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Old 05-22-2012, 21:26   #21
concretefuzzynuts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g29reload View Post
i'm capable of self defense right damn now if necessary.
You. Are. Awesome. Sir.
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Old 05-22-2012, 21:33   #22
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If you are not capable, then you should not be carrying.
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Old 05-23-2012, 02:46   #23
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I'll put it this way. Having to hurt anyone isn't something that I want to do. Ever. With that said, if it came to what the OP is speaking of, I would be looking for a way to stay from the said encounters.

If I did for some reason find myself in a position in which I had to defend myself, I would not hesitate to use whatever force necessary to protect myself. Even if that meant that I had to take the life of another person.

I don't want that to ever happen but I'm prepared to protect myself and not become a statistic.
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Old 05-23-2012, 04:32   #24
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The bottom line is to avoid violence. I think if a civilians loved ones or supplies are threaten most will stand up and defend them.
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Old 05-23-2012, 04:49   #25
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As a CCW permit-holder, I've made the conscious decision that, if necessary, I will shoot someone who is immediately endangering my life, my family's lives, or is committing a felony during which I feel that someone else life is in imminent danger. In this I am supported by the rule of law.

As such, I prepare myself to act decisively and responsibly should the need for such action arise. In a defensive situation, the biggest error one can make is not recognizing an imminent threat in time. The second worst is not acting decisively enough to defeat it.

SHTF presents some additional considerations. Namely, protection of property. I believe that in a situation where I'm forced into a survival mode brought about by the loss of societal checks and balances, the rules will change, and an assault on my property will become an assault which puts me in imminent danger. In a SHTF scenario, where the rule of law is absent, or greatly reduced, I will defend myself, my family, and my property against attack.
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Old 05-23-2012, 07:00   #26
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This is a great subject that we could (and many people should) discuss over a beer. Unfortunately in our litigious society, I can only contemplate a response that I will not give in a permanent and written format.

That being said...

I am willing to negotiate with those who wish to do me, and my family, harm.
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Old 05-23-2012, 09:45   #27
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I don't see what is so hard about "It's either me or them". When they have initiated it, I would have no problem doing what I need to do.
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Old 05-23-2012, 10:29   #28
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If presented with no alternative, I will fight to defend myself, family, etc. But I will always seek to avoid a violent encounter until it cannot be avoided.
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Old 05-23-2012, 19:45   #29
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This pretty much sums up how I feel on the subject.
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Old 05-24-2012, 01:55   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TangoFoxtrot View Post
The bottom line is to avoid violence. I think if a civilians loved ones or supplies are threaten most will stand up and defend them.



I dunno, there's an awful lot of credible evidence that indicates most people will not willingly kill another human being without some significant conditioning.


For anyone who's interested, Col Grossman has a very informative book "On Killing" that gets into the nitty gritty of it.


But the long and short of it is, that most people, will not kill others. And that even though we've greatly increased our training to get people to fire, we're still struggling with getting people to actually aim to kill the enemy.
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Old 05-24-2012, 04:54   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctaGlockta View Post
Have you ever been attacked before by someone that wanted to inflict harm on you or a loved one and what did you do?

I have been in some interesting situations earlier in my life..

Attacked by those wielding a chain, or broken bottles, or guns, or knives, or wooden batons/boards/tool handles, etc..

..or a combo of the above..

..one "friendly fire" close call was late one night when a Turkish soldier with a bayonet on his locked & loaded G3 jumped out of the bushes onto the road..

..yelled "Dur"...with his weapon pointed at me & him in a "not budging an inch" stance...

