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Old 05-10-2012, 15:18   #1
Kingarthurhk
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Evidence of Jesus Christ

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Old 05-10-2012, 15:38   #2
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It's believed that most of the disciples and Paul were brutally martyred. They could have walked away from it with denouncement. They witnessed the supernatural power of God, and the resurrection of Christ. They knew it was real, and were willing to die for it. That has always spoke volumes to me.
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Old 05-10-2012, 15:42   #3
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That is the single greatest proof: if Jesus did NOT come back from the dead as He said he would, the "following" would have dissipated and gone away over time. Instead his followers chose to be killed rather than deny Him.
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Old 05-10-2012, 15:46   #4
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Jesus was probably a real man. With real followers who had impact on Judaism in that area in that time. That's why they gave him to the Romans to be crucified.

Some probably continued his "work" and it evolved into the Christianity we know it today as it was mixed with pagan rituals and believes of the time in Europe.

The miracles, Resurrection, being the son of god etc. is all made up. If Jesus claimed to be the son of god and that he is the messiah then all he had was the Jerusalem syndrome.
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Old 05-10-2012, 15:57   #5
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Old 05-10-2012, 16:14   #6
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It's believed that most of the disciples and Paul were brutally martyred.
Believed based on what exactly?
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They could have walked away from it with denouncement. They witnessed the supernatural power of God, and the resurrection of Christ. They knew it was real, and were willing to die for it. That has always spoke volumes to me.
Does someone believing something, even fervently and without any doubt, make it true?
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Old 05-10-2012, 16:34   #7
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That is the single greatest proof: if Jesus did NOT come back from the dead as He said he would, the "following" would have dissipated and gone away over time. Instead his followers chose to be killed rather than deny Him.
"The blood of the martyrs is [the] seed [of the church]."
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Old 05-10-2012, 16:36   #8
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Jesus was probably a real man. With real followers who had impact on Judaism in that area in that time. That's why they gave him to the Romans to be crucified.

Some probably continued his "work" and it evolved into the Christianity we know it today as it was mixed with pagan rituals and believes of the time in Europe.

The miracles, Resurrection, being the son of god etc. is all made up. If Jesus claimed to be the son of god and that he is the messiah then all he had was the Jerusalem syndrome.


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Old 05-10-2012, 16:37   #9
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Does someone believing something, even fervently and without any doubt, make it true?
IF they are in a position to KNOW, unambiguously, whether the claims are in fact true (i.e. they themselves were witnesses of the things happening or not happening), then this is extremely compelling evidence.
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Old 05-10-2012, 16:47   #10
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IF they are in a position to KNOW, unambiguously, whether the claims are in fact true (i.e. they themselves were witnesses of the things happening or not happening), then this is extremely compelling evidence.
Thousands of people claim they have seen UFO's. Since these are eyewitness accounts, I believe that they fall under the heading " they are in a position to KNOW, unambiguously, whether the claims are in fact true". They've written books and formed groups. Their membership includes people who would otherwise be granted respect and would be taken seriously.

Yet most reasonable, rational and logical people take their claims, at the very least, with a grain of salt. At best we think they are mistaken in what they thought they saw, at worst they're considered fruitcakes with an extra helping of nuts.
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Old 05-10-2012, 16:50   #11
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Thousands of people claim they have seen UFO's. Since these are eyewitness accounts, I believe that they fall under the heading " they are in a position to KNOW, unambiguously, whether the claims are in fact true". They've written books and formed groups. Their membership includes people who would otherwise be granted respect and would be taken seriously.

Yet most reasonable, rational and logical people take their claims, at the very least, with a grain of salt. At best we think they are mistaken in what they thought they saw, at worst they're considered fruitcakes with an extra helping of nuts.
Well, there are independant historical accounts, as has been proven. Then if you take into account the 300 Old Testament predicitions that Jesus fulfilled, there is overwhelming evidence that not only Jesus existed, but He was who He claimed to be.
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Old 05-10-2012, 16:55   #12
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Thousands of people claim they have seen UFO's. Since these are eyewitness accounts, I believe that they fall under the heading " they are in a position to KNOW, unambiguously, whether the claims are in fact true". They've written books and formed groups. Their membership includes people who would otherwise be granted respect and would be taken seriously.

Yet most reasonable, rational and logical people take their claims, at the very least, with a grain of salt. At best we think they are mistaken in what they thought they saw, at worst they're considered fruitcakes with an extra helping of nuts.
How many of them have gone to their deaths in order to defend these beliefs, rather than simply renounce them? Or even more accurately, NOT renounce these beliefs but acknowledge that some other belief which was slightly contradictory could be true? The analogy I'm trying to draw is the fact that the disciples died rather than simply acknowledge the Roman gods, or Caesar. They would not even have had to renounce Jesus.
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Old 05-10-2012, 17:00   #13
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Well, there are independant historical accounts, as has been proven. Then if you take into account the 300 Old Testament predicitions that Jesus fulfilled, there is overwhelming evidence that not only Jesus existed, but He was who He claimed to be.
Yup, and there have been independent accounts of UFO's. People describing similar experiences with being abducted, probed and tagged like a wild animal under observation.

