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Old 07-12-2012, 19:45   #1
Boats
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Where's the firefight, Hoss?

Last weekend I was at the 200 yard range of my club, banging away with a Mossberg 590A1 at a white 18" diameter steel gong I bring so as to not chew up any club property but the berm. I always finish off my shotgun practices with an attempt to put 10/10 rifled slugs on target. I enjoy the walk to see what happened. Saturday I only hit 7/10, which is one more miss than usual.

Anyways, as I was packing up, I had an AR shooter asking me what was the point of what I was doing. He wasn't snarky, just wondering why I was shooting the shotgun "outside of its useful range."

So I had to ask, "What is not useful about an ounce of lead delivered on target at 200m?"

"That range is what a rifle is for."

"Not if my rifle is not with me. I'm just out here proving to myself that one moa isn't necessary to hit with this," indicating the shotgun.

So I turned it a bit, pointing at his AR, "You could use five, 10, or 20 round mags, so why the 30 rounder?"

"It's the best one for self-defense."

"Exactly. You're using it because you can.

AR fans annoy me more often than not with their "one true sword" vibes.
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Old 07-12-2012, 20:26   #2
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j/k I love myself a good shotgun too. I just happen to have an 870 though.
But, I understand your point. You should learn your (and your weapons) limits. I like to know all of my weapons POI at given distances.
I'm kinda thinking that 10/10 at 200 is pretty darn good shooting.
Don't let them get to ya' shoot what ya' like and have fun.
Next time they start with ya' tell them something like "I'd rather have 1 good shot with my 12 then 30 with that poodle shooter"
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Old 07-12-2012, 20:33   #3
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If you practice at extreme limits, it doesn't make you worse when closer.

Nice shooting.
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Old 07-12-2012, 21:06   #4
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If you practice at extreme limits, it doesn't make you worse when closer.

Nice shooting.
Thanks, but the target is a lot bigger than a pie plate, even most pizza pie tins.

Couldn't do it with the ghost rings mounted and had to go for rifle style sights for more precision at that distance.
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Old 07-12-2012, 22:16   #5
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If you practice at extreme limits, it doesn't make you worse when closer.
Nice shooting.
Exactly. I fully agree with you.

That's why I occasionally send a few rounds downrange at the 50 and 100 yard marker with my 'mouse gun' 9mm and 380 pistols. Nice to see what you can hit at those distances. Makes 5 or 7 yards a lot easier when you've got the basics down. And the basics had better be correct, if you want to hit at long ranges. Besides long range shooting is fun.
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Old 07-12-2012, 23:34   #6
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I think it kind of depends on the person. If I went to the range with my AR and saw you doing what you described, when you came back from checking your target, I would have said something like "Nice shooting..." or something to that effect. I guess it comes down what people appreciate.
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Old 07-13-2012, 08:49   #7
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I remember one day at the range about 30 years ago. I was shooting my iron sighted 6 inch barrel Smith model 19 with my 357 reloads. It was an uncontrolled range and I was the only one there. I put up two standard 25 yard bulls-eye slow fire targets on target stands at 100 yards.

I fired six rounds from a sandbagged bench rest at one of the targets. I reloaded and was going to fire standing using a two handed hold at the other target. About that time another guy drove up. I stopped and waited as be unloaded his rifles and put ear protection on.

Then I said 'let me shoot this target and then we can go downrange.' He said 'sure.' I fired the six rounds and we went downrange.

I went to the first target to check it and this guys eyes about bugged out when he saw all six holes in the black. He made a remark about my shooting ability. I said 'no this is a target I fired from a bench rest. Here's the target I just fired. It had all the holes inside the circles and a few in the black.
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Old 07-13-2012, 13:22   #8
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Some people just have tunnel vision. What ever THEY do or have is the best and they feel the need to challenge anyone who is different.
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Old 07-13-2012, 13:40   #9
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Some people just have tunnel vision. What ever THEY do or have is the best and they feel the need to challenge anyone who is different.
Well said.


