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Old 08-13-2012, 08:41   #201
KalashniKEV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dereklord View Post
I may wet the bed, but...

I am a realist. I have nothing against anyone for things that they cannont control. However, being a realist, I have to say that I have issues with people if they were to CHOOSE to do something wrong. This lady can do and be whatever she wants. Heck, she could move on to Columbia and get involved in the international drug trade for all that matters. But, if she lied, she should be able to accept the consequenses. If she gets caught while in Columbia producing/packaging/transporting 200 kilo's of boogar sugar, she should be able to accept the consequenses. Either way, she might be a fine American and a nice person.
Now that's a better analogy, she should have known that her sexuality barred her from the possibility of service to Nation.

The fact that she kept her sexual business to herself, chose to sign the dotted line, raise her right hand and risk it all... despite all of this...

now that's much more similar to producing/packaging/transporting 200 kilos of cocaine than serial murder or child molestation.



Dude... go see a shrink!
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Old 08-13-2012, 08:45   #202
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The question still remains if there was actually a written question "Are you gay?" on the application that she signed. Or if it was the verbal question as mentioned before, was she under oath? Finally, regardless of her promotions, what is the army punishment for lying on your application? I suppose it depends on the lie, but there has to be a minimum punishment of some sort. Does the lying on the application strip you of your position and awards? There must be some case history of something similar.
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Old 08-13-2012, 08:51   #203
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The question still remains if there was actually a written question "Are you gay?" on the application that she signed.
I took no Sex Oath in 1998, but that was after DADT ('93).

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Finally, regardless of her promotions, what is the army punishment for lying on your application?
Article 83 Fraudulent Enlistment or Appointment.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/punit...es/a/mcm83.htm
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Old 08-13-2012, 08:57   #204
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I took no Sex Oath in 1998, but that was after DADT ('93).



Article 83 Fraudulent Enlistment or Appointment.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/punit...es/a/mcm83.htm
So, it says punishment is basically whatever a court martial decides. Could be that they don't even bother with the gay issue, who knows?

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Old 08-13-2012, 08:57   #205
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It's hard to say how deserving she is of this promotion, without seeing her service record. I'd have to guess that it's pretty damned good. That being said, whether or not you agree(d) with the policies/UCMJ rules governing homosexuality in the military, they were still in place. They still had to be followed. I think people would view this differently if the only info out there was "Army promotes first flag officer that openly admits to lying on their enlistment/commision paperwork". If (big IF) she lied to get into the military, then she fraudulently enlisted and COULD be court martialed and kicked out. What I would want to see, at a minimum, is her receiving a letter of reprimand that would help bar her from further promotion, and a 1 grade reduction in rank. No, I don't care that she's gay, in case anyone is wondering. There are probably a great many things in the Army that people would view as "unfair". But you choose to join the Army.
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Old 08-13-2012, 08:58   #206
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The UCMJ considers oral sex to be a form of sodomy.

How many active duty military personnel have engaged in oral sex?
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Old 08-13-2012, 09:01   #207
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The UCMJ considers oral sex to be a form of sodomy.

How many active duty military personnel have engaged in oral sex?
Pobably a lot. And that would be one of those cases that doesn't seem "fair". It also states that the missionary position is the only acceptable sexual position. However, if someone were to get pictures of my wife performing oral sex on me, then I could be punished under the UCMJ. Realistically, would I be? Probably not. But could I be? Definitely.
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Old 08-13-2012, 09:05   #208
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Pobably a lot. And that would be one of those cases that doesn't seem "fair". It also states that the missionary position is the only acceptable sexual position. However, if someone were to get pictures of my wife performing oral sex on me, then I could be punished under the UCMJ. Realistically, would I be? Probably not. But could I be? Definitely.
You know it was against the UCMJ then why did you purposely violate the code?

Can I question your service and integrity now?
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Old 08-13-2012, 09:07   #209
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I think some of you guys should write Lieutenant General Dana Kyle Chipman, the Judge Advocate General of the United States Army, and see if he wants to prosecute this.

Here are your POCs:

http://www.dodig.mil/HOTLINE/Filing%...ices_popup.htm
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Old 08-13-2012, 09:13   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
The UCMJ considers oral sex to be a form of sodomy.
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Originally Posted by kensb2 View Post
It also states that the missionary position is the only acceptable sexual position.
What a bunch of party poopers.
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Old 08-13-2012, 09:14   #211
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You know it was against the UCMJ then why did you purposely violate the code?