..with (long hair & fu-manchu mustache) me running full bore towards him down a hill in civilian clothes in a leather coat carrying a black bag. After he jumped out, I started yelling "Hava Asker, Hava Asker" & stopped so short his bayonet cut thru my coat & pricked my chest. Still amazed he did not pull the trigger (we were forbidden to wear uniforms off site
{TUSLOG Det 121} & had 35-10 hair waivers due to assassinations by leftist terrorists...I had just arrived back on site..I guess to him I looked like a leftist terrorist with a bomb... http://www.zone-interdite.net/P/zone_2930.html)

One of the most frightening was when I was just a skinny kid in the 9th grade...cornered in a darkened high school basement stairway & being robbed by a gang of "underprivileged minorities" with their knives & sharpened 'rakes' being pressed to my chest, throat & face. My new northside lily white high school had recently complied with a desegregation order (we had sold our home & moved away from a bad south-end neighborhood to get away from that sort of thing) & now had an influx of too-old-to-be-in-high-school-thugs...basically throwing wolves in a sheep pen! The next year, the entire 10th grade was then bussed across town to an all minority high school!! Interesting year that was!!
Easy to empathize with Bernhard Goetz during those years!


One such attack necessitated an ER visit..(the chain)

..the chain attack, the knife attack & a few others left permanent scarring..

..stabbed with a pencil a couple of times..

..still have a rise below my wrist from a tool handle being broken over my arm.

Been thrown thru a wall on more than one occasion!


In response...people have gotten injured...some seriously.. (I will leave it at that)..

..and I have used a firearm on more than one occasion to stop an assault!

I have stayed in an area so bad (drug deals, prostitution & gang activity...gunfire in parking lot), every time my roommate & I exited our room at night, our pistols were in hand (low ready) & we were providing mutual cover to make it safely to our vehicles. It was like a bad B-movie!

Situational awareness, posture, bearing (& my adult size ) have stopped many others without presenting a weapon!

Observation skills, situational awareness & divine providence were key in my recognizing the prep work of 3 operatives in a pending terrorist attack in Yesilköy, near Istanbul..

..a previous attack by the same cell had cut short the lives of 4 Americans (3 contractors & 1 NCO)!

The next would have almost certainly claimed at least 6 to 8 or more Americans...possibly myself included.

I consider that long ago incident my greatest achievement in life...so far!




Concerning the mindset of physical violence & predatory behavior...have read several books recently on the subject..

..in the order of those I liked best to worst...

"Facing Violence: Preparing for the Unexpected"





"The Little Black Book on Violence: What Every Young Man Needs To Know About Fighting"





"The Gift of Fear"






Wish they were around when I was younger..

..but I learned the hard way!


As far as using deadly force to protect the innocent..

One of my old quotes (now copyrighted? & on t-shirts by an enterprising relative)..

"Making the World a Better Place....One Bullet at a Time"


YMMV
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Old 05-24-2012, 05:14   #32
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Most people don't know how to apply violence in my opinion. I would rather be insulted to death and walk away from a fight and have done just that more than once. There is however a time for action and knowing when that is and not hesitating is the key to saving my life and the survival of my family or some innocent person. This is where most people screw up, not recognizing a deadly threat until it is too late or mistaking a hothead or or junkie for a physical threat when you can walk away from them if you have the ego for it.

That said I have a strong moral compass and a desire to protect the innocent that is very strong, so yes, I would not be bothered by using deadly force if I had to, and no I would not shoot someone that I could walk away from.
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Old 05-24-2012, 07:46   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AK_Stick View Post
I dunno, there's an awful lot of credible evidence that indicates most people will not willingly kill another human being without some significant conditioning.


For anyone who's interested, Col Grossman has a very informative book "On Killing" that gets into the nitty gritty of it.


But the long and short of it is, that most people, will not kill others. And that even though we've greatly increased our training to get people to fire, we're still struggling with getting people to actually aim to kill the enemy.
This is exactly the reason I started the thread.

It is easy to say what one would do. But I feel is it foolish not to really examine what you would be capable of doing in a SHTF situation of any sort.

In fact not really looking deep into that subject could get yourself or others in deep trouble or even killed.

