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Old 05-20-2012, 20:48   #1
RYT 2BER
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Who the hell copied who!?!?

I dunno if this has been discussed?

Anyway did these guys copy keltec or did keltec copy them??

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct1213.aspx

Cause this looks ALOT like a KSG
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Old 05-20-2012, 21:02   #2
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I'm pretty sure they both copied someone else. I don't recall who came up with the concept originally.
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Old 05-20-2012, 21:09   #3
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Whom. It's whom.
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Old 05-20-2012, 21:50   #4
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Whom. It's whom.

And out comes the grammar nazi.
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Old 05-20-2012, 22:02   #5
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The way it operates looks a lot different than the KSG.
The more guns the merrier.
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Old 05-20-2012, 22:13   #6
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And out comes the grammar nazi.
Hey, if people want to run around looking illiterate that's their business.

But really, thanks for taking a moment to champion the further degradation of the English language amigo.
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Old 05-20-2012, 22:16   #7
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Who the hell copied who!?!?

Whom the hell copied who!?!?
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Old 05-20-2012, 22:20   #8
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If anything it's a modification of the Neostead, which, 10-15 years ago, pioneered the overhead twin magazine.

The Neostead pumped "backwards" (you pumped forward first), and ejected downward. This one ejects to the side, but uses a magazine somewhat like the Neostead's except it doesn't pop up to load at the breech end, it has loading gates.
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Old 05-20-2012, 22:25   #9
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Originally Posted by ChuteTheMall View Post
Whom the hell copied who!?!?
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Old 05-20-2012, 23:01   #10
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Looked like it had a little trouble ejecting at 2:20.
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Old 05-21-2012, 00:38   #11
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Side ejection on bullpup. Nice. Love to see the video of this guy switching hands.

They both stem from the same South African concept but bottom ejection is enough to make KSG a clear winner in my book.

Question is did KSG make such an impact as to warrant the expense of building copycat?
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Old 05-21-2012, 01:56   #12
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Is it kel tec and diamondback or maybe the LCP!
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:43   #13
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Hey, if people want to run around looking illiterate that's their business.

But really, thanks for taking a moment to champion the further degradation of the English language amigo.


Wow. This is an internet gun forum. Not a college term paper. Nobody cares about proper sentance structure and double spacing.

Anyway, I like the layout of the Kel-Tec better. I like the magazine tubes under the barrel, not over it.
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Old 05-21-2012, 09:29   #14
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For the record, who is a subjective pronoun and whom is an objective pronoun... so the thread would in fact be correctly entitled "Who the hell copied whom?" The trick I use is to replace who/whom with he/him in the simplified sentence. For example, he copied him. Where "he" or "she" makes sense, who is appropriate. Where "him" or "her" seems correct... whom is likely appropriate.

On the other hand, I'm with Will Safire on the subject. Best to just construct all of your sentences in such a way as not to run into the problem. That way you can keep a big block of memory available for more important things (baseball stats... gun trivia... the actual lyrics to heart shaped box... seriously, basically everything is more important). If it makes any of you feel any better, "whom" is widely thought to be on it's way out of the language... so in a generation or two it won't be a problem. For the best, the only thing more prone to hypercorrection (sometimes incorrect hypercorrection) is the use of "because" to start a sentence. It's allowed, no matter what your 9th grade English teacher said... it's a subordinating conjunction dammit, why wouldn't you be able to begin a sentence with it!?!

I uh... was an English major during my first try at college... this stuff came up a lot...

More to the point, the kel-tec looks pretty different. I think they were probably both developed based on the same parent model rather than copied from one or the other. Without ever having had the opportunity to hold either, I believe I'd prefer the kel-tec.
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Old 05-21-2012, 09:42   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brisk21 View Post
Wow. This is an internet gun forum. Not a college term paper. Nobody cares about proper sentance structure and double spacing.

Anyway, I like the layout of the Kel-Tec better. I like the magazine tubes under the barrel, not over it.
Sure we do, or there wouldn't be people correcting others.

Whether you agree or not, spelling, punctuation, grammar and the rest, are important. It's far better to learn your lessons and be corrected here, on G.T., rather than at work, where you will make yourself look unprofessional and uneducated.
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Old 05-21-2012, 09:52   #16
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OR we could ignore the fact that people make mistakes, and get back on topic.
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Old 05-21-2012, 10:35   #17
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OR we could ignore the fact that people make mistakes, and get back on topic.




Heaven forbid we do that.
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Old 05-21-2012, 10:38   #18
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Whom. It's whom.

On first?
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Old 05-21-2012, 10:38   #19
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Nobody complained about sentance yet.......doh!
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Old 05-21-2012, 11:03   #20
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Reminded me of the H&K G11 when I first saw it. It's made in Turkey, apparently--it's interesting that they didn't mention that in the video. I'd like to try one if the price isn't crazy.
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Old 05-21-2012, 11:37   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boats View Post
Hey, if people want to run around looking illiterate that's their business.

But really, thanks for taking a moment to champion the further degradation of the English language amigo.
A comma is needed between "language" and "amigo".
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Old 05-21-2012, 12:18   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMurphy View Post
If anything it's a modification of the Neostead, which, 10-15 years ago, pioneered the overhead twin magazine.

The Neostead pumped "backwards" (you pumped forward first), and ejected downward. This one ejects to the side, but uses a magazine somewhat like the Neostead's except it doesn't pop up to load at the breech end, it has loading gates.
Noonly that, when you pumped the Neostead, the whole barrel moved forward.

the Kel Tec doesnt do that.
The Neostead had a setting to alternate feeding from both magazines, the KT does not, but apparently this new one does. If I am going to have to reach in and flip the switch, I'd almost rather have a single-magazine (& lighter/narrower/simpler/less $$) version.
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Old 05-21-2012, 12:43   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brisk21 View Post
Wow. This is an internet gun forum. Not a college term paper. Nobody cares about proper sentance structure and double spacing.

Anyway, I like the layout of the Kel-Tec better. I like the magazine tubes under the barrel, not over it.
KSG has magazines above barrel but is loaded from underneath, through jection port.
Ksg Is a full 2" shorter with same length barrel. KSG has a lever to select whuch magazine feeds.

KSG has 2 6 round magazines, and reportedly feeds shells as short as 1 3/4".

This new one loads from the top left and right, has doors over the loading area which appear important to the operation, and looks like it still adds another tube below the barrel for no apparent reason. Also, side ejection bullpup wtf?

Maybe this will inspire others to come up with competing designs.

Other than the magazine selection lever, the KSG I held felt pretty handy.
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Old 05-21-2012, 14:46   #24
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Originally Posted by Boats View Post
Whom.
That is not a complete sentence, and that's coming from someone you'd consider an illiterate.
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Old 05-21-2012, 14:52   #25
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Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
A comma is needed between "language" and "amigo".
He wrote two sentences and there are enough mistakes in his post that I ran out of fingers counting them, and, I'm illiterate.
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