Can I question your service and integrity now?
You can if you'd like. However, I never said that it happened. I said if it happened. I guess you just glossed over the word when I read the statement.
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Old 08-13-2012, 09:16   #212
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It also states that the missionary position is the only acceptable sexual position.
That's not what it says.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Article 125
“(a) Any person subject to this chapter who engages in unnatural carnal copulation with another person of the same or opposite sex or with an animal is guilty of sodomy. Penetration, however slight, is sufficient
to complete the offense.

(b) Any person found guilty of sodomy shall by punished as a court-martial may direct.”
I wasn't sure if "natural carnal copulation" could be construed to mean doggy style, because it is more natural... and always wondered if reverse cowgirl in the back of the FLA, in between the litter racks, was in violation of Article 125.

Then I discovered that the true definition is:

Quote:
It is unnatural carnal copulation for a person to take into that person’s mouth or anus the sexual organ of another person or of an animal; or to place that person’s sexual organ in the mouth or anus of another person or of an animal; or to have carnal copulation in any opening of the body, except the sexual parts, with another person; or to have carnal copulation with an animal.

Last edited by KalashniKEV; 08-13-2012 at 09:16..
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Old 08-13-2012, 09:16   #213
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Originally Posted by KalashniKEV View Post
I think some of you guys should write Lieutenant General Dana Kyle Chipman, the Judge Advocate General of the United States Army, and see if he wants to prosecute this.

Here are your POCs:

http://www.dodig.mil/HOTLINE/Filing%...ices_popup.htm
For him to do that would be career suicide. There is no way that this promotion isn't at least a little bit politically motivated. And not from the standpoint of the current Administration. More from the military machine saying that now that we've gotten rid of DADT, they have to show all the troops that it wasn't just lip service.
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Old 08-13-2012, 09:17   #214
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Quote:
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What a bunch of party poopers.
But that's The Law!!!
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Old 08-13-2012, 09:17   #215
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This is old news....but.....

http://www.stripes.com/news/panel-ur...my-ban-1.95937

Says most cases are not prosecuted.

Last edited by magic; 08-13-2012 at 09:18..
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Old 08-13-2012, 09:18   #216
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For him to do that would be career suicide. There is no way that this promotion isn't at least a little bit politically motivated. And not from the standpoint of the current Administration. More from the military machine saying that now that we've gotten rid of DADT, they have to show all the troops that it wasn't just lip service.
Yeah, I see where you're coming from. Generals and admirals who aren't white were also promoted because of politics too, and not because of their achievements either.
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Old 08-13-2012, 09:22   #217
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I thought I had read that in the UCMJ personally, but if not then I stand corrected (on the position statement).
And the reverse cowgirl in the back of the FLA would probably violate more than 1 article of the UCMJ, even if you had commited such an act with your wife. That being said, I probably (as your NCO) would've just told you not to do it again.
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Old 08-13-2012, 09:28   #218
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Yeah, I see where you're coming from. Generals and admirals who aren't white were also promoted because of politics too, and not because of their achievements either.
That wasn't what I said, but ok. I'd say it's pretty naive to think that her promotion had absolutely nothing to do with her being 'openly' gay. Like I said earlier, her service record is probably damned good, and she was qualified to be considered for the appointment. But if I'm sitting on the JCS, and the last 2 packets that come across my desk are equal, and 1 is a white male, the other is her...chances are she gets the promotion recommendation. Why? Because the military was intolerant of black people, and women, and gays for so long. How do you change that perception? By doing things that are highly visible to both the troops, and general public.
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Old 08-13-2012, 09:34   #219
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For him to do that would be career suicide.

More from the military machine saying that now that we've gotten rid of DADT, they have to show all the troops that it wasn't just lip service.
Career Suicide?

Certainly not.

It's not a completely baseless accusation like that birther kook.

Maybe her assigned soldiers should refuse her orders?

OR maybe we should fight WITH the team instead of against it!

:salute:

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That being said, I probably (as your NCO) would've just told you not to do it again.
I probably (as an officer) would have said, "Don't playa hate... congratulate, sar'nt!"



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Old 08-13-2012, 09:37   #220
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So it appears that every service member that ever had a BJ is a lier since they violated the same rule as she did ?
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