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Old 07-15-2012, 20:56   #1
Metal Angel
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Underwood Ammo 115 +P+ 1400fps!!!

Holy crap expansion!!! Nearly 9/10ths of an inch!


This video definitely settles it for me, high velocity light weight bullets are not the best option for SD. Sure, this bullet really expanded violently, but 9" penetration is worse than most .380ACPs.

I think 124 +p is kind of a sweet spot for 9mm- it expands well but still penetrates adequately, but I think I would never pick an SD round lighter and faster than that. This video makes me want to lean towards 147 standard pressure.
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Old 07-15-2012, 21:40   #2
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That's damn impressive velocity. Corbon used to load 9mm +P and .38sp +P+ 115gr to the same chrono'd velocities, they were also shallow penetrators and usually fragged.
Still, starfish expansion like that just looks fearsome.
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Old 07-15-2012, 21:43   #3
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Wow, that is fast!
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Old 07-15-2012, 22:05   #4
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Thats impressive for both the loading and the GD. Personally, I think the 124 grain +P offering from Underwood is the best.

BTW there is another vid on you tube showing this stuff going almost 1500 out of a 5 inch barrel.
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Old 07-15-2012, 22:21   #5
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Yeah, 9" penetration is no better than a .380. Doesn't matter how large it expands to if it doesn't go deep enough.

Not to mention the wear on your gun, the difference in feel between this and your practice ammo, etc, etc, etc.
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Old 07-15-2012, 22:22   #6
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Originally Posted by Foxtrotx1 View Post
Thats impressive for both the loading and the GD. Personally, I think the 124 grain +P offering from Underwood is the best.

BTW there is another vid on you tube showing this stuff going almost 1500 out of a 5 inch barrel.
I believe it. Too lazy to watch the vid again to confirm, but his average was something like 1440 out of the Glock 19. I think everyone knows the Glock 19 produces high velocities for what it is, but I bet this load would haul ass out of a Glock 34.
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Old 07-15-2012, 22:25   #7
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Yeah, 9" penetration is no better than a .380. Doesn't matter how large it expands to if it doesn't go deep enough.

Not to mention the wear on your gun, the difference in feel between this and your practice ammo, etc, etc, etc.
Yup. These reasons make me think I should be running 147 standard pressure, just to be on the safe side. 124 +p has a good track record though, so that's what I'm running now.
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Old 07-16-2012, 06:04   #8
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I would be very confident carrying that ammo. With it's tremendous wounding abilities, I wouldn't worry about it's shallow penetration.

That's my opinion, others may think differently about it. In fact, I carry Corbon's 115GR JHP, which is advertised to hit the same type of velocities.
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Old 07-16-2012, 06:22   #9
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Very impressive SD round and a great price for 50 count.
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Old 07-16-2012, 08:33   #10
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Yup. These reasons make me think I should be running 147 standard pressure, just to be on the safe side. 124 +p has a good track record though, so that's what I'm running now.
I absolutely know this round isn't for everyone. I try to offer a bit of everything to appeal to those who want expansion and other loads to those who prefer penetration. These are intended specifically for massive tissue damage without over penetration. This is 100% of energy on target that, for the average individual/ two-legged animal, will be right at the back or darn near exiting.

If you're looking for penetration, we offer regular +P 115gr or go up to our 124gr and you have +P or +P+ options.

In the next few weeks, we're also launching our 147gr Gold Dots, as well.
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Old 07-16-2012, 08:44   #11
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It's irresponsible to sell +P+ ammo in generic Starline brass. Once it gets passed around a bit, no one will have any idea what it is.
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Old 07-16-2012, 09:05   #12
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It's irresponsible to sell +P+ ammo in generic Starline brass. Once it gets passed around a bit, no one will have any idea what it is.
Starline's brass is the same, regardless of headstamp. At first, we didn't want to charge our customers more money just to have a custom headstamp read +p ...however, our last order placed we did bump up to the +p headstamp to alleviate any questions such as this.

Again, it is the exact same brass, just a change of headstamp.
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Old 07-16-2012, 09:50   #13
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It's irresponsible to sell +P+ ammo in generic Starline brass. Once it gets passed around a bit, no one will have any idea what it is.
It's the responsibility of the person shooting a gun to know what they have loaded up.

Nanny state much?
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Old 07-16-2012, 09:55   #14
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Originally Posted by kjunderwood View Post
Starline's brass is the same, regardless of headstamp. At first, we didn't want to charge our customers more money just to have a custom headstamp read +p ...however, our last order placed we did bump up to the +p headstamp to alleviate any questions such as this.

