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Old 07-21-2012, 08:44   #1
hayabusa200
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Protecting a handicapped stranger?

Just curious as to what would have been the proper thing to do in the following situation if things would have escalated.

I was out to dinner with my wife at a nice restaurant when three men started arguing with the waitress about not paying for a shrimp cocktail because it was served in a not so clean bowl. I myself probably would have been upset too, but not to the point where I would have made a scene. Anyway, the three men decided to leave without paying for that part of the bill. As they walked out the door, the manager who just happens to be in a wheelchair and is missing both legs proceeds to confront them outside regarding what just happened. He then sternly asked them to go back in and pay their bill. Now mind you, these three men were easily 275-300+# each, not your average size guys. The confrontation started to escalate to where I felt that there was a very good chance that they may have physically attacked the manager, they were that irate.Confined to a wheelchair, or not, they didnt seem to care. Now luckily the police were called and four patrol cars showed up in several minutes, but if it came down to these three huge guys attacking a man in a wheelchair, what would have been the proper thing to do if there were no police there? Obviously there was no one there that could have physically taken any one of these guys down, let alone all three of them.
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Old 07-21-2012, 09:01   #2
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Punch for the adam's apple, from the side under the ear, gouge eyes, and squeeze balls, and given it was a restaurant don't forget the advatages of eating utensils to their orifices -- use your enviroment.. Big azzwhole guys are definitely the funnest to stomp on.. If I ended getting beat on, I can't think of a whole lot better reasons to lose a fight..

Given their attitude toward the manager, if you had came to his assistance and starting absorbing the violence, there would be others to come to your aid if there was a pair of scrotes to be found in the audience ..

I had an uncle (now deceased) that was in a chair, but he always had a Colt 1911 that he carried for nearly 30 years and it kept him safe on a few occasions..

Kudos for the manager sticking to his ground knowing his own limitations, that's character and courage and I'd like to shake his hand..

Last edited by K.Kiser; 07-21-2012 at 09:07..
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Old 07-21-2012, 09:17   #3
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If there are multiple people beating a person of limited mobility that would become assualt with a deadly weapon in my state. Theoretically you could make a citizens arrest by telling them to stop and them submitting to the arrest. Now how could you make them stop? Sounds like they are inflicting potentially deadly force on the victim.

Luckily in todays world most people stop when told the police are coming, especially if you are holding a cell phone in your hand.

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Old 07-21-2012, 10:47   #4
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If I feel that a innocent persons life may be forfit (right here, right now, in this moment) and I have enough information to feel confident about who the good guy is and who the bad guy is... I would be inclined to aid the victim.

However, I am not going to stick around observing chaos unfolding. It is not my desire or intent to get in between two fighting men, investigate odd happenings in dark alleys or chase purse snatchers.

I would most certainly risk my life to save a child who wondered into traffic but I am not so inclinded to get into other peoples business or solve their troubles.
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Last edited by FireForged; 07-21-2012 at 10:50..
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Old 07-21-2012, 10:54   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hayabusa200 View Post
at a nice restaurant when three men started arguing with the waitress about not paying for a shrimp cocktail because it was served in a not so clean bowl.
Did they eat
1 all the shrimp and then notice the bowl was not clean,
2 some of the shrimp and then notice it
3 didn't eat any of the shrimp

Usually, the customer is always right, especially when it comes to sanitation.

Sounds like the restaurant should have defused the situation early on since they alienated the 3 guys and annoyed the other diners.
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Old 07-21-2012, 11:52   #6
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My immediate tactical course of action would be writing mental note to never patronize this place again.

I almost feel for the owners, they can’t even fire this tool of a manager.

Why do you refer to the place as “nice”? In my neck of woods nice places are run by people who are more concerned about keeping serving plates clean than about insulting the customers.
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Old 07-21-2012, 11:57   #7
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Call the police, observe and be a good witness. Beyond that realize that anything you insert yourself into can result in a world of physical and/or financial hurt for you. Is the bowl of shrimp worth it to you? It obviously was to the manager. He made a poor choice in my opinion, although I commend his conviction and principle. It's up to you if his poor choice becomes your problem- potentially a problem you deal with for the rest of your life.

