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Old 06-30-2012, 20:20   #1
Coffee Dog
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How potent is Corbon's 9mm-115+P???

I have a Glock 19 and was considering buying a couple
boxes of Corbon's 9mm- 115+P for home defense!

Does any shooter on Glock Talk have any experience with this round? And how is this round's street record?
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Old 06-30-2012, 21:36   #2
Tiro Fijo
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Very. As well, Corbon is making their own 'in house' bullet for it now (no more Sierras) that gets better penetration but still retains the same violent expansion. I would carry this round anywhere with complete & utter confidence.
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Old 06-30-2012, 23:32   #3
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If you want street cred, cheaper than dirt has Federal 9BPLE 115 for $17.49 a box, it has decades of use behind it.
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Old 07-01-2012, 05:16   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiro Fijo View Post
Very. As well, Corbon is making their own 'in house' bullet for it now (no more Sierras) that gets better penetration but still retains the same violent expansion. I would carry this round anywhere with complete & utter confidence.
I didn't know this change had been made, but glad they made it. We tested the Corbon 115 +P w/Sierras years ago (probably late 90's). The expansion was without a doubt fantastic. Penetration wasn't always ideal though as the jacket often shed off. Don't ever remember one failing to open though, even through very thick clothing.

I was very impressed with the +P+ rounds using the GD bullet. Though not generally a fan of the light-for-caliber rounds these days, the +P+ GD opened up like a starfish and still got pretty damn good penetration. Don't quote me, but I want to say around the 12-14 inch mark.

What type of round is Corbon using now?
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Old 07-01-2012, 07:32   #5
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What type of round is Corbon using now?

They had trouble getting Sierra's so they now manufacture their own Sierra-like, old fashioned cup-and-core JHP's.

They wanted to duplicate the terminal ballistics of the Sierra bullets and roll their own with that in mind.
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Old 07-01-2012, 07:39   #6
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They had trouble getting Sierra's so they now manufacture their own Sierra-like, old fashioned cup-and-core JHP's.

They wanted to duplicate the terminal ballistics of the Sierra bullets and roll their own with that in mind.
Thank you. IIRC, the Sierra/Corbon got about 9 inches or so of penetration. I'm assuming these would be about the same?

Like I mentioned, great expanders but would like a few more inches of penetration. On second thought....that sounds a little pornographic
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Old 07-01-2012, 07:46   #7
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Quote:
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Thank you. IIRC, the Sierra/Corbon got about 9 inches or so of penetration. I'm assuming these would be about the same?

Like I mentioned, great expanders but would like a few more inches of penetration. On second thought....that sounds a little pornographic
Thank-you for your post!
I have a Gov't job where I see a much higher percent of people becoming obese (350+ pounds) and I am seriously wondering if 9 inches of penetration would be enough?
Anybody have any insight on this?

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Old 07-01-2012, 08:02   #8
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Here's an interesting demonstration video on Corbon's jhp ammo!

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Old 07-01-2012, 08:05   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 229 Eagle View Post
Thank-you for your post!
I have a Gov't job where I see a much higher percent of people becoming obese (350+ pounds) and I am seriously wondering if 9 inches of penetration would be enough?
Anybody have any insight on this?
The Trooper Coates shooting.


The killer, Richard Blackburn, took hits from Coates' .357 revolver which apparently did not penetrate enough. Blackburn is/was a large man. I am not sure to this date what load Coates had in his revolver, or what was issued/mandated by the South Carolina Highway Patrol at the time.

South Carolina now carries Glock 37's.
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Old 07-01-2012, 08:07   #10
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Thank-you for your post!
I have a Gov't job where I see a much higher percent of people becoming obese (350+ pounds) and I am seriously wondering if 9 inches of penetration would be enough?
Anybody have any insight on this?
Here is something to consider: on an unobstructed, frontal, upper torso shot, 9 inches of penetration would reach most vitals. However, speaking from a L.E. perspective, obstructions such as a limb are the norm and not the exception. For example, a person is coming at you for an attack, their arms are probably going to be up and in front of their body (holding a gun, knife, broken bottle etc) over their COM. That is extra depth that needs to be taken into account. Additionally, a cross-torso shot will add considerable depth to the shot in terms of reaching vitals whether through the limb or shoulder. And of course any other type of obstruction such as a wall, door etc. Just some things to think about.
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Old 07-01-2012, 08:21   #11
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Corbon specifically designed their 115JHP+P to duplicate Federal's and Winchester's 115+P+ loads in a civilian package. And that's exactly what they got.
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Old 07-01-2012, 09:21   #12
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Originally Posted by Deputydave View Post
Thank you. IIRC, the Sierra/Corbon got about 9 inches or so of penetration. I'm assuming these would be about the same?

There's a guy on here who works for Cor Bon (can't remember his name). He emailed me that the expansion/fragmentation should be about the same so I'd venture to guess the penetration should close too. I only asked about the expansion part and am surmising here.

I have some in 125gr 357Sig and 165gr .40, but haven't tested them (yet).
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Old 07-01-2012, 09:42   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deputydave View Post
Here is something to consider: on an unobstructed, frontal, upper torso shot, 9 inches of penetration would reach most vitals. However, speaking from a L.E. perspective, obstructions such as a limb are the norm and not the exception. For example, a person is coming at you for an attack, their arms are probably going to be up and in front of their body (holding a gun, knife, broken bottle etc) over their COM. That is extra depth that needs to be taken into account. Additionally, a cross-torso shot will add considerable depth to the shot in terms of reaching vitals whether through the limb or shoulder. And of course any other type of obstruction such as a wall, door etc. Just some things to think about.
Being a former Marine MP I have a high desire to survive any
possible lethal encounters> Thank-you for your insight because I am not going to gamble my life or family's lives that the intruder will not extend their arms extra and all I need is 9 inches! I am considering Gold Dot's 124+p which gives aprox. 12 to 13 inches of penertration.
This added measure of penertration helps eliminate
an arm, etc getting in the path of your target!
Thank-you for your experience!
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Old 07-01-2012, 09:47   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4949shooter View Post
The Trooper Coates shooting.

