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08-13-2012, 10:17
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#226
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NoVA
Posts: 4,059
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwalchmai
Could you post a link to cite that, please?
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http://bit.ly/QXcTH3
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08-13-2012, 10:18
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#227
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Chicks Dig It
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: California & New Mexico, US
Posts: 50,582
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kensb2
That wasn't what I said, but ok. I'd say it's pretty naive to think that her promotion had absolutely nothing to do with her being 'openly' gay.
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Why? Because you have insider's information that I don't? Were you sitting on her promotion board?
Quote:
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Like I said earlier, her service record is probably damned good, and she was qualified to be considered for the appointment. But if I'm sitting on the JCS, and the last 2 packets that come across my desk are equal, and 1 is a white male, the other is her...chances are she gets the promotion recommendation. Why? Because the military was intolerant of black people, and women, and gays for so long. How do you change that perception? By doing things that are highly visible to both the troops, and general public.
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That may be YOU, but not necessarily everybody else.
__________________
Can you dig it?
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08-13-2012, 10:18
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#228
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pistol n00b
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Apache, OK
Posts: 1,366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwalchmai
Could you post a link to cite that, please? I don't recall that ever being mentioned when I was in. Of course, oral sex may not have been invented back then...
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Google MCM 2012, it's in there.....
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08-13-2012, 10:22
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#229
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pistol n00b
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Apache, OK
Posts: 1,366
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Military promotions are political at the lowest level. Is it so unbelievable that it would be so at the highest levels? Have you ever had any say on a soldiers promotion in the military before? I think this thread is getting away from the point now, though. If she lied to get in, then she lied to get in. The UCMJ says what the appropriate punishment is. And I'm pretty sure that the punishment for ALL 134 articles aren't the same.
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08-13-2012, 10:23
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#230
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Chicks Dig It
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: California & New Mexico, US
Posts: 50,582
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwalchmai
Could you post a link to cite that, please? I don't recall that ever being mentioned when I was in. Of course, oral sex may not have been invented back then...
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http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/ucmj2.htm
Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ)
ART. 125. SODOMY
(a) Any person subject to this chapter who engages in unnatural carnal copulation with another person of the same or opposite sex or with an animal is guilty of sodomy. Penetration , however slight, is sufficient to complete the offense.
(b) Any person found guilty of sodomy shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.
__________________
Can you dig it?
Last edited by fnfalman; 08-13-2012 at 10:24..
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08-13-2012, 10:30
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#231
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Anti-Obama
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Rope & Chains
Posts: 55,535
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Define unnatural carnal copulation
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08-13-2012, 10:36
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#232
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fnfalman
Yeah, I see where you're coming from. Generals and admirals who aren't white were also promoted because of politics too, and not because of their achievements either.
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Sadly, that was (is?) true in some cases. When Affirmative Action was first instituted, the services jumped through the hoops in an effort to level the playing field as quickly as possible. There was a period when the field was over-tilted beyond level; and things were more "affirmative" than they should have been.
It's just a fact of life that military promotions at the upper echelons have always been influenced, to a degree, by politics. It's equally true that non-whites being considered for higher ranks in the early days of Affirmative Action reaped the benefits of "being in the right place at the right time."
I've been retired too long to know if the same situation still exists; but I suspect it is less of an issue now than it was during the seventies.
__________________
Hope and Hype....There is a difference.
Last edited by napp32; 08-13-2012 at 10:37..
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08-13-2012, 10:55
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#233
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NoVA
Posts: 4,059
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuteTheMall
Define unnatural carnal copulation |
Post #212 and first reference in my above link.
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08-13-2012, 12:11
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#234
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Anti-Federalist
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,609
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Looks like the homo bashers lost this thread.
Sorry Chute, Maybe if you look up to someone with a little more intellectual capacity than who is in your avatar, you might have better luck next time. 
__________________
If you don't pay taxes, you shouldn't vote.
"A tax loophole is something that benefits the other guy. If it benefits you, it's called a tax reform"
When Obama raises your boss's taxes, and you lose your job, how does that make you better off?
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08-13-2012, 12:16
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#235
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Lead Membership
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Outside the perimeter
Posts: 41,612
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"homo bashers"? Insults are the last refuge of someone losing an argument, Rust.
Or am I crazy?
__________________
I'll submit to an audited open-records background check the same day Obama does.
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08-13-2012, 12:20
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#236
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CLM Number 221
Am Yisrael Chai
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: watching the Son rise again. ;)
Posts: 23,757
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuteTheMall
 ______________ 
"...heh heh...he said endgame ...heh heh[/beavis]
 ____________ 
"that word....they do not think it means what we think it means....[/inigo]
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I bet you giggle when an announcer mentions the tight-ends during football games too. 
