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Old 06-10-2012, 11:03   #1
Vic777
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Is the USA coocoo land?

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...38804885_n.jpg
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Old 06-10-2012, 11:05   #2
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If the link is accurate, than it is clearly unacceptable under the First Amendment.
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Old 06-10-2012, 11:13   #3
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here are some links ....

http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comm...olding_public/

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Old 06-10-2012, 11:24   #4
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Wherever someone contests it, it fails the constitutional test. The state lawmakers in the remaining states just don't have the gumption to take it off the books and eventually someone will sue.
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Old 06-10-2012, 11:56   #5
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Just sayin, if its in the state constitution, its probably not unconstitutional....

BTW, has nothing to do with the First amendment. Its not establishing or preventing the exercise of any religion. Even if you decide atheism deserves the same protections as a religion, its still not prohibiting anyone from being an atheist, or "practicing" atheism.

Its an equal protection issue.

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Old 06-10-2012, 12:09   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steveksux View Post
Just sayin, if its in the state constitution, its probably not unconstitutional....
A state constitution could contain provisions that are unconstitutional as per the U.S. constitution, and the Supreme Court has actually already ruled that provisions such as these are in fact unconstitutional.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torcaso_v._Watkins

They're still on the books, but if anyone tried to enforce them, they'd have a tough row to hoe.
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Old 06-10-2012, 12:15   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steveksux View Post
Just sayin, if its in the state constitution, its probably not unconstitutional....

BTW, has nothing to do with the First amendment. Its not establishing or preventing the exercise of any religion. Even if you decide atheism deserves the same protections as a religion, its still not prohibiting anyone from being an atheist, or "practicing" atheism.

Its an equal protection issue.

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So, in essence you are saying it is a 14th Amendment violation, which of course, would provide a nice bridge to a First Amendment violation:

The 14th Amendment"

Quote:
Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Section 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.
Section 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may, by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.
Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.
The parts of interest are italicized.
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Old 06-10-2012, 13:06   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steveksux View Post
Just sayin, if its in the state constitution, its probably not unconstitutional....

BTW, has nothing to do with the First amendment. Its not establishing or preventing the exercise of any religion. Even if you decide atheism deserves the same protections as a religion, its still not prohibiting anyone from being an atheist, or "practicing" atheism.

Its an equal protection issue.

Randy
Actually it would be a violation of Article IV, Paragraph 3 of the US Constitution itself.
The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.
There could be some argument whether or not state offices (other than legislatures) qualify as part of the "under the United States" group, but the 14th Amendment protections would seem to resolve that.
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Old 06-10-2012, 13:17   #9
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Every state has a handful of really dumb, or really outdated laws that just have never been removed. Personally, I see them as just really old laws that no one has bothered to remove from the books. If challenged I would see them being overturned pretty quickly.
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Old 06-10-2012, 14:37   #10
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there are atheists in public office in every state.

some just call themselves "christian" to get elected.

this is why liberals have to lie about their true beliefs to win elections.

atheism, socialism, marxism, communism, etc. have all proven to be losing platforms.

of course, all politicians are essentially liars, just to varying degrees.
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Old 06-10-2012, 14:44   #11
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of course, all politicians are essentially liars, just to varying degrees.
The longer they stay in office the greater the liar they become.
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Old 06-10-2012, 15:53   #12
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The Constitution and the Bill of Rights disagrees with the practice of barring Atheists from office based on their religious beliefs. Just because I don't agree with your religious view point, doesn't mean I don't support your right to have it.

So, if it is an accurate statement that these states bar Atheists from office than it needs to be challeged in the Supreme Court, beause no one should be disinfranchized for their religious beliefs. The State has no business denying a person their individual liberties based on a religious view point.
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Old 06-10-2012, 17:01   #13
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The Constitution and the Bill of Rights disagrees with the practice of barring Atheists from office based on their religious beliefs.
Atheists don't have Religious Beliefs.
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Old 06-10-2012, 17:30   #14
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there are atheists in public office in every state.

some just call themselves "christian" to get elected.

this is why liberals have to lie about their true beliefs to win elections.

atheism, socialism, marxism, communism, etc. have all proven to be losing platforms.

of course, all politicians are essentially liars, just to varying degrees.
While I agree with you that Atheists often have to gloss over their lack of concern for religion in order to be elected, I disagree with your statement that likens atheism to socialism, Marxism, or communism. Those three are political belief systems that require an affirmative belief in their merits. Atheism is the lack of a belief system with regard to religion. An atheist may be aligned with any political party, and hold affirmative beliefs on a hundred other topics, but simply lack concern for, need for, or belief in a religion or religious construct. Atheism is not a losing platform because it isn't a platform. It is the lack of a platform. I do not affirm a disbelief in religion. I simply don't have a belief to affirm. The same way I don't have to affirm a disbelief in werewolves or Frankenstein's monster or Freddy Krueger. I simply don't possess a belief they are real so I don't think about it.

And btw, EVERYONE has to lie about something to get elected. You can't please everyone all the time (or even most of the people even once) without lies.
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Old 06-10-2012, 18:46   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk View Post
The Constitution and the Bill of Rights disagrees with the practice of barring Atheists from office based on their religious beliefs. Just because I don't agree with your religious view point, doesn't mean I don't support your right to have it.
You, sir, are a scholar and a gentleman!

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Old 06-10-2012, 19:42   #16
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Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk View Post
The Constitution and the Bill of Rights disagrees with the practice of barring Atheists from office based on their religious beliefs. Just because I don't agree with your religious view point, doesn't mean I don't support your right to have it.

So, if it is an accurate statement that these states bar Atheists from office than it needs to be challeged in the Supreme Court, beause no one should be disinfranchized for their religious beliefs. The State has no business denying a person their individual liberties based on a religious view point.
See? We don't disagree on everything!!!
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Old 06-10-2012, 19:44   #17
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Atheists don't have Religious Beliefs.
Not according to the courts. Not according to an unemotional evaluation either.

But that's going to get us way off topic.

Yes, the USA is coocoo.

All you need as evidence is our love of Iced tea.

We make it hot to make the tea, then add sugar to make it sweet. Then we cool it down to make it cold, and add lemon to make it sour.

It's simple to see.
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Old 06-10-2012, 19:58   #18
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Not according to the courts. Not according to an unemotional evaluation either.

But that's going to get us way off topic.

Yes, the USA is coocoo.

All you need as evidence is our love of Iced tea.

We make it hot to make the tea, then add sugar to make it sweet. Then we cool it down to make it cold, and add lemon to make it sour.

It's simple to see.
Must be a southern thing.

Up here we make sun tea.

Add sugar to taste.

I hate lemons.
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Old 06-10-2012, 20:22   #19
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Must be a southern thing.

Up here we make sun tea.

Add sugar to taste.

I hate lemons.
Everyone that knows anything about iced tea, Knows that Yankees don't know how to do it, even the honest yankees will admit it.
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Old 06-10-2012, 20:31   #20
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Everyone that knows anything about iced tea, Knows that Yankees don't know how to do it, even the honest yankees will admit it.
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