Generally speaking my family's safety and my safety come before a restaurant manager who decided a bowl of shrimp was worth going after.
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Old 07-21-2012, 12:55   #8
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Is a $5 to $8 shrimp cocktail worth the hassel? If they paid for everything else let it go. Sounds to me like all involved mishandeled the situation. I would not put anyone's life in danger over $5.
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Old 07-21-2012, 21:29   #9
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You were considering confronting almost 1000 pounds of already angry men over a $5.00 shrimp cocktail? The manager made a bad choice for whatever reason. They throw away more food and stuff than that at the end of the night. Most places would have written that off. They did pay for the rest of the meals right?

NN
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Old 07-21-2012, 22:07   #10
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Not in that situation, call the police and let them handle it (unless of course the men had started action you felt was likely to lead to the death of, or at least would hav inflicted serious bodily harm to the manager.
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Old 07-21-2012, 22:22   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Never Nervous View Post
You were considering confronting almost 1000 pounds of already angry men over a $5.00 shrimp cocktail? The manager made a bad choice for whatever reason. They throw away more food and stuff than that at the end of the night. Most places would have written that off. They did pay for the rest of the meals right?

NN
Very true, but I guess I am a little sympathetic towards a handicapped person, being that my mother has been paralyzed since I was four. Im just glad the police showed up before any of these goofs did something.
I guess the manager takes his job just a little more serious than he should, especially in his situation. He should have called the cops and let them handle it, and luckily someone did, and kudos to the officers for their prompt response.
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Old 07-21-2012, 23:25   #12
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Is a $5 to $8 shrimp cocktail worth the hassel? If they paid for everything else let it go. Sounds to me like all involved mishandeled the situation. I would not put anyone's life in danger over $5.
The question was whether or not to defend the legless manager if he was assaulted by three large, irate customers.
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Old 07-22-2012, 07:44   #13
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And there in lies the real issue with these type discussions and events. Alot of shootings when viewed from the five or ten seconds before the shooting seem to be legitimate but when the events leading up to the five or ten seconds are reviewed, the shooting can seem much more clouded. While the court may well end up just considering those five or ten seconds to determine guilt or innocence the decision to take the event to court and the court of public opinion often seem to consider a broader view of events.

At the risk of being repetitive for every shooting I have been to or read of in which it was instantly clear who was the good guy and who was the bad guy, there was another in which the lines were at best very blurry.
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Old 07-22-2012, 12:16   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaTrooper View Post
The question was whether or not to defend the legless manager if he was assaulted by three large, irate customers.


Over a $5 scrimp cocktail? Pick your battles, this one was not worth fighting over for all parties involved.

The best option would to be offer to pay for the three mens $5 cocktail, everyone wins.
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Old 07-23-2012, 08:31   #15
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Originally Posted by 4 glocks View Post

Over a $5 scrimp cocktail? Pick your battles, this one was not worth fighting over for all parties involved.

The best option would to be offer to pay for the three mens $5 cocktail, everyone wins.
Viable 3rd option and probably a better way to keep someone from getting assaulted, but do you end up drawing a line on how much you pay to keep the peace? What if it was a $500 dollar tab?

If you decide to get involved at all, have more than one scenario played through. Just sayin'
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Old 07-23-2012, 09:07   #16
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Originally Posted by 4 glocks View Post
Is a $5 to $8 shrimp cocktail worth the hassel? If they paid for everything else let it go. Sounds to me like all involved mishandeled the situation. I would not put anyone's life in danger over $5.
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Old 07-23-2012, 09:15   #17
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If the manager were smart, he wouldn't have let the situation escalated at all.

He'd simply call the cops and report them after he asked them to pay and they said no.

I doubt that there is anything in any company's manual that would say employees are to physically detain customers over bills unpaid.
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Old 07-23-2012, 09:40   #18
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If a handicapped person was being physically battered it would be expected that someone would intervene on their behalf.

Saying that, was the dirty bowl issue brought up when it was discovered, or after the bill was brought to the table? Whatever the issue, once the men were asked to pay and refused, the manager has two choices, one to let it go and apologize for the dirty bowl, or call the police. Arguing with patrons at that point is senseless.
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Old 07-23-2012, 11:29   #19
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Not My Fight. MyFamily different story. GAME ON .
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Old 07-23-2012, 12:34   #20
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Not My Fight. MyFamily different story. GAME ON .
Lots of people thinking that way.
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