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Old 06-05-2012, 04:36   #1
rvrctyrngr
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Arrested, prosecuted for incidental exposure

Second case of this we've been involved with in the last 6mos. First one was dismissed with prejudice.

Seems that whole 'briefly' thing isn't quite the solution the legislators thought it would be.

http://www.allnineyards.com/

[Moderator Note: There is an update with a trial verdict at Post #82 and at Post #140 a link to "Judge continues case to 07/31/2012 @ 1:30, for sentencing."]
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Last edited by RussP; 06-14-2012 at 06:09..
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Old 06-05-2012, 05:41   #2
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I was really hoping I wouldn't find that this case was in Florida when I clicked on the link.

Sigh...
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Old 06-05-2012, 07:01   #3
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Incidental exposure - gotta love the creativity of that offense descriptor.
Why can't political subdivisions in America actually work out that the United States Constitution actually means what it says?
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Old 06-05-2012, 07:13   #4
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Did you read the police report? It said he was wearing a skin tight shirt that was tucked inside his shorts. That wasn't brief, accidental exposure, it was openly carrying a firearm.

This guy was violating the law.

I would like to see a pro-second amendment judge say that the law he was violating was unconstitutional and dismiss the case. He'll be VERY lucky for that to happen.

Good things on both sides seen in the video. The suspect made no attempt to resist. The police didn't use excessive force. No one got hurt.
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Old 06-05-2012, 07:27   #5
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Did you watch the video? His shirt was not tucked in.
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-Justice Oliver Wendel Holmes Brown v. United States, 1921
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Old 06-05-2012, 09:49   #6
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wow...
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Old 06-05-2012, 11:33   #7
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His attire did not look like the best choice to help keep a gun concealed. I also noticed an alarming lack of other pedestrians.
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Old 06-05-2012, 12:35   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FL Airedale View Post
Did you read the police report? It said he was wearing a skin tight shirt that was tucked inside his shorts. That wasn't brief, accidental exposure, it was openly carrying a firearm.

This guy was violating the law.

I would like to see a pro-second amendment judge say that the law he was violating was unconstitutional and dismiss the case. He'll be VERY lucky for that to happen.

Good things on both sides seen in the video. The suspect made no attempt to resist. The police didn't use excessive force. No one got hurt.

I couldn't read the arrest report. Even when clicked, it stayed "pocket-sized" and unreadable for me.....



Did you watch the cop cam video? His shirt was NOT tucked into his pants. hanging loose.


And, let someone KNEEL ON YOUR BACK, DRIVING YOU INTO THE PAVEMENT before you decide how gently he was handled.....
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Old 06-05-2012, 13:14   #9
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Something that was mentioned elsewhere as it relates to this video. It appears there was no pause to ask questions. OC would have been legal if he was going to or coming from the range.

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Old 06-05-2012, 13:16   #10
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It looks to me like the weight of the gun on his hip was pulling the shorts down a bit, exposing the bottom half of his holster. This is BS, the arrest report said he made no attempt at concealing the gun and that his shirt was tucked in. Did this cop watch the video before making that remark on the report? Not calling it a lie, but it is not factual.
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Old 06-05-2012, 13:39   #11
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Looks to me like the gun/holster was quite exposed, and by the appearance of the man's attire, it seems like it would have taken significant effort on his behalf to keep his pants up / shirt down enough to conceal his gun. Even then, it almost certainly printed through that wife-beater.

It is the responsibility of the individual to conceal his weapon. This individual, IMO, did not take that responsibility seriously.
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Old 06-05-2012, 13:51   #12
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From the video his gun was visable even if he would have had his shirt over it. The holster was clearly visable after he had pulled his shirt down. He was wearing clothes not suited for CCW. If he had use a IWB he wouldn't of had a problem except for printing. He had an OWB holster.
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Old 06-05-2012, 14:24   #13
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If I had been the cop, I'd have arrested him for open carry. If you are dumb enough to wear shorts that fall down to your mid butt with a tight shirt that doesn't come down that far, you are asking to be arrested for open carry. Now, if I was the ADA or the judge, I'd note that the guy only had the permit for a few days and I'd make the law clear to the guy but I wouldn't waste taxpayer money on this.

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Old 06-05-2012, 14:55   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvrctyrngr View Post
Did you watch the video? His shirt was not tucked in.
Yes, I did, and I believe the police report. Look at the where the crotch is on his shorts. He's wearing his pants low. If the crotch is low, so is the waistline. If his shirt is untucked, I can't see it in the video.

Carry Issues

You do have to blow up the police report to make it readable. It's still not easy but you can do it.

Carry Issues
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Old 06-05-2012, 15:23   #15
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If on a jury i would find him not guilty of violating florida law..even if he specifically mean to carry openly. Carrying openly is the right and can not be legislated away...

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Old 06-05-2012, 15:37   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FL Airedale View Post
Yes, I did, and I believe the police report. Look at the where the crotch is on his shorts. He's wearing his pants low. If the crotch is low, so is the waistline. If his shirt is untucked, I can't see it in the video.

Carry Issues

You do have to blow up the police report to make it readable. It's still not easy but you can do it.

Carry Issues
I've seen the actual report. Sorry I don't have it, or I'd put up a better version.

If his shirt is tucked in, I can't see it. It's covering the top of the pistol in the holster, so how can it be tucked in?
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Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an uplifted knife.
-Justice Oliver Wendel Holmes Brown v. United States, 1921
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Old 06-05-2012, 15:47   #17
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Something that was mentioned elsewhere as it relates to this video. It appears there was no pause to ask questions. OC would have been legal if he was going to or coming from the range.

.
He must have been on the way to the fishin' hole!!
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Old 06-05-2012, 15:50   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvrctyrngr View Post
I've seen the actual report. Sorry I don't have it, or I'd put up a better version.

If his shirt is tucked in, I can't see it. It's covering the top of the pistol in the holster, so how can it be tucked in?
I agree with your assessment. It looks untucked and covering the top of the weapon, just not the holster.
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Old 06-05-2012, 15:51   #19
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This is why we need open carry... Preferably constitutional open carry not open carry with a permit.
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Old 06-05-2012, 16:09   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvrctyrngr View Post
I've seen the actual report. Sorry I don't have it, or I'd put up a better version.

If his shirt is tucked in, I can't see it. It's covering the top of the pistol in the holster, so how can it be tucked in?
What I see in the video is apparently, the butt of the gun as he turns. The gun seems to be at this angle.

Carry Issues

I agree with those that think the case should be dismissed. Obviously the guy isn't a criminal because he does have a CCL. He cooperated with police.

I'm just saying that the police were called and they did their job. Even if you don't agree with a law that doesn't mean the police aren't going to arrest you if you break it.

Jury selection for this man's trial is on June 7. I'm betting that the trial will be over the same day. He's charged with misdemeanor. The maximum penalty is 60 days and a $500 fine. Since his CCL suggests he doesn't have a criminal record, he won't get the maximum unless the judge is a board member of Handgun Control, Inc.

This guy didn't have any criminal intent. If the judge wants to be merciful, he can dismiss the case. I hope he does, with a little verbal beatdown about being more careful.

If not, the only way the suspect will beat this is if they can show that the police report is a lie and the officers on the scene are lying when they testify to the same thing.

Although you are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty, it doesn't work that way when your testimony contradicts that of a police officer. This is especially true when there are several police officers contradicting your story.

I was on a jury where a guy walked because the only evidence against the guy was a police officer's testimony and his lie was so ludicrous, we deliberated all of 10 minutes before coming up with not guilty. The first 5 minutes was electing the foreman.
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