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Old 07-27-2012, 00:18   #276
bigmoney890
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warp View Post

I'd mostly just like to see the data all in one location/post/consecutive series of posts

That was my main reason for asking, but I feel like if he started a completely new thread, it would cut down the random chatter. Until someone new started up with the trolling and such. But at least the thread wouldn't have a couple hundred non-op related posts to read through.

But I'm in favor of a new thread!
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Old 07-27-2012, 06:53   #277
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After the next tests, we plan on putting all of the data collected so far in a table type format and putting a link to that table in this thread, that way we can simply add data to the table and announce the updates while using this thread to discuss the data.
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Old 07-27-2012, 09:56   #278
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Perfect.
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Old 07-27-2012, 12:04   #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Courtney View Post
After the next tests, we plan on putting all of the data collected so far in a table type format and putting a link to that table in this thread, that way we can simply add data to the table and announce the updates while using this thread to discuss the data.
Sounds great
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Old 08-01-2012, 17:00   #280
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ill be following considering im wanting a s&w 15 sport
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Old 08-14-2012, 20:47   #281
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I know it has been a while guys, but they get shot when they get shot. Both have round counts of 1200. Accuracy evals will be done Saturday if the wind cooperates and I should have all the data organized on a table and published by Monday.
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Old 08-15-2012, 06:16   #282
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I know it has been a while guys, but they get shot when they get shot. Both have round counts of 1200. <snip>
<snip dpe>

Last edited by WASRfan; 08-15-2012 at 06:19..
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Old 08-15-2012, 06:19   #283
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I know it has been a while guys, but they get shot when they get shot. Both have round counts of 1200. <snip>
Per weekend outing, or GRAND TOTAL each?

Reason I ask is you know the koolaiders that denigrate any AR choice but Colt, Noveske, DD will say that they do this on any given Saturday, and that your not "runnin' 'em hard".
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Old 08-15-2012, 08:15   #284
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Originally Posted by WASRfan View Post
Per weekend outing, or GRAND TOTAL each?

Reason I ask is you know the koolaiders that denigrate any AR choice but Colt, Noveske, DD will say that they do this on any given Saturday, and that your not "runnin' 'em hard".
Total. When they get shot in a class, they go 400/day, but because they are rentals and most guys bring there own, it will take some time for round counts to get high. 400 rds/day is getting run hard whether it is 6 days or 60 days between each occasion of use.
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Old 08-15-2012, 09:27   #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WASRfan View Post
Per weekend outing, or GRAND TOTAL each?

Reason I ask is you know the koolaiders that denigrate any AR choice but Colt, Noveske, DD will say that they do this on any given Saturday, and that your not "runnin' 'em hard".
Quote:
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Total. When they get shot in a class, they go 400/day, but because they are rentals and most guys bring there own, it will take some time for round counts to get high. 400 rds/day is getting run hard whether it is 6 days or 60 days between each occasion of use.
Don't tell him that. He has an ax to grind and people to insult.
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Old 08-16-2012, 10:57   #286
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Don't tell him that. He has an ax to grind and people to insult.
I have no ax to grind, I hope the S&W makes a good showing here, just want to make the koolaiders happy to know the gun was "run hard".

Come to think of it, I do have an ax to grind; on koolaiders skulls that denigrate anyone that suggests that any AR other than "their brand" is a POS.
This gets real tiresome hearing thsi same crap on every AR board from these carbine-course-commandos.

I have 2 Colts myself - I just don't get islamic about it when someone asks about a S&W or DPMS or whatever.
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Old 08-19-2012, 16:53   #287
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The weather broke this afternoon and the wind laid down for a dead calm afternoon at our range. A low cloud cover gave me a near ideal environment for shooting with no mirage. I shot 22 5 shot groups at 100 yards, 11 groups each from both rifles, which was every ammo type we have fired for groups previously, except the tracers.

The rifles seem to do better since they have been broken in. Of the 22 groups, 19 were better than the previous groups with the same ammo from each rifle, respectively. 9 of the 6920 groups improved, while 10 of the Sport groups got smaller. All 3 ammo groups that did not improve were steel cased ammo, and they constituted 3/4's of the steel cased groups fired today.

I will be organizing the data into a table format this evening and/or tomorrow morning. We will publish it tomorrow. I will post a link to the data here and I look forward to a healthy discussion.
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Last edited by Matthew Courtney; 08-19-2012 at 17:03..
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Old 08-20-2012, 10:31   #288
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Here is a link to the study data-

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...3&l=14d07b1799
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Last edited by Matthew Courtney; 08-20-2012 at 10:50..
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Old 08-20-2012, 10:50   #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Courtney View Post
Any idea what would cause the large deltas with some of the ammo? For example, the Win 45gr...both rifles improved vastly with that ammo.

