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Old 07-22-2012, 12:13   #1
SFla27
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LCP Stovepipe on last round...What the heck?...

I can't explain it.

No limp wristing.

Gun is perfectly clean and relatively new (~150 rounds)

This morning at the range, for the 6 or 7 magazines fired, the last four had the last round in each magazine not ejected and the casing was in the chamber. I don't even know if the slide went back. The round went off, but the casing remained...

It's not a feeding issue, so could we rule out a weak mag spring?

I was using a different ammo this time: Speer Lawman FMJ. Could it the LCP be finicky with the Lawman ammo?

I don't think so because of this repeatable condition.

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Old 07-22-2012, 12:19   #2
Bodyarmorguy
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In know I will get flamed, but.....LCP=Little Crappy Pistol.
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Old 07-22-2012, 12:26   #3
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Just polish the chamber. When I first got my LCP I had a few cases not eject. Polished the chamber and ramp and it never happened again. If that dose not work Ruger will make it wright.
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Old 07-22-2012, 12:43   #4
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I don't own an LCP, but a P3AT. I have over the years decided that to test reliability in this kind of gun, I'll take it out of my pocket as is (w/o cleaning or even pulling lint off) and fire all 7 rounds as fast as possible. If no hiccups, then it's fine. I'll take it home, clean it, and stick it back in my pocket until next time I go to the range.

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Old 07-22-2012, 13:18   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodyarmorguy View Post
In know I will get flamed, but.....LCP=Little Crappy Pistol.
Nah. You shouldn't get flamed. It is what it is.

Granted, I was able to fire all six rounds from those last four magazines.

However, my confidence has been shaken a bit in this pistol no doubt.

It's obvious tolerances could be a tad bit tighter on the LCP. But considering it's basically mass produced, it does work for the most part.

I'm going to call Ruger on this on Monday and will report back their level of customer service. Given that they're a pretty big company, I am not expecting much.
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Old 07-22-2012, 19:34   #6
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Originally Posted by Bodyarmorguy View Post
In know I will get flamed, but.....LCP=Little Crappy Pistol.

Of course some of them aren't going to work perfectly, and this is true of every autoloading firearm ever made.

Most reviews and user experiences are 100% positive with regards to reliability. For what it is (a recently-designed micro .380 ACP) it has a very strong reputation.

It isn't like the Diamondback pistols, where reviews are almost universally negative concerning their reliability.

Last edited by Andrewsky; 07-22-2012 at 19:35..
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Old 07-22-2012, 19:38   #7
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Originally Posted by SFla27 View Post
Nah. You shouldn't get flamed. It is what it is.

Granted, I was able to fire all six rounds from those last four magazines.

However, my confidence has been shaken a bit in this pistol no doubt.

It's obvious tolerances could be a tad bit tighter on the LCP. But considering it's basically mass produced, it does work for the most part.

I'm going to call Ruger on this on Monday and will report back their level of customer service. Given that they're a pretty big company, I am not expecting much.
You should never trust any firearm. They are ALL prone to failure.

A lot of people who don't shoot their guns enough don't understand this. Nevertheless, it's why malfunction clearance drills are prominent in tactical training courses and why back-up guns are such a popular item.
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Old 07-22-2012, 20:31   #8
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Originally Posted by Andrewsky View Post
You should never trust any firearm. They are ALL prone to failure.

A lot of people who don't shoot their guns enough don't understand this. Nevertheless, it's why malfunction clearance drills are prominent in tactical training courses and why back-up guns are such a popular item.
I understand what you are saying. All who carry should practice clearance drills and be prepared for malfunctions. That's pretty fundamental.

However, the failure rate I experienced was statistically-significant to warrant a posting here on GT to see if others have experienced similar behavior. Could it be an out-of-spec extractor? Could it just be a non-optimal combination of ammo choice plus pistol tolerance / manufacturing variation?

This is my BUG, or my primary when I can not carry my G27. As such, the LCP is not strictly for the range and I need to have a certain confidence level with it.
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Old 07-23-2012, 07:57   #9
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I know you say there is no way it could be limp wristing, but the fact is the lighter the gun is, the more likely limp wristing is to occur and the gun is lightest when the mag is empty. I would have another shooter who is experienced with shooting this kind of pistol try it and see if he has the same problem.

True story. I was shooting my PF9 at the range one day (not long after they came out) and the guys in the next lane were interested in it. I let them try it out. 2 of the three guys had FTE malfunctions on their first shot. The 3rd guy had no problem. I promptly put another 50 rounds through it with the same ammo/magazine without any problems.

Turned out the 2 guys who had malfunctions were new shooters. The guy who didn't have any problems was a highly experienced shooter. I'm sure the 2 guys who had problems that day are convinced the PF9 is a POS and that they don't limp wrist (after all two of them had the same problem). All I can say is that my wife and I have put over 1000 rounds through this pistol without a single malfunction. Draw your own conclusions about my experience.

