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Old 08-13-2012, 10:17   #226
KalashniKEV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwalchmai View Post
Could you post a link to cite that, please?
http://bit.ly/QXcTH3
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Old 08-13-2012, 10:18   #227
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Originally Posted by kensb2 View Post
That wasn't what I said, but ok. I'd say it's pretty naive to think that her promotion had absolutely nothing to do with her being 'openly' gay.
Why? Because you have insider's information that I don't? Were you sitting on her promotion board?

Quote:
Like I said earlier, her service record is probably damned good, and she was qualified to be considered for the appointment. But if I'm sitting on the JCS, and the last 2 packets that come across my desk are equal, and 1 is a white male, the other is her...chances are she gets the promotion recommendation. Why? Because the military was intolerant of black people, and women, and gays for so long. How do you change that perception? By doing things that are highly visible to both the troops, and general public.
That may be YOU, but not necessarily everybody else.
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Old 08-13-2012, 10:18   #228
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Originally Posted by gwalchmai View Post
Could you post a link to cite that, please? I don't recall that ever being mentioned when I was in. Of course, oral sex may not have been invented back then...
Google MCM 2012, it's in there.....
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Old 08-13-2012, 10:22   #229
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Military promotions are political at the lowest level. Is it so unbelievable that it would be so at the highest levels? Have you ever had any say on a soldiers promotion in the military before? I think this thread is getting away from the point now, though. If she lied to get in, then she lied to get in. The UCMJ says what the appropriate punishment is. And I'm pretty sure that the punishment for ALL 134 articles aren't the same.
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Old 08-13-2012, 10:23   #230
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Originally Posted by gwalchmai View Post
Could you post a link to cite that, please? I don't recall that ever being mentioned when I was in. Of course, oral sex may not have been invented back then...
http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/ucmj2.htm

Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ)

ART. 125. SODOMY


(a) Any person subject to this chapter who engages in unnatural carnal copulation with another person of the same or opposite sex or with an animal is guilty of sodomy. Penetration , however slight, is sufficient to complete the offense.

(b) Any person found guilty of sodomy shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.
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Last edited by fnfalman; 08-13-2012 at 10:24..
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Old 08-13-2012, 10:30   #231
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Define unnatural carnal copulation
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Old 08-13-2012, 10:36   #232
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Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
Yeah, I see where you're coming from. Generals and admirals who aren't white were also promoted because of politics too, and not because of their achievements either.
Sadly, that was (is?) true in some cases. When Affirmative Action was first instituted, the services jumped through the hoops in an effort to level the playing field as quickly as possible. There was a period when the field was over-tilted beyond level; and things were more "affirmative" than they should have been.

It's just a fact of life that military promotions at the upper echelons have always been influenced, to a degree, by politics. It's equally true that non-whites being considered for higher ranks in the early days of Affirmative Action reaped the benefits of "being in the right place at the right time."

I've been retired too long to know if the same situation still exists; but I suspect it is less of an issue now than it was during the seventies.
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Old 08-13-2012, 10:55   #233
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Originally Posted by ChuteTheMall View Post
Define unnatural carnal copulation
Post #212 and first reference in my above link.
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Old 08-13-2012, 12:11   #234
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Looks like the homo bashers lost this thread.


Sorry Chute, Maybe if you look up to someone with a little more intellectual capacity than who is in your avatar, you might have better luck next time.
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Old 08-13-2012, 12:16   #235
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"homo bashers"? Insults are the last refuge of someone losing an argument, Rust.

Or am I crazy?
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Old 08-13-2012, 12:20   #236
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______________

"...heh heh...he said endgame ...heh heh[/beavis]

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"that word....they do not think it means what we think it means....[/inigo]

I bet you giggle when an announcer mentions the tight-ends during football games too.
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Old 08-13-2012, 12:23   #237
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Originally Posted by gwalchmai View Post
"homo bashers"? Insults are the last refuge of someone losing an argument, Rust.

Or am I crazy?

The argument has long been over, ever since kalishnakev and FN fal man ended it with citations and facts.


Sorry your team lost, take it like a man, and maybe even throw in an apology. If you're confused on any of this, refer back to the last few pages.


ETA - if you want the rules to be the "rules" then we should can 90%+ of the military for giving or receiving oral.

Last edited by OctoberRust; 08-13-2012 at 12:26..
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Old 08-13-2012, 12:24   #238
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Originally Posted by KalashniKEV View Post
... You can smell the Fear in every word they post. ...
Ugh..... I don't think anyone is scared of homosexuals.

I think it has been made plain the topic is about lying so as to secure a commission/promotion. (Personally, I hold Officers to a higher standard than Enlisted personnel.)
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Old 08-13-2012, 12:31   #239
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Originally Posted by OctoberRust View Post
The argument has long been over, ever since kalishnakev and FN fal man ended it with citations and facts.


Sorry your team lost, take it like a man, and maybe even throw in an apology. If you're confused on any of this, refer back to the last few pages.