__________________
“After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it.” - William S. Burroughs
"Nothing we're gonna do is going to fundamentally alter or eliminate the possibility of another mass shooting or guarantee that [our gun ban legislation] will bring gun deaths down..." - VPOTUS Joe Biden
"The object in quitting the Union was not to destroy, but to save the principles of the Constitution." - Alexander Stephens
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08-13-2012, 12:23
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#237
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Anti-Federalist
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,609
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwalchmai
"homo bashers"? Insults are the last refuge of someone losing an argument, Rust.
Or am I crazy?
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The argument has long been over, ever since kalishnakev and FN fal man ended it with citations and facts.
Sorry your team lost, take it like a man, and maybe even throw in an apology. If you're confused on any of this, refer back to the last few pages.
ETA - if you want the rules to be the "rules" then we should can 90%+ of the military for giving or receiving oral.
__________________
If you don't pay taxes, you shouldn't vote.
"A tax loophole is something that benefits the other guy. If it benefits you, it's called a tax reform"
When Obama raises your boss's taxes, and you lose your job, how does that make you better off?
Last edited by OctoberRust; 08-13-2012 at 12:26..
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08-13-2012, 12:24
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#238
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CLM Number 221
Am Yisrael Chai
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: watching the Son rise again. ;)
Posts: 23,757
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KalashniKEV
... You can smell the Fear in every word they post. ...
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Ugh..... I don't think anyone is scared of homosexuals.
I think it has been made plain the topic is about lying so as to secure a commission/promotion. (Personally, I hold Officers to a higher standard than Enlisted personnel.)
__________________
“After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it.” - William S. Burroughs
"Nothing we're gonna do is going to fundamentally alter or eliminate the possibility of another mass shooting or guarantee that [our gun ban legislation] will bring gun deaths down..." - VPOTUS Joe Biden
"The object in quitting the Union was not to destroy, but to save the principles of the Constitution." - Alexander Stephens
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08-13-2012, 12:31
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#239
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CLM Number 221
Am Yisrael Chai
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: watching the Son rise again. ;)
Posts: 23,757
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OctoberRust
The argument has long been over, ever since kalishnakev and FN fal man ended it with citations and facts.
Sorry your team lost, take it like a man, and maybe even throw in an apology. If you're confused on any of this, refer back to the last few pages.
ETA - if you want the rules to be the "rules" then we should can 90%+ of the military for giving or receiving oral.
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Not so fast, we are still waiting on the unnatural carnal copulation definition.
__________________
“After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it.” - William S. Burroughs
"Nothing we're gonna do is going to fundamentally alter or eliminate the possibility of another mass shooting or guarantee that [our gun ban legislation] will bring gun deaths down..." - VPOTUS Joe Biden
"The object in quitting the Union was not to destroy, but to save the principles of the Constitution." - Alexander Stephens
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08-13-2012, 12:36
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#240
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Anti-Federalist
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,609
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peace Warrior
Not so fast, we are still waiting on the unnatural carnal copulation definition.
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UCMJ article 125 leaves it open for interpretation it seems. So basically almost everyone in the military is guilty to begin with, and subject to punishment whenever they see fit.
Anyways, it's all or nothing gay bashers. Come on.
__________________
If you don't pay taxes, you shouldn't vote.
"A tax loophole is something that benefits the other guy. If it benefits you, it's called a tax reform"
When Obama raises your boss's taxes, and you lose your job, how does that make you better off?
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08-13-2012, 12:42
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#241
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Lead Membership
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Outside the perimeter
Posts: 41,612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OctoberRust
The argument has long been over, ever since kalishnakev and FN fal man ended it with citations and facts.
Sorry your team lost, take it like a man, and maybe even throw in an apology. If you're confused on any of this, refer back to the last few pages.
ETA - if you want the rules to be the "rules" then we should can 90%+ of the military for giving or receiving oral.
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Well, no, not really. The real truth is that PC promotions and Affirmative Action always result in lowered standards and a weaker military. Many of us see that and are saddened by it.
So yeah, my team lost.
__________________
I'll submit to an audited open-records background check the same day Obama does.
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08-13-2012, 12:51
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#242
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CLM Number 221
Am Yisrael Chai
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: watching the Son rise again. ;)
Posts: 23,757
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OctoberRust
UCMJ article 125 leaves it open for interpretation it seems. So basically almost everyone in the military is guilty to begin with, and subject to punishment whenever they see fit.
Anyways, it's all or nothing gay bashers. Come on.
