has little to no advantages over .300. 6.5 has the same drawbacks as 6.8, albeit with much greater range and power as a bonus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MD357 View Post
Why not just build one lower and two uppers? or buy a complete 5.56 AR and buy a seperate upper. Either way you have both. Just for versatility.
While expensive, this is a viable option.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Airhasz View Post
Ive shot a lot of whitetails over the years. If you are shining a light on deer at night..if I understand you correctly...you are not that far away, a shotgun with a slug barrel shooting sabot slugs will easily knock deer down up to a hundred yards for around $400 and also works wonders on BG's. Lots cheaper than $1100 on up for good black rifle. Question really is do you want a 30rd mag...if you don't save lots of hundred dollar bills.
This would also be a solid suggestion, and likely cheaper than the two-uppers option, unless your second upper was VERY barebones. Build or buy a basic but reliable AR-15, and use the money you saved towards a solid 12 ga.
__________________
Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
WoodenPlank is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2012, 15:33   #12
glockbanger
Senior Member
 
glockbanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 821
Is there a "high capacity" rifle more suitable than the AR platform for my needs in an intermediate caliber(between 5.56 and 7.62 nato)?

I'm moving away from the 300 black, if I'm going to pay for an expensive rifle, I want it to have better long range performance.

Last edited by glockbanger; 04-30-2012 at 15:34..
glockbanger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2012, 15:38   #13
WoodenPlank
Who?
 
WoodenPlank's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NW Florida
Posts: 7,767
Quote:
Originally Posted by glockbanger View Post
Is there a "high capacity" rifle more suitable than the AR platform for my needs in an intermediate caliber(between 5.56 and 7.62 nato)?

I'm moving away from the 300 black, if I'm going to pay for an expensive rifle, I want it to have better long range performance.
Not when you include white tail hunting, with the possible exception of 6.5 Grendel. .300 and 5.56 are both viable options for deer, but only with VERY carefully chosen shots - more so with 5.56. This is probably not going to work well while spotlighting.

I'd suggest building a solid AR in 5.56 for "social" purposes, target shooting, etc. and an inexpensive bolt-action in something more powerful for deer. it would be more expensive over-all, but it would also give you greater flexibility.
__________________
Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
WoodenPlank is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2012, 15:50   #14
eracer
Where's my EBT?
 
eracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 6,722
Quote:
Originally Posted by glockbanger View Post
Which is your favorite caliber of the three? Which of the three is more available? What would you go with? How do you think recoil compares in rapid fire? Price of 300 vs Grendel vs 6.8?

Grendel seems like a neat caliber but may be more than I need. Then again, maybe once I own an AR and want to test its limits, i'd be disappointed with the 300. The big appeal to me of the 300 is low recoil and a great punch to 200 yards. 6.8 and grendel probably outperform 300 blk at any distance, am i right, but with more recoil.
It's tough to pick a favorite.

I love my .300 BLK because it so versatile (within its yardage limitations. It helps to think of it as a 30-30, but better because of the excellent subsonic performance, and the overall performance from a short barrel. If you plan to do longer range shooting, I would recommend another cartridge. Can you hit a target 400 yards away with a .300 BLK? Sure, but they are better cartridges out there for that sort of thing.

The 30-30 has killed more deer than any other cartridge, and there's no reason you can't take your fair share with a .300 BLK. Just recognize its limitations.

I love my Grendel because I can use the same suppressor on it and the .300 BLK, and because it is a great intermediate cartridge. I've had great success hitting steel at 600 yards that was giving some of the .308 shooters problems. Great bullet + low recoil = easier shots at longer ranges. The 6.5G really is a reloader's cartridge (i.e. it responds very well to custom loads) but I've found a number of factory rounds (both target and hunting) that will hold 1 MOA - and that's good enough for me in an AR-15. I see the 6.5G as an excellent hunting round out to what I consider my ethical range of 400 yards.

If I had a 6.8 SPC II, I'm sure I'd love it. It's another great intermediate rifle cartridge. Its performance envelope starts to trail the Grendel's out past 400 yards, but that's not really a criteria you are concerned with.

The biggest issue you face with all three cartridges is what the future holds.

The 6.8 had some momentum, but it's losing steam.

The 6.5 is still considered a bit of a boutique cartridge, but new ammo offerings from some major players may start ramping up interest.

