30-06, 270 Range Advantage over 308?

glockbanger · 06-25-2012, 19:22

How much further can 30-06 and 270 shoot than 308?

glock2740 · 06-25-2012, 19:33

Hell, let's add .280 to the mix too...

countrygun · 06-25-2012, 19:48

There is no difference in usable distance and bloody little in theoretical distance.

If you have to ask I would say that any of those shoot farther than you can hit.

edit to add: I didn't mean to sound snarky but I think responses will show that expreienced shooters don't really recognize a significant difference based on the headstamp on the brass of those rounds. "flat shooting" for instance is only really of value around the MBR the scope has been zeroed for. Beyond that it is the skill, and sportsmanship of the shooter. the setting of the MPBR for the loads and guns is not that significantly different either.

Decguns · 06-25-2012, 19:48

Way too many variables in question for such a generic question. Are we talking about maximum effective range, maximum range, or what? What weapon? A short barreled rifle may actually shoot 308 faster than 30-06 or 270. A longer barrel may actually give a huge advantage to the 30-06 & 270.

With about 100fps average advantage for the 30-06 or 270 in sporting ammo, there's really no difference in effective range. The 270 Win, with the classic 130gr projectile, just shoots flatter than the 30 cals. Hence its popularity for the past century. The 30-06 and 308 are pretty much even until you get into the heavy 180+ projo's where the 30-06 can take advantage of its larger case capacity.

glockbanger · 06-25-2012, 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Decguns

A short barreled rifle may actually shoot 308 faster than 30-06 or 270. A longer barrel may actually give a huge advantage to the 30-06 & 270.

I'm talking same rifle, same barrel length 22" specifically.

countrygun · 06-25-2012, 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by glockbanger

I'm talking same rifle, same barrel length 22" specifically.

But what do you mean by "Farther"??????

do you mean if they were set in a 45 degree fixture?

Do you mean to effectivley hunt and kill game???

All we've got so far is "How many numbers in math?"

glockbanger · 06-25-2012, 21:27

With their maximum effective bullet grain weight in each caliber respectively. I'm talking at a range that can be "shot at". There's little difference to me in what's considered "effective" and the cloudy distance somewhere beyond that where the bullet throws on it's reverse rockets becomes your cuddly buddy.

I'm less worried about maiming an animal than I am about said animal destroying property. I'm not going off on you guys in particular, but I hear a lot of talk about how "i would never consider shooting an animal at that range". My goodness, if you're worried about injuring an animal, you shouldn't hunt. No matter how good a hunter, sooner or later it will happen that you make a bad shot and leave an animal to suffer.

I guess the range I'm talking about it what can be done without terrible bullet drop.

Wyoming · 06-25-2012, 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by glockbanger

How much further can 30-06 and 270 shoot than 308?

For practical purposes for the average hunter they are the same.

I am dumb founded when I go to the range before hunting season and watch shooters sight in the rifles. This is Wyoming, rifle country, few can shoot a group.

You need to be able to shoot a group some where some place before you even begin to adjust a scope.

If you can hunt and shoot you can use any three of the rounds listed in the lower 48 and never look back.

If you can't hunt or shoot what is the point?

countrygun · 06-25-2012, 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by glockbanger

With their maximum effective bullet grain weight in each caliber respectively. I'm talking at a range that can be "shot at". There's little difference to me in what's considered "effective" and the cloudy distance somewhere beyond that where the bullet throws on it's reverse rockets becomes your cuddly buddy.

I'm less worried about maiming an animal than I am about said animal destroying property. I'm not going off on you guys in particular, but I hear a lot of talk about how "i would never consider shooting an animal at that range". My goodness, if you're worried about injuring an animal, you shouldn't hunt. No matter how good a hunter, sooner or later it will happen that you make a bad shot and leave an animal to suffer.

I guess the range I'm talking about it what can be done without terrible bullet drop.

Sorry Dude, you just got on the wrong side of me in several ways.

A hunter does everything he can to minimize the chances of a less than clean kill and that includes staying within his own capabilities and "*&^%" what the round is capable of.

If that is meaningless to you then don't expect advice from some of us on how to go about being a greenhorn wounding animals at silly distances.

The fact that you are asking this question reveals that you do not have a whole bunch of experience. It is a pretty basic thing that one picks up on quickly with that experience. This means that you do not have field experience which is not something you can "buy" with the right cartridge. Some of us have put years into hunting and shooting and I am willing to bet you could hand some around here just about any decent centerfire from a 30-30 on up and expect success. None of us just went out, bought a rifle and a scope and a box of ammo and just flopped down and started dropping game at ridiculous distances.