Again, it is the exact same brass, just a change of headstamp.
I understand that. But the ammo is not marked +P+. Once it's out of the box, there is no way to know what it is. If the ammo exceeds SAAMI pressure, it should be marked in some way. It doesn't even have a brand on it.

Why mark the new brass "+P" when it is +P+ ammo? Why not commission Starline to put your own headstamp on it with a +P+ designation, it's not that much money amortized over a large lot of ammo.
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Old 07-16-2012, 09:59   #15
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I understand that. But the ammo is not marked +P+. Once it's out of the box, there is no way to know what it is. If the ammo exceeds SAAMI pressure, it should be marked in some way. It doesn't even have a brand on it.

Why mark the new brass "+P" when it is +P+ ammo? Why not commission Starline to put your own headstamp on it with a +P+ designation, it's not that much money amortized over a large lot of ammo.
It's not Underwood's problem if it's removed from the box.
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Old 07-16-2012, 10:01   #16
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It's the responsibility of the person shooting a gun to know what they have loaded up.

Nanny state much?
No. The industry standard, what we teach all shooters, even housewives and other casual shooters, is to make sure the markings on the ammunition match the markings on the gun and in the guns manual. This ammo exceeds industry pressures and is marked simply "9mm". It's not nanny sate, it's common sense. Maybe all electrical receptacles should be identical and anyone who doesn't test for voltage on every outlet deserves to have a fire or their equipment destroyed.
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Old 07-16-2012, 10:03   #17
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It's not Underwood's problem if it's removed from the box.
Well that's all that really matters isn't it?
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Old 07-16-2012, 10:15   #18
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Originally Posted by WiskyT View Post
I understand that. But the ammo is not marked +P+. Once it's out of the box, there is no way to know what it is. If the ammo exceeds SAAMI pressure, it should be marked in some way. It doesn't even have a brand on it.

Why mark the new brass "+P" when it is +P+ ammo? Why not commission Starline to put your own headstamp on it with a +P+ designation, it's not that much money amortized over a large lot of ammo.
We are in the process of working with Starline to get our own headstamp. That way, we can have it marked however we like. You're correct, it's not "that much money" to have it marked, however - it will increase the price of the rounds, which as a business I try to avoid. $750 per caliber spread out over 50 plus calibers to have our headstamp is quite the business expense that needs to be budgeted for. Easily over $40,000 with +P, +P+, and standard markings where such options are offered. We're working on it, and there's not much more that can be said. If we instituted the same mark-ups other ammo manufacturers do (which is double or more) we would have no problem doing it. I prefer to run my business differently and offer quality at a more affordable price.

I do understand your point, and am just letting you know it's in the works.
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Old 07-16-2012, 10:57   #19
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Originally Posted by kjunderwood View Post
We are in the process of working with Starline to get our own headstamp. That way, we can have it marked however we like. You're correct, it's not "that much money" to have it marked, however - it will increase the price of the rounds, which as a business I try to avoid. $750 per caliber spread out over 50 plus calibers to have our headstamp is quite the business expense that needs to be budgeted for. Easily over $40,000 with +P, +P+, and standard markings where such options are offered. We're working on it, and there's not much more that can be said. If we instituted the same mark-ups other ammo manufacturers do (which is double or more) we would have no problem doing it. I prefer to run my business differently and offer quality at a more affordable price.

I do understand your point, and am just letting you know it's in the works.
I could see why you want to have your own company headstamp. But I don't think it's necessary from a safety point of view. I would consider doing the +P+ rounds first, then doing the less critical ones for branding purposes as your budget allows.

I do appreciate your responsiveness. Many small manufacturers, ammo and other gun stuff, come across as very defensive. I made a criticism of your product, and you responded in what I think is an appropriate way. Good luck with your venture.
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Old 07-16-2012, 11:18   #20
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I could see why you want to have your own company headstamp. But I don't think it's necessary from a safety point of view. I would consider doing the +P+ rounds first, then doing the less critical ones for branding purposes as your budget allows.

I do appreciate your responsiveness. Many small manufacturers, ammo and other gun stuff, come across as very defensive. I made a criticism of your product, and you responded in what I think is an appropriate way. Good luck with your venture.
Well most people tend to defend themselves when they are needlessly attacked. Its the consumers responsibility to know what they are putting in their gun. If an open class 9mm major shooter accidentally leaves a live round on the ground at the range and some fool picks it up and shoots it in their glock and blows it up, who's fault is it? the guy that dropped the bullet or the guy that shot a bullet of unknown origin?
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