Yup, 300 prophesies that someone supposedly fulfilled 2000 years ago, and the prophesies were written long before that. Easy enough to rewrite history from the last century, much less a few thousand years ago.

You'll have to pardon me if I cant take such claims seriously.
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Old 05-10-2012, 17:05   #14
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How many of them have gone to their deaths in order to defend these beliefs, rather than simply renounce them? Or even more accurately, NOT renounce these beliefs but acknowledge that some other belief which was slightly contradictory could be true? The analogy I'm trying to draw is the fact that the disciples died rather than simply acknowledge the Roman gods, or Caesar. They would not even have had to renounce Jesus.
Again, just because someone believes something enough to sacrifice their life to it, does not make it true. It just makes them believers. Those lunatics of the Heavens Gate cult took their own lives in the belief that Gods Spaceship was in the tail of Haley's Comet, I'm pretty sure they aint "going where no man has gone before" as we speak.

I'm sure some of the people on this board believe fervently enough to die for your beliefs. And if you did so, it still wouldn't be evidence that what you believe is true. It would be evidence of the power of your belief.
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Old 05-10-2012, 17:12   #15
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Yup, and there have been independent accounts of UFO's. People describing similar experiences with being abducted, probed and tagged like a wild animal under observation.

Yup, 300 prophesies that someone supposedly fulfilled 2000 years ago, and the prophesies were written long before that. Easy enough to rewrite history from the last century, much less a few thousand years ago.

You'll have to pardon me if I cant take such claims seriously.
Jesus Christ Fulfilled Over 300 Prophecies, concerning His First Appearance,Written About Him over a Period of about 2000 years. George Heron, calculated the odds of one man fulfilling only 40 of those Prophecies are 1 in 10 followed by 157 zeros. Compare this to,"The Estimated Number of Electrons in the Universe are around 10 followed by 79 zeros."Jesus did not fulfill these prophecies by accident.

Also, your UFO analogy doesn't fit the argument. Now, if you want to be honest and say you don't want to believe despite the historical and astronomical odds when it comes to the prophecies he did fulfill that is your decision.

However, to dismiss the evidence out of hand is disengenuous.
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Old 05-10-2012, 17:13   #16
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Thousands of people claim they have seen UFO's. Since these are eyewitness accounts, I believe that they fall under the heading " they are in a position to KNOW, unambiguously, whether the claims are in fact true". They've written books and formed groups. Their membership includes people who would otherwise be granted respect and would be taken seriously.

Yet most reasonable, rational and logical people take their claims, at the very least, with a grain of salt. At best we think they are mistaken in what they thought they saw, at worst they're considered fruitcakes with an extra helping of nuts.
How many of them have gone to their death because of their testimony and continued to proclaim as to the truth of the UFO's all the way to their last breath even if denying it would have saved their life?
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Old 05-10-2012, 17:19   #17
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Jesus Christ Fulfilled Over 300 Prophecies, concerning His First Appearance,Written About Him over a Period of about 2000 years. George Heron, calculated the odds of one man fulfilling only 40 of those Prophecies are 1 in 10 followed by 157 zeros. Compare this to,"The Estimated Number of Electrons in the Universe are around 10 followed by 79 zeros."Jesus did not fulfill these prophecies by accident.

Also, your UFO analogy doesn't fit the argument. Now, if you want to be honest and say you don't want to believe despite the historical and astronomical odds when it comes to the prophecies he did fulfill that is your decision.

However, to dismiss the evidence out of hand is disengenuous.
IMO the evidence is easy to dismiss, since all it is is eyewitness accounts from centuries ago.

Again, sorry.

Unfortunately I gotta go to work
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Old 05-10-2012, 17:34   #18
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IMO the evidence is easy to dismiss, since all it is is eyewitness accounts from centuries ago.

Again, sorry.

Unfortunately I gotta go to work
Yes, from actual primary historical evidence. It is not so easy to dismiss. My frustration is the typical mantra around here is "give me evidence" and when it is given it is blown off or dimissed. A little intellectual honesty would be nice.
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Old 05-10-2012, 17:48   #19
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Does someone believing something, even fervently and without any doubt, make it true?
You are ignoring the obvious: if a man said He was the son of God and would rise from the dead..... and was full of baloney, who would then choose to stay loyal even unto accepting death before denouncing Him?

Nobody would. But if they witnessed the resurrection and were so completely convinced He was God, they would.
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Old 05-10-2012, 19:17   #20
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How is it a prophecy if it's documented after the fact?

And all those old testament "prophecies" can be interpreted in so many ways. Like any biblical "prophecy" they are all twisted to match up events.

When someone finally correctly predicts the rapture by showing us it is written and dated in the bible then I'll believe.

Until then, bunch of Baloney.
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