ETA - if you want the rules to be the "rules" then we should can 90%+ of the military for giving or receiving oral.
Not so fast, we are still waiting on the unnatural carnal copulation definition.
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"Love 'Em All!!! Let Jehovah sort 'em out." - The Holy Bible
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Old 08-13-2012, 12:36   #240
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Not so fast, we are still waiting on the unnatural carnal copulation definition.

UCMJ article 125 leaves it open for interpretation it seems. So basically almost everyone in the military is guilty to begin with, and subject to punishment whenever they see fit.

Anyways, it's all or nothing gay bashers. Come on.
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Old 08-13-2012, 12:42   #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OctoberRust View Post
The argument has long been over, ever since kalishnakev and FN fal man ended it with citations and facts.


Sorry your team lost, take it like a man, and maybe even throw in an apology. If you're confused on any of this, refer back to the last few pages.


ETA - if you want the rules to be the "rules" then we should can 90%+ of the military for giving or receiving oral.
Well, no, not really. The real truth is that PC promotions and Affirmative Action always result in lowered standards and a weaker military. Many of us see that and are saddened by it.

So yeah, my team lost.
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Old 08-13-2012, 12:51   #242
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Originally Posted by OctoberRust View Post
UCMJ article 125 leaves it open for interpretation it seems. So basically almost everyone in the military is guilty to begin with, and subject to punishment whenever they see fit.

Anyways, it's all or nothing gay bashers. Come on.
gay bashers? Ummmm... yeah.


I don't bash homosexuals, and as I mentioned before, if a heterosexual woman lied in order to receive a commission, would that be okay with you?
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Old 08-13-2012, 13:00   #243
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I don't bash homosexuals, and as I mentioned before, if a heterosexual woman lied in order to receive a commission, would that be okay with you?
Officers and enlisted lie all the times, some lies are big and some lies are small. However, all the lies violate the UCMJ codes and code of conducts. So...now what?
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Old 08-13-2012, 13:03   #244
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Originally Posted by OctoberRust View Post
The argument has long been over, ever since kalishnakev and FN fal man ended it with citations and facts.


Sorry your team lost, take it like a man, and maybe even throw in an apology. If you're confused on any of this, refer back to the last few pages.


ETA - if you want the rules to be the "rules" then we should can 90%+ of the military for giving or receiving oral.
Only 90%? I think you're being pretty conservative with that figure. Maybe someone will come along to tell us how natural it is...



ETA: Sorry, I missed the +.

Last edited by nmk; 08-13-2012 at 13:03..
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Old 08-13-2012, 13:17   #245
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“I don’t think I need to be focused on that," Stripes quoted Smith as saying. "What is relevant is upholding Army values and the responsibility this carries.”
Thats why shes a General and you're all keyboard kommandos.
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Old 08-13-2012, 13:18   #246
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Originally Posted by Bren View Post
NO. The answer is pretty obvious - the medal of honor is given for specific acts and has nothing to do with the soldier's career, before or after.

Promotion, on the other hand, is based on the whole career. If this general had 20 years in and joined during Don't Ask Don't Tell, that would be perfectly legitimate. I'd suspect the promotion, or the surrounding publicity, was political and was being used to motivate a particular voting base at this particular time (a group that is small but has a lot of influence in the media) but there wouldn't be the same question.

In this case, the Army has chosen to promote an officer to general who has made it clear that she has lied to the Army, her superiors, subordinates, etc., throughout her careeer.



Maybe and maybe not - it probably isn't in her military records that the senate reviews. I don't know how much outside investigation is done. Prior to this administration, any actual mention in her records that she was a lesbian would have been cause to throw her out of the Army.
That is a nice way to twist it. However, if the MOH recipient was honest, he may never have been able to join in the first place. Like you said, this is all about lying.
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Last edited by Glock13; 08-13-2012 at 13:20..
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Old 08-13-2012, 13:30   #247
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Originally Posted by Peace Warrior View Post
Not so fast, we are still waiting on the unnatural carnal copulation definition.
If it's genetically determined, how can it be unnatural?
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Old 08-13-2012, 13:32   #248
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Only 90%? I think you're being pretty conservative with that figure. Maybe someone will come along to tell us how natural it is...



ETA: Sorry, I missed the +.

Well, the other 10% are lying.

I just left that tid-bit of information out.
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Old 08-13-2012, 13:33   #249
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Well, no, not really. The real truth is that PC promotions and Affirmative Action always result in lowered standards and a weaker military. Many of us see that and are saddened by it.

So yeah, my team lost.

Affirmative action?


Wow, you should look up that definition.

Yea, I'm saddened by affirmative action too, two wrongs don't make a right.
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Old 08-13-2012, 14:05   #250
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I don't bash homosexuals...
You just make reference to their supposed desire to destroy the institution of the family and point to, as evidence, a supposed 'homosexual manifesto.'

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