At a Hunter's Pistol Silhouette Match one time, I brought my 4" mdl 19 with handloads, to shoot.
Everyone else was shooting 10" T/C Contenders.

One old fart laughed when he saw me take the mdl 19 out of the carry case.

He stopped laughing when he saw my score.
31 out of 40. He shot a 19 with his 10" Contender.
(Those turkeys at 75 yards are a PITA!)
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Old 07-13-2012, 13:59   #10
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If you practice at extreme limits, it doesn't make you worse when closer.

Nice shooting.
In fact, it makes you better; a WHOLE LOT better;

It also makes you faster and smoother, since you are working your fundamentals at what now appears to be a huge target at a practical combat range after working a simlar target at distance.

Good shooting, indeed.
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Old 07-13-2012, 15:24   #11
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Good shooting! Remember what Mel Gibson said in the movie The Patriot. " Aim small, miss small"
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Old 07-14-2012, 00:04   #12
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Originally Posted by byf43 View Post
Well said.


At a Hunter's Pistol Silhouette Match one time, I brought my 4" mdl 19 with handloads, to shoot.
Everyone else was shooting 10" T/C Contenders.

One old fart laughed when he saw me take the mdl 19 out of the carry case.

He stopped laughing when he saw my score.
31 out of 40. He shot a 19 with his 10" Contender.
(Those turkeys at 75 yards are a PITA!)
While I enjoy the tale, you should never shoot your best for free. You had him - coulda lightened his wallet while smacking his ego.

Last edited by Zombie Steve; 07-14-2012 at 00:05..
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Old 07-14-2012, 03:09   #13
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Some people just have tunnel vision. What ever THEY do or have is the best and they feel the need to challenge anyone who is different.
Very true
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Old 07-14-2012, 03:50   #14
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Originally Posted by byf43 View Post
Well said.


At a Hunter's Pistol Silhouette Match one time, I brought my 4" mdl 19 with handloads, to shoot.
Everyone else was shooting 10" T/C Contenders.

One old fart laughed when he saw me take the mdl 19 out of the carry case.

He stopped laughing when he saw my score.
31 out of 40. He shot a 19 with his 10" Contender.
(Those turkeys at 75 yards are a PITA!)
Excellent!

It would be interesting to see the score, if YOU had shot HIS Contender!

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Old 07-14-2012, 04:36   #15
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Last weekend I was at the 200 yard range of my club, banging away with a Mossberg 590A1 at a white 18" diameter steel gong I bring so as to not chew up any club property but the berm. I always finish off my shotgun practices with an attempt to put 10/10 rifled slugs on target. I enjoy the walk to see what happened. Saturday I only hit 7/10, which is one more miss than usual.

Anyways, as I was packing up, I had an AR shooter asking me what was the point of what I was doing. He wasn't snarky, just wondering why I was shooting the shotgun "outside of its useful range."

So I had to ask, "What is not useful about an ounce of lead delivered on target at 200m?"

"That range is what a rifle is for."

"Not if my rifle is not with me. I'm just out here proving to myself that one moa isn't necessary to hit with this," indicating the shotgun.

So I turned it a bit, pointing at his AR, "You could use five, 10, or 20 round mags, so why the 30 rounder?"

"It's the best one for self-defense."

"Exactly. You're using it because you can.

AR fans annoy me more often than not with their "one true sword" vibes.
not just AR guys people all over are like that..because they have a view/opinion thats different but they think that they are always right and cant possibly be wrong is what I dont like. I dont have time for people like that. But they are NOT always AR guys. Same deal with people that talk down to you because they notice you have a Swift scope on your hi powered rifle your shooting at 200 yards...they snicker or give a wise ass comment on how its not as good as their(insert elite snob scope maker lol that they are using) till they go down range and your group is the same or smaller than theirs..then I always have to point out...Hey looks like you need a new scope or something and smile...there will ALWAYS me morons in life..a LOT of them happen to be at the range lol.
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Old 07-14-2012, 14:35   #16
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That is good shooting! How far off do you have to hold to hit at that range?
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Old 07-14-2012, 17:26   #17
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That is good shooting! How far off do you have to hold to hit at that range?
Not meaning to hijack this from the OP, but I have done a fair amount of this kind of shooting.


