[ZoomByU]

This gun my brother originally bought as his duty weapon in middle 09. He kept having problems with it failing to go into battery so he switched to glock after the academy. He sent it back to S&W and they sent it back saying it was fixed. He has shot several types of ammo and tried brand new magazines and still the same problem. He has shot it once since getting it back and we shot it again today. This is what we got six times in 3 magazines. Any insight is welcome.

[tbone1964]

looks like the ejector is popping of the case rim when feeding could be a bad spring or a bad ejector looks like you/he is using steel cased ammo... sometimes the rims on steel case ammo are a little thicker and the ejector doesnt get a good hold on the rim. does it do this with brass?
Also clean the magazine if its dirty the spring may be binding and not pushing the round up sufficiently causing a failure to feed.. never hurts to lube the magazine body slighlty

[M&P15T]

Looks filthy.

Do a deep cleaning, focusing on cleaning the extractor, feedramp and chamber, get some WWB .40 ammo, and test again.

If that doesn't solve the issues, send it into S&W.

Any chance someone's fat fingers are dragging the slide slowing it down?

[ZoomByU]

Does this clean or dirty. This was aluminum cased ammo today. Other time was with lawman brass. Does this with original three magazines and three new ones he bought.

[FLglockdude]

Will a live rounds drop in and out of the barrel easily?

[countrygun]

Looks like, if that is a loaded round that the rim of the case is not sliding up, underneath the extractor, like it should. My guesses would range from an improperly bevelled bottom edge on the extractor, to the extractor being oversized or out of position due to shape or spring tension.

[ZoomByU]

Yes drops in barrel without a problem.

[FLglockdude]

Okay, field strip the gun, and try to place a live round under the extractor claw. It should hold the case rim just tightly enough that you can lightly shake the slide and it won't fall out. From the looks of the pictures it seems the extractor could possibly be out of spec causing the round not to chamber fully.

[ZoomByU]

Ok the round will go in there but I have to kind of force it in. Once it's in there I can shake the slide violently and it wont fall out. My glock it goes in smooth and will come out if shaken violently.

[K.Kiser]

Originally Posted by ZoomByU

Ok the round will go in there but I have to kind of force it in. Once it's in there I can shake the slide violently and it wont fall out. My glock it goes in smooth and will come out if shaken violently.

I'll bet your getting somehwere now..

[FLglockdude]

Originally Posted by ZoomByU

Ok the round will go in there but I have to kind of force it in. Once it's in there I can shake the slide violently and it wont fall out. My glock it goes in smooth and will come out if shaken violently.

Sounds like you may be getting somewhere.

I would give Smith a call, share your thoughts and send the gun back. All three of the M&Ps I have had including a full size .40 have been flawless.

[countrygun]

I'm wondering if it isn't a 9mm extractor? that is if the use different ones. It would seem that a 9mm extractor would have to "reach in further"

[glock2740]

Hate to hear that. My M&P40 fullsize has been so 100% that it's my night stand gun. Great gun.

[ZoomByU]

I think I'll call on my brothers behalf, he is kinda clueless when it comes to guns. Interesting thing is that the first time he sent it back they replaced the extractor.

[ZoomByU]

Here is a pic of the feed ramp and barrel.

[voyager4520]

In every picture the rim of the casing is failing to go under the extractor claw. That suggests either a weak recoil spring, lack of lubrication, or a "tight" extractor. The extractor may be covered in residue and gunk which won't allow it to move freely enough, or for whatever other reason the extractor doesn't move freely enough or isn't fit properly.

I'd call Smith back and tell them the "fixed" gun wasn't fixed and that you'd like a prepaid shipping label to send it back again.

[fastbolt]

How experienced with shooting plastic .40's is your brother?

Although any plastic pistol might be more susceptible to shooter-induced grip stability issues, sometimes you get a particular gun that might have an issue.

The same extractor is used in all M&P's, regardless of caliber. One of the neat engineering tricks in the M&P line. They're now pretty much considered drop-in parts (although armorers were required to buy .40/.357 extractor bar gauges back after the guns were introduced, in case they had to fit an extractor).

Call S&W and ask for the gun to be checked again. In the letter included with the returned gun, list the specific ammunition brands being used. They'll probably test-fire the gun with better ammo than you're using, though.

The M&P 40's have been earning a solid reputation as ammunition tolerant, reliable functioning guns among LE users (presuming normal lubrication, of course).

[countrygun]

Originally Posted by fastbolt

How experienced with shooting plastic .40's is your brother?

Although any plastic pistol might be more susceptible to shooter-induced grip stability issues, sometimes you get a particular gun that might have an issue.

The same extractor is used in all M&P's, regardless of caliber. One of the neat engineering tricks in the M&P line. They're now pretty much considered drop-in parts (although armorers were required to buy .40/.357 extractor bar gauges back after the guns were introduced, in case they had to fit an extractor).