Shooting tiny, lightweight pistols is not for beginners. You have to really have a firm grasp on the pistol and not let it flip back while firing. This is harder to do when the pistol has such a tiny grip and doesn't weigh much. I think that may be part of the reason why j-frame revolvers are so popular for deep CCW. Shooting these tiny pistols is not something everyone can do without training and practice.

I would try again paying special attention to your grip and hold. The pistol should be nestled into the web of your hand and you should be able to draw a line from your elbow through the sights of the gun.

General Firearms Forum

This is an example of how not to hold a pistol. Usually this happens when the pistol is too large for you (not normally a problem with an LCP), but it is possible you have a bad habit (it can happen to any of us).

General Firearms Forum

I really like Kathy's website. Her advice is aimed at women shooters, but it has lots of sound advice for all of us.

http://www.corneredcat.com/Contents/

P.S. I noticed you mentioned this problem was occurring after you changed ammo. Pocket pistols are more likely to be ammo sensitive than larger pistols both from a feeding standpoint and for cycling. I always use the hottest ammo available in my pocket pistols because the extra impulse means I am less likely to have cycling issues due to grip/limp wristing. I have never used the ammo you mentioned, but I would retest with your normal ammo also.

My wife uses WWB 95g FMJ for practice and Speer 90g Gold Dot for carry in her LCP. Both of those have been flawless for her.
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Last edited by Haldor; 07-23-2012 at 08:23..
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Old 07-23-2012, 08:17   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haldor View Post
I know you say there is no way it could be limp wristing, but the fact is the lighter the gun is, the more likely limp wristing is to occur and the gun is lightest when the mag is empty. I would have another experienced shooter try it and see if he has the same problem.

True story. I was shooting my PF9 at the range one day (not long after they came out) and the guys in next lane were interested in it. I let them try it out. 2 of the three guys had FTE malfunctions on their first shot. The 3rd guy had no problem. I promptly put another 50 rounds through it with the same ammo/magazine without any problems.

Turned out the 2 guys who had malfunctions were new shooters. The guy who didn't have any problems was a highly experienced shooter. I'm sure the 2 guys who had problems that day are convinced the PF9 is a POS and that they don't limp wrist. All I can say is that my wife and I have put over 1000 rounds through this pistol without a single malfunction.

Shooting tiny, lightweight pistols is not for beginners. You have to really have a firm grasp on the pistol and not let it flip back while firing. This is harder to do when the pistol has such a tiny grip and doesn't weigh much. I think that may be part of the reason why j-frame revolvers are so popular for deep CCW. Shooting these tiny pistols is not something everyone can do.
You know Haldor...you've got a point.

I hold my LCP like I hold my 27. Firm and consistent two-handed grip. The LCP doesn't go anywhere in my hands as I know that little thing can kick up.

So far, I have taken the LCP to the range about five times and fired an average of 30 to 40 rounds per range session. In all previous range sessions, this occurrence (stovepipe of the last round / FTE) has never happened with such frequency.

And since I am relatively new to a pistol as small as the LCP, my grip and overall technique has gotten marginally-better over time as I am becoming more comfortable and shooting tighter groups at a faster pace (well...relatively speaking, of course). And I even recently installed some Talon rubber grips (which are superb).

Here's what was different this time around:

-Different ammunition (used a box of Speer Lawman FMJ for the first time).

-I was only using one magazine. So I couldn't compare behavior with another mag.

-I *believe* or thought my hand position was sufficient. Hey..we can all use improvement here, right?


Let's take down some possible scenarios:

-Hand grip and position of the pistol relative to the hands may not have been optimal combined with pistol being lightest with only the last round.

-Insufficient experience with pocket pistols.

-Insufficient power of the cartridge (make/model) to ensure proper slide / extractor function.

-Although the pistol was clean and lightly-lubed prior to the range, maybe it could have used a little more lube on the rails and slide. (But I'm reaching here...)

I agree that a pistol usually behaves differently in the hands of an experienced shooter. Makes sense.

I will still call Ruger and see what they have to say.

The next time at the range, I will use a mix of ammunition and will bring multiple magazines, in addition to the mental notes as a result of this thread.

Edit: Almost forgot, Haldor, thank you for your wisdom, sir.

Last edited by SFla27; 07-23-2012 at 08:23..
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Old 07-23-2012, 11:18   #11
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Did you try a different magazine?
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Old 07-23-2012, 13:00   #12
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Did you try a different magazine?
wjv,

I was only using one magazine, so I couldn't compare with another. Based on what was actually happening, I wasn't concerned all that much with the magazine. It didn't look like the pistol was feeding incorrectly. All rounds made it into the chamber with no fuss.

But in the world of automatic pistols and their relative complexity, the next time I go to the range, I will bring more than one. Guess I should have to begin with...
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