I don't think you stand a ghost of a chance at hitting anything if you had to ask a question in the manner you did, but I'll not help you wound anything all the same.

K.Kiser · 06-25-2012, 22:06

My Dad 's favorite hnting rifle to build is a .308 due to it's ease in supreme accuracy with some experience and crafty handloads... With that said he has built a ton of other stuff from the 6mm's to 375 cheytac and 416 remingtons, but he seems to always gravitate back to the ugly little .308... He regularly drops full grown wild hogs at 400+ yards and some considerably farther... Yes, the other calibers will do but the .308 still does it cleanly and a lot of this is due to his acute experience as to where the bullet will be at those distances...

I was asking him about this type hunting several years back... I asked "what's the difference out there in the 300 ultra mag and the .308 ?" and his response was "the recoil"... Essentially when you know where to hold and develop the talent to do so, the end result is the same...

Get back down to normal hunting distances, and the result between the three calibers mentioned will be only discernable during a campfire bravado session...

Berto · 06-25-2012, 22:07

It works out to about <--------------------------> this much.

K.Kiser · 06-25-2012, 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berto

It works out to about <--------------------------> this much.

Thats about 2.5" on my monitor, but I was only prepared to accept 2.375"... Thanks for nothing...

Berto · 06-25-2012, 22:12

Downsize the page and you're golden.

glockbanger · 06-25-2012, 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by countrygun

Sorry Dude, you just got on the wrong side of me in several ways.

A hunter does everything he can to minimize the chances of a less than clean kill and that includes staying within his own capabilities and "*&^%" what the round is capable of.

If that is meaningless to you then don't expect advice from some of us on how to go about being a greenhorn wounding animals at silly distances.

The fact that you are asking this question reveals that you do not have a whole bunch of experience. It is a pretty basic thing that one picks up on quickly with that experience. This means that you do not have field experience which is not something you can "buy" with the right cartridge. Some of us have put years into hunting and shooting and I am willing to bet you could hand some around here just about any decent centerfire from a 30-30 on up and expect success. None of us just went out, bought a rifle and a scope and a box of ammo and just flopped down and started dropping game at ridiculous distances.

I don't think you stand a ghost of a chance at hitting anything if you had to ask a question in the manner you did, but I'll not help you wound anything all the same.

You'd not helped anything initially, didn't expect much. Odds are, I'm not going to be doing any extremely long range hunting, but if I see an animal on my farm that is going to cost me money, I'm going to shoot at it. My farm does not lend itself to many extreme range shots. I don't take pride in hunting, never "hunted" anything in my life, and I doubt I'll ever take pride in using a tool to take a defenseless animal's life. I spotlight legally to protect my farm from damage. It's fun, but not challenging, but then again, neither is what you might call "real hunting"

***faawrenchbndr*** · 06-25-2012, 22:42

You are over thinking this,........all three are great calibers.
All will get the job done. I prefer .308 Win of the three

glockbanger · 06-25-2012, 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by faawrenchbndr

You are over thinking this,........all three are great calibers.
All will get the job done. I prefer .308 Win of the three

Tell me about it...

It's my first rifle. I've had family guns before, but never one of my own.

glockbanger · 06-25-2012, 22:59

Chuck Hawk's reports that a .270(.277) 150 grain has SD of .279, compared to a .308/30-06 180 grain with SD of .271. I think most of the shooting and hunting I will be doing will be with a 150 grain bullet. I really like shooting low recoil stuff and 180 is certainly a little much for me. May go up to 165 but I doubt beyond that. On a side note, the .308/30-06 200 and 220 grain bullets have very impressive SDs of .301 and .331.

Danny Reid pointed out to me that a 308/30-06 150 grain bullet has an SD of only .226.

In 150 grain bullets, this is a big diff in SD from .279 to only .226. So it seems the .270 is much better suited to shoot this particular bullet weight. I've heard that the .280 caliber also has some very favorable SD, but it's not something I'm considering.

I'm looking to buy either a 308, 30-06, or 270 in the same model rifle. And I plan on shooting bullets that won't kill me with recoil. It seems like it'll be a 308 shooting165g 2800fps SD .248 BC .435 or a 270 shooting 150g 2850fps .278 SD .481 BC. Which two bullets do you prefer here for knock down power? In this comparison, keep in mind that all three barrels come in 22".
This is where I got my info.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/sd.htm

***faawrenchbndr*** · 06-26-2012, 06:08

My choice is .308 Win........

ithaca_deerslayer · 06-26-2012, 06:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by glockbanger

I spotlight legally to protect my farm from damage. It's fun, but not challenging, but then again, neither is what you might call "real hunting"

I find deer hunting extremely challenging. They come out at night, but I cannot legally hunt at night, nor use a spotlight.