Call S&W and ask for the gun to be checked again. In the letter included with the returned gun, list the specific ammunition brands being used. They'll probably test-fire the gun with better ammo than you're using, though.

The M&P 40's have been earning a solid reputation as ammunition tolerant, reliable functioning guns among LE users (presuming normal lubrication, of course).

thanks for the info on the extractors. I didn't know if they used the same through out the calibers.

[Wash-ar15]

see if you can move the extractor with your finger. it might be tight or all gunked up. put a few drops of oil where it pivots and see what happens.

[fastbolt]

Originally Posted by countrygun

thanks for the info on the extractors. I didn't know if they used the same throught the calibers.

FWIW, they actually had a minor revision in the last year or so. The hooks got a bit sharper and were given a little more negative rake.

The M&P extractors are a rather robust MIM part, with a tall hook for a lot of engagement area.

Also, FWIW, last time I checked, they still didn't even offer an armorer tool in the way of an extractor bar gauge for the 9 & .45 guns (like they do with the 3rd gen guns and SW1911's). They said the tolerances of the M&P slides & extractors are such that armorers don't need bar gauges for fitting factory extractors.

[countrygun]

Originally Posted by fastbolt

FWIW, they actually had a minor revision in the last year or so. The hooks got a bit sharper and were given a little more negative rake.

The M&P extractors are a rather robust MIM part, with a tall hook for a lot of engagement area.

Also, FWIW, last time I checked, they still didn't even offer an armorer tool in the way of an extractor bar gauge for the 9 & .45 guns (like they do with the 3rd gen guns and SW1911's). They said the tolerances of the M&P slides & extractors are such that armorers don't need bar gauges for fitting factory extractors.

Hmm......I don't know that I agree with S&W decision on that score. I am still, barring any more input, of a mind to think this is an extractor problem, BUT apparently a "rare" one.

[fastbolt]

Originally Posted by countrygun

Hmm......I don't know that I agree with S&W decision on that score.

In what way? They've been doing a LOT of research and continued R&D on these guns since they were introduced in Jan '06.

Originally Posted by countrygun

I am still, barring any more input, of a mind to think this is an extractor problem, BUT apparently a "rare" one.

A tightly blocked (fitted) extractor can certainly create some feeding issues.

So, too, can an extractor that has become very dirty. (It doesn't require saturation with solvent/CLP in order to clean a hook, but just a good brushing. (Ever see one of those narrow end plastic brushes, using either copper, brass or nylon bristles?)

So, too, can an occasional ammunition issue.

Then, there's always the potential for the "wrong" combination of shooter grip stability, insufficient lube, low powered ammo and a dirty extractor to come together and create perplexing issues. An unfortunate nexus.

Many years ago, while discussing some feeding issues with one of the repair folks at the factory, I was told that high speed imaging could reveal that a tight extractor, or a round with a case rim that was just a bit too large/thick, could create a condition where the case would be unable to easily run up underneath the extractor hook. If that was the situation, the forces involved during cycling might cause the case to 'rebound' down away from the hook, making it almost seem as if it hadn't reached the hook (when in fact, it had).

This situation needs to be checked by the repair techs at the company. Maybe it needs another extractor, and/or maybe it needs a barrel adjustment (or simply another barrel).

How old is the M&P 40, anyway?

There have been some different revisions of followers for the .40 pistols (Glock doesn't have a "lock" on doing revisions for followers ).

Here are the 3 revisions of the .40 followers (oldest to newest from left-to-right in both pictures). The newer ones position the rounds a bit higher (and the last round more centered), for optimal feeding in the fast-cycling .40 guns.



This picture shows the oldest (bottom) and the current one (top), and shows how the rounds have better support, and the follower is better positioned (against tipping) in the mag tube with the current follower.


If your brother's mags don't have the current followers (displaying 40 on top), call and ask for some to be sent to you.

[fastbolt]

BTW, we were told that one of the reasons for the larger, more robust area on the leading shoulder of the large extractor hook was to help reduce the potential for damage to the hook if a stuck case required repeated attempts (slide manipulations) to clear the chamber.

While they still do not recommend that the barrel chamber is ever loaded by dropping a round into it (versus feeding from the magazine, as is intended), they recognized that a stoppage clearance technique (stuck case) might require letting the slide (and therefore the extractor) run forward to get another purchase on the case rim, so they wanted to make the extractor hook strong enough to resist damage to the hook if that were required for clearance.

[countrygun]

Originally Posted by fastbolt

In what way? They've been doing a LOT of research and continued R&D on these guns since they were introduced in Jan '06.




A tightly blocked (fitted) extractor can certainly create some feeding .

I am just thinking, that if there are several different forms of extractor maybe the factory should have a tool available to make diagnosis quicker

[Roger G23]

Looks like steel cased ammo. We all know it's crap compared to brass. Just my .02