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Old 05-09-2012, 16:04   #1
ZoomByU
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What is causing this? (M & P 40)

This gun my brother originally bought as his duty weapon in middle 09. He kept having problems with it failing to go into battery so he switched to glock after the academy. He sent it back to S&W and they sent it back saying it was fixed. He has shot several types of ammo and tried brand new magazines and still the same problem. He has shot it once since getting it back and we shot it again today. This is what we got six times in 3 magazines. Any insight is welcome.

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Old 05-09-2012, 16:14   #2
tbone1964
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looks like the ejector is popping of the case rim when feeding could be a bad spring or a bad ejector looks like you/he is using steel cased ammo... sometimes the rims on steel case ammo are a little thicker and the ejector doesnt get a good hold on the rim. does it do this with brass?
Also clean the magazine if its dirty the spring may be binding and not pushing the round up sufficiently causing a failure to feed.. never hurts to lube the magazine body slighlty

Last edited by tbone1964; 05-09-2012 at 16:17..
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Old 05-09-2012, 16:19   #3
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Looks filthy.

Do a deep cleaning, focusing on cleaning the extractor, feedramp and chamber, get some WWB .40 ammo, and test again.

If that doesn't solve the issues, send it into S&W.

Any chance someone's fat fingers are dragging the slide slowing it down?
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Old 05-09-2012, 16:28   #4
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Does this clean or dirty. This was aluminum cased ammo today. Other time was with lawman brass. Does this with original three magazines and three new ones he bought.
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Old 05-09-2012, 17:27   #5
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Will a live rounds drop in and out of the barrel easily?
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Old 05-09-2012, 17:41   #6
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Looks like, if that is a loaded round that the rim of the case is not sliding up, underneath the extractor, like it should. My guesses would range from an improperly bevelled bottom edge on the extractor, to the extractor being oversized or out of position due to shape or spring tension.

Last edited by countrygun; 05-09-2012 at 19:47..
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Old 05-09-2012, 17:41   #7
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Yes drops in barrel without a problem.
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Old 05-09-2012, 17:57   #8
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Okay, field strip the gun, and try to place a live round under the extractor claw. It should hold the case rim just tightly enough that you can lightly shake the slide and it won't fall out. From the looks of the pictures it seems the extractor could possibly be out of spec causing the round not to chamber fully.
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Old 05-09-2012, 18:34   #9
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Ok the round will go in there but I have to kind of force it in. Once it's in there I can shake the slide violently and it wont fall out. My glock it goes in smooth and will come out if shaken violently.
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Old 05-09-2012, 18:40   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZoomByU View Post
Ok the round will go in there but I have to kind of force it in. Once it's in there I can shake the slide violently and it wont fall out. My glock it goes in smooth and will come out if shaken violently.
I'll bet your getting somehwere now..
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Old 05-09-2012, 20:04   #11
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Originally Posted by ZoomByU View Post
Ok the round will go in there but I have to kind of force it in. Once it's in there I can shake the slide violently and it wont fall out. My glock it goes in smooth and will come out if shaken violently.
Sounds like you may be getting somewhere.

I would give Smith a call, share your thoughts and send the gun back. All three of the M&Ps I have had including a full size .40 have been flawless.
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Old 05-09-2012, 20:09   #12
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I'm wondering if it isn't a 9mm extractor? that is if the use different ones. It would seem that a 9mm extractor would have to "reach in further"
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Old 05-09-2012, 20:10   #13
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Hate to hear that. My M&P40 fullsize has been so 100% that it's my night stand gun. Great gun.
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Old 05-09-2012, 20:23   #14
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I think I'll call on my brothers behalf, he is kinda clueless when it comes to guns. Interesting thing is that the first time he sent it back they replaced the extractor.
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Old 05-09-2012, 21:12   #15
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Here is a pic of the feed ramp and barrel.

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Old 05-10-2012, 05:42   #16
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In every picture the rim of the casing is failing to go under the extractor claw. That suggests either a weak recoil spring, lack of lubrication, or a "tight" extractor. The extractor may be covered in residue and gunk which won't allow it to move freely enough, or for whatever other reason the extractor doesn't move freely enough or isn't fit properly.

I'd call Smith back and tell them the "fixed" gun wasn't fixed and that you'd like a prepaid shipping label to send it back again.
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Old 05-10-2012, 09:56   #17
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How experienced with shooting plastic .40's is your brother?

Although any plastic pistol might be more susceptible to shooter-induced grip stability issues, sometimes you get a particular gun that might have an issue.

The same extractor is used in all M&P's, regardless of caliber. One of the neat engineering tricks in the M&P line. They're now pretty much considered drop-in parts (although armorers were required to buy .40/.357 extractor bar gauges back after the guns were introduced, in case they had to fit an extractor).

Call S&W and ask for the gun to be checked again. In the letter included with the returned gun, list the specific ammunition brands being used. They'll probably test-fire the gun with better ammo than you're using, though.

The M&P 40's have been earning a solid reputation as ammunition tolerant, reliable functioning guns among LE users (presuming normal lubrication, of course).
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Old 05-10-2012, 10:20   #18
countrygun
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Originally Posted by fastbolt View Post
How experienced with shooting plastic .40's is your brother?

Although any plastic pistol might be more susceptible to shooter-induced grip stability issues, sometimes you get a particular gun that might have an issue.

The same extractor is used in all M&P's, regardless of caliber. One of the neat engineering tricks in the M&P line. They're now pretty much considered drop-in parts (although armorers were required to buy .40/.357 extractor bar gauges back after the guns were introduced, in case they had to fit an extractor).

Call S&W and ask for the gun to be checked again. In the letter included with the returned gun, list the specific ammunition brands being used. They'll probably test-fire the gun with better ammo than you're using, though.

The M&P 40's have been earning a solid reputation as ammunition tolerant, reliable functioning guns among LE users (presuming normal lubrication, of course).
thanks for the info on the extractors. I didn't know if they used the same through out the calibers.

Last edited by countrygun; 05-10-2012 at 10:41..
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Old 05-10-2012, 10:30   #19
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see if you can move the extractor with your finger. it might be tight or all gunked up. put a few drops of oil where it pivots and see what happens.
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Old 05-10-2012, 10:44   #20
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thanks for the info on the extractors. I didn't know if they used the same throught the calibers.
FWIW, they actually had a minor revision in the last year or so. The hooks got a bit sharper and were given a little more negative rake.

The M&P extractors are a rather robust MIM part, with a tall hook for a lot of engagement area.

Also, FWIW, last time I checked, they still didn't even offer an armorer tool in the way of an extractor bar gauge for the 9 & .45 guns (like they do with the 3rd gen guns and SW1911's). They said the tolerances of the M&P slides & extractors are such that armorers don't need bar gauges for fitting factory extractors.
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