Volume 1 Program 4 Preview Trooper Coates Murder - YouTube

The killer, Richard Blackburn, took hits from Coates' .357 revolver which apparently did not penetrate enough. Blackburn is/was a large man. I am not sure to this date what load Coates had in his revolver, or what was issued/mandated by the South Carolina Highway Patrol at the time.

South Carolina now carries Glock 37's.
Thank-you also Sir for allowing me to see bettween the lines-
that 9 inches just might not be enough penertration!
Thank-you for your service!


P.S. I have a Sig 229 with a .357sig barrel & Corbon's .357sig-125gr. jhp

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Old 07-01-2012, 09:48   #15
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Quote:
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Thank-you also Sir for allowing me to see bettween the lines-
that 9 inches just might not be enough penertration!
Thank-you for your service!
You are most welcome, Sir.
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Old 07-01-2012, 10:08   #16
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There's a guy on here who works for Cor Bon (can't remember his name). He emailed me that the expansion/fragmentation should be about the same so I'd venture to guess the penetration should close too. I only asked about the expansion part and am surmising here.

I have some in 125gr 357Sig and 165gr .40, but haven't tested them (yet).
Thank you. I would think that both those rounds would do very well on both expansion and penetration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 229 Eagle
Thank-you for your insight because I am not going to gamble my life or family's lives that the intruder will not extend their arms extra and all I need is 9 inches! I am considering Gold Dot's 124+p which gives aprox. 12 to 13 inches of penertration.
This added measure of penertration helps eliminate
an arm, etc getting in the path of your target!
Thank-you for your experience!
You're very welcome. As a side note, prior to switching to the .45ACP (in a G21), our agency used the 124+P GD (in a Beretta). It did very well in numerous shootings. I don't ever recall of one failing to expand in a shooting and in fact have been one of the Deputies at the hospital taking chain-of-evidence custody of rounds taken out of the badguy in surgery. They had all expanded very well. Of the few 'shoot-throughs' we had where a round exited the body, the spent rounds were found within the clothing on the exit wound side of the body or on the ground a few feet away from the body. It is an exceptional round and balls-on accurate.
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Old 07-01-2012, 13:44   #17
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Per usual, I see we have the 12" fanatics here that seem to forget that Fed. BPLE and Winchester RA9115HP+ worked for years w/o problems. The 12" figure is meaningless. It is an abritary figure dreamed up by the FBI. Period.

FWIW, I believe Trooper Coates was using 140 gr. Win. Silvertips of an earlier generation.
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Old 07-01-2012, 14:35   #18
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Per usual, I see we have the 12" fanatics here that seem to forget that Fed. BPLE and Winchester RA9115HP+ worked for years w/o problems. The 12" figure is meaningless. It is an abritary figure dreamed up by the FBI. Period.

FWIW, I believe Trooper Coates was using 140 gr. Win. Silvertips of an earlier generation.
I don't think 'fanatic' is the best label. The FBI established this as a benchmark based on many critieria. It is a viable measure. Our agency used the 115 prior to the 124+P GD's in the very early 90's. Success varied pretty widely. IIRC, the round was one of Remingtons. Another smaller agency in the area also used 115 as well. I remember taking custody of a prisoner they had shot 12 times, 6 upper arm and 6 upper/lower leg (subject was bladed to them at the time of the shooting). The bone in the upper arm, the upper leg and calf were shattered. The subject was immobilized (i.e. fell down and couldn't stand up) which ended the attack (butcher knife). However, none of the rounds exited the limbs to enter the torso. Had the subject had a firearm instead of the knife, he could have continued to fire.

I mention this to illustrate that we will not always get the perfect, unobstructed upper torso shot. Too be honest, you probably won't due to many factors. 12 inches was settled on as a benchmark to allow for penetration through a limb and still reach vitals without over-penetration on an unobstructed shot. It isn't magic, nor do I think many tout it as such. Have 115's/+P/+P+ stopped attackers? Yes they have. Have they also failed? Yes they have. Is under-penetration a factor in some/many of those shootings? Yes. Would a few more inches of penetration made a difference in those shootings? I don't know, but it probably wouldn't have made the BG feel better.

A way to look at things like this is as follows; a life/death situation which requires you to use deadly force is going to put all sorts of stressors on you, both mental and physical. All sorts of negative things could be against you; injury, adrenaline dump, tunnel vision, auditory exclusion etc. A lot of these factors are just beyond our control. So to me, it makes sense to stack the deck, as much as possible, in our favor ahead of time. Would I refuse to use a 115 (+P/+P+)? Of course not. Any port in a storm so-to-speak. But if I can load with a round that penetrates a bit deeper as a choice, that is preferable.

Also keep in mind that some rounds, like the 115+P+ GD penetrate IIRC around 11-12 inches give or take.
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Old 07-01-2012, 18:04   #19
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Penetration is the most important factor in ballistics. Period. I'd rather have ball ammo than something that only penetrates 8-9 inches. 12 inches in bare gel is minimum. 15 inches is better. Remember that 9 inches is under ideal conditions. It doesn't take into consideration barriers, like metal, wood, limbs, bone, etc. 9 inches is weak.

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Old 07-01-2012, 18:50   #20
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12-18" wasn't just a number someone pulled out of their a**.

And ask the military how effective 9mm ball is.
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