If you have been in a situation where someone has tried to cause you harm and you had to fight back then you know what you are capable of. If you have not then you need to think about it. Perhaps read up on the subject - the books mentioned are appreciated. LG1 appreciate your input.

Just something I think is important for those who are preparing. Hadn't seen the subject discussed here.
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Old 05-24-2012, 07:52   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctaGlockta View Post
This is exactly the reason I started the thread.

It is easy to say what one would do. But I feel is it foolish not to really examine what you would be capable of doing in a SHTF situation of any sort.

In fact not really looking deep into that subject could get yourself or others in deep trouble or even killed.

If you have been in a situation where someone has tried to cause you harm and you had to fight back then you know what you are capable of. If you have not then you need to think about it. Perhaps read up on the subject - the books mentioned are appreciated. LG1 appreciate your input.

Just something I think is important for those who are preparing. Hadn't seen the subject discussed here.
Good post! Been there, done that, made up my mind that the innocent get protected at almost any cost and the guilty must be stopped at almost any cost from raping and killing the innocent.
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Old 05-24-2012, 07:54   #35
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The truth is, some people can and will, and some people can't and won't.

And, from experience, it is sometimes really hard to tell who will be one way or the other, until that time comes.

The only ones who know for sure, are the ones who have already been there.
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Old 05-24-2012, 20:18   #36
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Yes I would, but I'd really rather rather not unless absolutely necessary.

+1,000,000 to "insulted to death and walk away"
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Old 05-25-2012, 06:32   #37
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The better question might be how many of us fight regularly and/or train regularly for the fight?

Here's a clue- the fight may involve more than just firearms
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Old 05-25-2012, 12:24   #38
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Originally Posted by AK_Stick View Post
For anyone who's interested, Col Grossman has a very informative book "On Killing" that gets into the nitty gritty of it.
There is a difference between tossing a 19 year old on a line with a rifle and saying "kill the enemy".

versus

Those people there want to steal your food, rape your daughters and kill the rest of your family. . so shoot back. .
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Old 05-26-2012, 23:26   #39
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There was a study dun some years back that questioned how far a person off the street would go when told by a person in control that every thing was fine. The set up was that the person off the street was told to push a red button every time a person got a question wrong and the yellow when they got it right. The control person would ask a question then tell the person off the street if the person got it right or not then he or she was to push the right button. If he pushed the red button he would here the person scream in pain. Out of the 100 people tested only eight refused to push the red button and out of the 100 two got up and walked out before they wold push the red button and hurt another person. That means that 82% of people would hurt some one because they were told to by a person in control. Now if they do that with nothing on the line what will they do to keep them and there family fed or safe? I think that most of mankind is about two steps from being animals. Look all around us the wars and what we do to each other. Yes we will kill and hurt each other. We do it every day around the world. Hear in the United States it just hasn't gotten that bad yet but we are all capable of great evil. We have proved it to many times.

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Old 05-27-2012, 06:46   #40
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There was a study dun some years back that questioned how far a person off the street would go when told by a person in control that every thing was fine. The set up was that the person off the street was told to push a red button every time a person got a question wrong and the yellow when they got it right. The control person would ask a question then tell the person off the street if the person got it right or not then he or she was to push the right button. If he pushed the red button he would here the person scream in pain. Out of the 100 people tested only eight refused to push the red button and out of the 100 two got up and walked out before they wold push the red button and hurt another person. That means that 82% of people would hurt some one because they were told to by a person in control. Now if they do that with nothing on the line what will they do to keep them and there family fed or safe? I think that most of mankind is about two steps from being animals. Look all around us the wars and what we do to each other. Yes we will kill and hurt each other. We do it every day around the world. Hear in the United States it just hasn't gotten that bad yet but we are all capable of great evil. We have proved it to many times.
That study was discredited years ago.

But, to your point, deprive people of food or limit calories and you can get people to do a lot of things to get food.
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