.300 BLK is hot right now - mostly because of its parts interchangability with 5.56, and its low-recoil, high-efficiency design. It's a versatile cartridge, and new bullet designs will give subsonic shooters a very attractive option to the pistol-caliber carbines.
__________________
Matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration; we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death. Life is a dream, and we're the imagination of ourselves. And now...the weather! ---- Bill Hicks
eracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2012, 16:08   #15
glockbanger
Senior Member
 
glockbanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 821
Quote:
Originally Posted by eracer View Post
The 6.5 is still considered a bit of a boutique cartridge, but new ammo offerings from some major players may start ramping up interest.
Grendel has a lot to offer, but what do you think of recoil. Would the military ever adopt it because of this?

I had read a little about grendel a couple years back. How are price an availability ATM?

Last edited by glockbanger; 04-30-2012 at 16:11..
glockbanger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2012, 16:12   #16
WoodenPlank
Who?
 
WoodenPlank's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NW Florida
Posts: 7,767
Quote:
Originally Posted by glockbanger View Post
Grendel has a lot to offer, but what do you think of recoil. Would the military ever adopt it because of this?
It will never be adopted because it's not being pushed to the DoD, and it's not being used by anyone else. Until recently, it was proprietary to Alexander Arms, and you could only make ammo, rifles or uppers for it by paying royalties to AA.
__________________
Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
WoodenPlank is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2012, 16:37   #17
Ruggles
Senior Member
 
Ruggles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Tejas
Posts: 8,902
Of all the ones mentioned the 6.5 would be my favorite, if I owned one

I looked at the 300 as well, seems like a great around deal. Still kinda new but seems like a future winner. Lots of good stuff there.

I went with the 6.8 this week for my my first non 5.56mm AR. While the 6.5 or the 300 would have been fine as well currently the 6.8 has the best availability of uppers and ammo. Who knows what the future holds but right now the 6.8 is the one that made the most sense for me. I can not agree it is dead, I think the 6.8 will be around for along time to come. A number of the companies involved supporting it have a strong AR heritage and the commercial distribution channels are strong currently. I also think the 6.5, 6.8 and 300 can coexist in the market place.

I would also love a 50 Beowulf but the ammo hunt for that round/caliber would just piss me off. If that is ever resolved that might be my next one.

Last edited by Ruggles; 04-30-2012 at 16:39..
Ruggles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2012, 16:51   #18
glocksterr
DirtyGlockHippy
 
glocksterr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: NC,USA
Posts: 1,298
300 is awsome indeed but not for your first and only gun.


5.56 and its cheaper ammo will let you get the trigger time you need. stand alone 300 will not unless you made of money.
glocksterr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2012, 16:59   #19
glocksterr
DirtyGlockHippy
 
glocksterr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: NC,USA
Posts: 1,298
Quote:
Originally Posted by glockbanger View Post
Ok, so you're against the 300aac at the moment because of expense and the fact it is not readily available. I appreciate the fact you would try to talk me out of it, when you believe it's not a good choice. Hmm... well what I really need is a dual purpose hunting/SD rifle that has low recoil. I don't know what all the options are. No doubt the 300aac fits the bill, but has problems. It has a lot of appeal to me because it's not a super long range caliber but will do everything I need it to. I'm not a true hunter so to speak. I like guns and am looking to purchase one rifle to suit multiple needs. Actually, the only hunting I do is spotlighting to keep deer off of our farm(with permit from game warden). When spotlighting, you rarely need to take shots over 100 yards. For fun, I've thought about taking the rifle out plinking but not doing any serious long range stuff, so probably not past 200 yards. What are the limitations of 300aac? But honestly, probably won't be shooting it that much. As far as stockpiling ammo... I've not put much thought into it. Maybe 1000 rounds would be nice with two or three extra mags.

Also we've had problems with beaver, but they tend to be more elusive so trapping works better than spotlighting. With 5.56 being quite small for white tailed deer, what rifle do you suggest to suit my needs? Does 6.8 have more appeal to you than 300aac? I'm not set on an AR, my expertise is limited and that the rifle everyone likes and seems to suggest, but it certainly wouldn't have to be an AR. As far a price goes, I'd rather do it right the first time, get the options I need, and invest what it takes to get a good, not top of the line rifle. Especially when looking at 300acc, it doesn't seem like there's a need if any to try to over do it in the accuracy dept. noting it has considerable drop past 200-300 yds.

sounds like you really need a 5.56 to me...

with the correct load .223/5.56 is nasty for whitetails inside 200.

Last edited by glocksterr; 04-30-2012 at 17:03..
glocksterr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2012, 17:05   #20
glockbanger
Senior Member
 
glockbanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 821
Where can I get more info on Grendel? Where to buy, manufacturers, cost per box, etc?
glockbanger is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 20:32.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,497
416 Members
1,081 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 16:42