All depends on what you are zeroed for if you have adjustable sights on the shotgun. If you don't then it is really dependent on your gun and your head position, etc, on the stock.

An example would be my Mossberg 500A with Ghost rings.

It is zeroed with slugs at about 35 yards. On the old B-27 target, at 100 yds, if I use a 6 o'clock hold on the head of the target (putting the head on top of the front sight) the slugs tend (on a good day) to be in the area above the "X" ring in the high stomach/low chest.
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Old 07-14-2012, 21:12   #18
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That is good shooting! How far do you have to hold to hit at that range?
Well, not to be evasive, but that's the trick of it. Frankly, it's a form of useful stunt shooting. I know that the rifle sights I mounted are "zeroed" POA=POI for Brenneke slugs at 50 yards. To achieve COM on a B27 at 100 requires a six o clock hold on the head of the target.

Therefore, when shooting at the plate I use, I cheat a bit. The range is exactly known. I get low to the bench so the elevation/drop curve doesn't threaten to become too extreme. I hold over in feel like I would for the 100m B27—and then about half as much again more, because like throwing a baseball, a little more arc in flight at the beginning yields a lot more distance if you have sufficient velocity, which slugs do.

I never get 10/10 because like artillery or indirect archery or rifle fire, I am walking in the first two or three shots to find the range by bracketing. Then it's all down to my ability to repeat. I do this by picking something on the berm as a reference point and squeezing off when I think everything's right.

BTW, any "group" that ever comes of this is coincidental, not skill.

Sometimes wind makes these attempts a waste of ammo.

I have tried this exercise with an EOTech XPS2. Much easier, but I don't like the RDS on the shotgun otherwise.
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Old 07-14-2012, 22:26   #19
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I regularly take my 5.45 Saiga out to 500 yards and hold .5-1.5 MOA with it. It really ticks people off for some reason.
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Old 07-14-2012, 22:46   #20
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Last weekend I was at the 200 yard range of my club, banging away with a Mossberg 590A1 at a white 18" diameter steel gong I bring so as to not chew up any club property but the berm. I always finish off my shotgun practices with an attempt to put 10/10 rifled slugs on target. I enjoy the walk to see what happened. Saturday I only hit 7/10, which is one more miss than usual.

Anyways, as I was packing up, I had an AR shooter asking me what was the point of what I was doing. He wasn't snarky, just wondering why I was shooting the shotgun "outside of its useful range."

So I had to ask, "What is not useful about an ounce of lead delivered on target at 200m?"

"That range is what a rifle is for."

"Not if my rifle is not with me. I'm just out here proving to myself that one moa isn't necessary to hit with this," indicating the shotgun.

So I turned it a bit, pointing at his AR, "You could use five, 10, or 20 round mags, so why the 30 rounder?"

"It's the best one for self-defense."

"Exactly. You're using it because you can.

AR fans annoy me more often than not with their "one true sword" vibes.

Boats...there IS only "One True Sword"!

But it happens to be the one you have with you when you NEED it!

So...as much of an AR fan as I am...there are times when I'd MUCH rather have a good old 12 gauge than a tricked out zombie shredder AR.

I think you're absolutely right to stretch both your capabilities AND the capabilities of your shotgun. You might not get the chance to plan the gun fight you find yourself in!

So...that's exactly why I added the heat shield with the ghost ring sights to THIS Mossy. It's the one I keep in the truck and at the cabin, and when we go camping. Sure...my AR is there too...but I wouldn't be caught without a gauge handy.

Too many years with one in my patrol car I guess.

Last edited by AZL; 07-18-2012 at 10:45..
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