For the most part, looks like both are improving with use, but a couple of the results are surprising.

ETA: Thanks for posting the data

Last edited by cyphertext; 08-20-2012 at 10:51..
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Old 08-20-2012, 11:32   #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmoney890 View Post
That was my main reason for asking, but I feel like if he started a completely new thread, it would cut down the random chatter. Until someone new started up with the trolling and such. But at least the thread wouldn't have a couple hundred non-op related posts to read through.

But I'm in favor of a new thread!
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyphertext View Post
Any idea what would cause the large deltas with some of the ammo? For example, the Win 45gr...both rifles improved vastly with that ammo.

For the most part, looks like both are improving with use, but a couple of the results are surprising.

ETA: Thanks for posting the data
Wild speculation here- It was 92 degrees On 6/22/12 when we shot. It was 73 degrees on 8/19/12 when we shot. Some powders burn faster when they are warmer and the higher velocities equal more rpm. That bullet has a very thin jacket. Perhaps the higher velocities/rpm caused a couple of bullet jackets to get damaged on 6/22/12. Perhaps the brand new edges on the lands damaged a few jackets. Perhaps some combination. I don't know.

The fact that 20 out of the 22 groups fired in the tests improved between the initial tests on the new rifles and the tests after 1200 rounds is significant, but figuring out what exactly that signifies is above my pay grade. Could just be the mirage issues we had on 6/22/12.
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Last edited by Matthew Courtney; 08-20-2012 at 19:01..
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Old 08-20-2012, 13:52   #291
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[images=]http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...levant_count=1[/images]

The top Colt mag was damaged during a reloading drill and will no longer function reliably. The feed lip gap near the rear measures 14.5 mm. The working mag on the bottom measures 11.2 mm at the same location. We have pulled the bad mag from the rotation.
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Old 08-28-2012, 00:21   #292
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Quote:
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With the exception of ONE load, the SW still holds the advantage of mechanical accuracy over the Prancing Pony.
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Old 08-28-2012, 06:32   #293
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I haven't seen any reports of Rifle induced failure. Have there been any from either rifle?
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Old 08-28-2012, 07:08   #294
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I haven't seen any reports of Rifle induced failure. Have there been any from either rifle?
Nope, the only failure has been a magazine that was damaged during a reloading drill.
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Old 08-28-2012, 12:52   #295
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Nope, the only failure has been a magazine that was damaged during a reloading drill.
Some may be interested to note that there was no failure of the Colt rifle to function. The left feed lip no longer holds the left side top cartridge in the mag when there are an odd number of cartridges in the mag, so the damaged mag wasn't reloaded before being removed from the rotation.
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Old 09-28-2012, 01:34   #296
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PSA 16 inch 416 SS mid length medium weight upper on a Colt A2 Lower accuracy data compared to S&W and 6920 data.
*The PSA barrel is free floated while the S&W and Colt have OEM handguards.

Accuracy tests 8/19/2012 Dead calm* 2mph 197degrees.... 9/25/2012
....................................6920......................sport............ PSA Upper

Ae 50 gr varmint * * * * * * * *1.153 * * * * 1.018 * * * * * * * .749

Federal 50 gr jhp * * * * * * 1.770 * * * * * * *1.225 * * * * * 1.372

Federal 62 gr OTM * * * * *1.602 * * * * * * * 1.236 * * * * *1.174

Win q3131 * * * * * * *1.255 * * * * * * * * * *1.503 * * * *1.396

Win 45gr varmint Jhp * *1.548 * * * * * * * * .653 * * * * *.592

Black hills 69 gr matchking 1.761 * * * * * * *1.222 * * * * 1.367

Wolf 62 gr fmj * * * * * * * * 5.295 * * * * *1.064 * * * 1.167

Black Hills 77gr jhp * * * *1.318 * * * * * *1.267 * * * *.839

Hornady 75 gr bthp * * * 3.554 * * * *3.161 * * * * *1.972

Fiocchi 50 gr vmax * * *1.376 * * * * * * * * .619 * * * * * *.785
Fiocchi 40 gr vmax * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * .445
Speer 63gr jsp * * * * * *2.24 * * * * * * * *1.956 * * * *1.469
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Last edited by Matthew Courtney; 09-28-2012 at 02:37..
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Old 09-28-2012, 01:56   #297
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Updates!
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Old 11-12-2012, 09:04   #298
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Old 11-12-2012, 14:06   #299
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its getting interesting

got a sport in jan, ~1400 down range,
best 5 shot group is .668moa with handloads.
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Old 11-13-2012, 03:39   #300
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With the exception of ONE load, the SW still holds the advantage of mechanical accuracy over the Prancing Pony.
Amen to that. My S&W has functioned great. Can't exactly say that for my LE6920.
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