When I don't have a permit to take does, I see plenty of doe. Don't see a lot of bucks except during archery season at 40 yards and my range is 30 yards. I've turned down more bad shots than I've ever taken.

Gun season gives me good odds on opening day, but if that buck decides to take a different trail, then the odds go way down the rest of the season. I've put in 4 hours at 10 degrees, sitting still, and only seen blue jays. Quality time for sure, but no deer.

I seen bucks tease me at 150 yards through woods, the slightest glimpse of white and movement close to dusk. That last 30 minutes spent peering through trees, rifle held up at the ready until arms ache, last light fast fading, antlers disappearing as the doe gives a solid look through trees.

I get the sense you don't have any respect for hunting. Even with pest control, I try to make humane one shot kills. The same ethic from rats to woodchucks to deer.

Anyway, if shooting small animals, a .204 Ruger is flat shooting with low recoil. Or if the occasional larger animal, try a .243. Again, low recoil. For economy and lots of target shooting, a .223 is a great choice. Those latter two with same trajectory as the .308 and .30-06 type rifles, and easier to learn to shoot because of the difference in recoil.

***stopatrain*** · 06-26-2012, 06:50

Yes .308

USCgrad · 06-26-2012, 06:53

.270 wsm on deer sized animals and below...its my coyote or badger caliber of choice. its a much flatter shooting round then say a .308 and drops them where they stand....

glockbanger · 06-26-2012, 07:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by ithaca_deerslayer

I find deer hunting extremely challenging. They come out at night, but I cannot legally hunt at night, nor use a spotlight.

When I don't have a permit to take does, I see plenty of doe. Don't see a lot of bucks except during archery season at 40 yards and my range is 30 yards. I've turned down more bad shots than I've ever taken.

Gun season gives me good odds on opening day, but if that buck decides to take a different trail, then the odds go way down the rest of the season. I've put in 4 hours at 10 degrees, sitting still, and only seen blue jays. Quality time for sure, but no deer.

I seen bucks tease me at 150 yards through woods, the slightest glimpse of white and movement close to dusk. That last 30 minutes spent peering through trees, rifle held up at the ready until arms ache, last light fast fading, antlers disappearing as the doe gives a solid look through trees.

I get the sense you don't have any respect for hunting. Even with pest control, I try to make humane one shot kills. The same ethic from rats to woodchucks to deer.

Anyway, if shooting small animals, a .204 Ruger is flat shooting with low recoil. Or if the occasional larger animal, try a .243. Again, low recoil. For economy and lots of target shooting, a .223 is a great choice. Those latter two with same trajectory as the .308 and .30-06 type rifles, and easier to learn to shoot because of the difference in recoil.

In my defense I will say that I'm not going out popping of crazy round counts trying to hit just whatever. I'm not the greatest shot, so I hit what I can. I've always used a 30-06 for whitetail and even in the case of a bad shot, they usually don't go far. I do have compassion for a dying animal and often execute one in the head after the initial shot if needed. But when it comes down to it, we're still shooting it, that's all i'm saying.

***faawrenchbndr*** · 06-26-2012, 07:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by USCgrad

.270 wsm on deer sized animals and below...its my coyote or badger caliber of choice. its a much flatter shooting round then say a .308 and drops them where they stand....

Very true,....but if the OP wants to hunt Elk in the future,
he will be rifle shopping .......again.

Buy unough gun,.......buy small, hunt small.
Buy big, adjust the cartridge & hunt big AND small!

glockbanger · 06-26-2012, 07:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by faawrenchbndr

Very true,....but if the OP wants to hunt Elk in the future,
he will be rifle shopping .......again.

Buy unough gun,.......buy small, hunt small.
Buy big, adjust the cartridge & hunt big AND small!

Good point, also, I'm sticking with these three calibers because they're easiest to find with best prices.

Wyoming · 06-26-2012, 08:20

You guys ever hunted elk?

As I stated before IF you know how to hunt and IF you know how to shoot any of the three calibers asked about will work. IF you don't it doesn't matter what you will use because it can't make up for poor shoot placement or find you animals.

I shot an elk with a Winchester 100 carbine in 308 using 150 grain factory bullets. Dropped the spike bull in it's tracks. The reason I used this rifle and ammo was that it belonged to a very good friend that was like my big brother. He lived in Ohio were I am originally from. He died way too soon and never lived to come out here to hunt elk but his rifle and Puma knife did. The same rifle and ammo is four for four on antelope that I and my younger friend used.

BTW, bullets today are much better than what my friend used on the many whitetails in WV, MI and PA.

Now that rifle and knife are very dear to me and are "safely stored".