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gay bashers? Ummmm... yeah.
I don't bash homosexuals, and as I mentioned before, if a heterosexual woman lied in order to receive a commission, would that be okay with you?
__________________
“After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it.” - William S. Burroughs
"Nothing we're gonna do is going to fundamentally alter or eliminate the possibility of another mass shooting or guarantee that [our gun ban legislation] will bring gun deaths down..." - VPOTUS Joe Biden
"The object in quitting the Union was not to destroy, but to save the principles of the Constitution." - Alexander Stephens
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08-13-2012, 13:00
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#243
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Chicks Dig It
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: California & New Mexico, US
Posts: 50,582
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peace Warrior
I don't bash homosexuals, and as I mentioned before, if a heterosexual woman lied in order to receive a commission, would that be okay with you?
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Officers and enlisted lie all the times, some lies are big and some lies are small. However, all the lies violate the UCMJ codes and code of conducts. So...now what?
__________________
Can you dig it?
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08-13-2012, 13:03
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#244
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OctoberRust
The argument has long been over, ever since kalishnakev and FN fal man ended it with citations and facts.
Sorry your team lost, take it like a man, and maybe even throw in an apology. If you're confused on any of this, refer back to the last few pages.
ETA - if you want the rules to be the "rules" then we should can 90%+ of the military for giving or receiving oral.
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Only 90%? I think you're being pretty conservative with that figure. Maybe someone will come along to tell us how natural it is...
ETA: Sorry, I missed the +.
Last edited by nmk; 08-13-2012 at 13:03..
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08-13-2012, 13:17
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#245
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Raven
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Tampa, Fl.
Posts: 6,679
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Quote:
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“I don’t think I need to be focused on that," Stripes quoted Smith as saying. "What is relevant is upholding Army values and the responsibility this carries.”
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Thats why shes a General and you're all keyboard kommandos.
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08-13-2012, 13:18
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#246
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Eglin AFB
Posts: 2,650
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bren
NO. The answer is pretty obvious - the medal of honor is given for specific acts and has nothing to do with the soldier's career, before or after.
Promotion, on the other hand, is based on the whole career. If this general had 20 years in and joined during Don't Ask Don't Tell, that would be perfectly legitimate. I'd suspect the promotion, or the surrounding publicity, was political and was being used to motivate a particular voting base at this particular time (a group that is small but has a lot of influence in the media) but there wouldn't be the same question.
In this case, the Army has chosen to promote an officer to general who has made it clear that she has lied to the Army, her superiors, subordinates, etc., throughout her careeer.
Maybe and maybe not - it probably isn't in her military records that the senate reviews. I don't know how much outside investigation is done. Prior to this administration, any actual mention in her records that she was a lesbian would have been cause to throw her out of the Army.
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That is a nice way to twist it. However, if the MOH recipient was honest, he may never have been able to join in the first place. Like you said, this is all about lying.
__________________
PUTTING WARHEADS ON FOREHEADS...
Last edited by Glock13; 08-13-2012 at 13:20..
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08-13-2012, 13:30
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#247
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Anti-Obama
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Rope & Chains
Posts: 55,535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peace Warrior
Not so fast, we are still waiting on the unnatural carnal copulation definition.
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If it's genetically determined, how can it be unnatural? 
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08-13-2012, 13:32
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#248
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Anti-Federalist
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,609
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nmk
Only 90%? I think you're being pretty conservative with that figure. Maybe someone will come along to tell us how natural it is...
ETA: Sorry, I missed the +. |
Well, the other 10% are lying.
I just left that tid-bit of information out.
__________________
If you don't pay taxes, you shouldn't vote.
"A tax loophole is something that benefits the other guy. If it benefits you, it's called a tax reform"
When Obama raises your boss's taxes, and you lose your job, how does that make you better off?
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08-13-2012, 13:33
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#249
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Anti-Federalist
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,609
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwalchmai
Well, no, not really. The real truth is that PC promotions and Affirmative Action always result in lowered standards and a weaker military. Many of us see that and are saddened by it.
So yeah, my team lost.
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Affirmative action?
Wow, you should look up that definition.
Yea, I'm saddened by affirmative action too, two wrongs don't make a right.
__________________
If you don't pay taxes, you shouldn't vote.
"A tax loophole is something that benefits the other guy. If it benefits you, it's called a tax reform"
When Obama raises your boss's taxes, and you lose your job, how does that make you better off?
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08-13-2012, 14:05
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#250
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,856
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peace Warrior
I don't bash homosexuals...
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You just make reference to their supposed desire to destroy the institution of the family and point to, as evidence, a supposed 'homosexual manifesto.'
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