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Old 08-13-2012, 09:40   #221
KalashniKEV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ummagumma View Post
So it appears that every service member that ever had a BJ is a lier since they violated the same rule as she did ?
That's basically it... but come on, don't think about it too much, just get your HATE ON!

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Old 08-13-2012, 09:49   #222
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I always wondered why some people are so threatened by gays serving in the military. Maybe it's the thought of having thousands of well trained gay men and women with fully automatic weapons walking around asking: "Who did you call a fag?"
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Old 08-13-2012, 09:53   #223
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They didn't violate the same rules, IF she lied and fraudulently enlisted. And I would pose this question. Say next year, the gov't and military decide to make marijauna use legal. Does every soldier that pissed hot for it and lost rank get it all back, plus backpay, plus an extra promotion because that offense probably inhibited their career?
Again, I'm not against her having been promoted, she probably deserved it. And again, I don't personally care that she's gay, either.
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Old 08-13-2012, 10:12   #224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
The UCMJ considers oral sex to be a form of sodomy.
Could you post a link to cite that, please? I don't recall that ever being mentioned when I was in. Of course, oral sex may not have been invented back then...
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Old 08-13-2012, 10:16   #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ummagumma View Post
So it appears that every service member that ever had a BJ is a lier since they violated the same rule as she did ?
UCMJ code violation is UCMJ code violation. The violater knew about the code yet purposely flaunted it. I therefore question every military man and woman's ethics and integrity for doing so.
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Old 08-13-2012, 10:17   #226
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Originally Posted by gwalchmai View Post
Could you post a link to cite that, please?
http://bit.ly/QXcTH3
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Old 08-13-2012, 10:18   #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kensb2 View Post
That wasn't what I said, but ok. I'd say it's pretty naive to think that her promotion had absolutely nothing to do with her being 'openly' gay.
Why? Because you have insider's information that I don't? Were you sitting on her promotion board?

Quote:
Like I said earlier, her service record is probably damned good, and she was qualified to be considered for the appointment. But if I'm sitting on the JCS, and the last 2 packets that come across my desk are equal, and 1 is a white male, the other is her...chances are she gets the promotion recommendation. Why? Because the military was intolerant of black people, and women, and gays for so long. How do you change that perception? By doing things that are highly visible to both the troops, and general public.
That may be YOU, but not necessarily everybody else.
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Old 08-13-2012, 10:18   #228
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Originally Posted by gwalchmai View Post
Could you post a link to cite that, please? I don't recall that ever being mentioned when I was in. Of course, oral sex may not have been invented back then...
Google MCM 2012, it's in there.....
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Old 08-13-2012, 10:22   #229
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Military promotions are political at the lowest level. Is it so unbelievable that it would be so at the highest levels? Have you ever had any say on a soldiers promotion in the military before? I think this thread is getting away from the point now, though. If she lied to get in, then she lied to get in. The UCMJ says what the appropriate punishment is. And I'm pretty sure that the punishment for ALL 134 articles aren't the same.
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Old 08-13-2012, 10:23   #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwalchmai View Post
Could you post a link to cite that, please? I don't recall that ever being mentioned when I was in. Of course, oral sex may not have been invented back then...
http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/ucmj2.htm

Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ)

ART. 125. SODOMY


(a) Any person subject to this chapter who engages in unnatural carnal copulation with another person of the same or opposite sex or with an animal is guilty of sodomy. Penetration , however slight, is sufficient to complete the offense.

(b) Any person found guilty of sodomy shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.
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Old 08-13-2012, 10:30   #231
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Define unnatural carnal copulation
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Old 08-13-2012, 10:36   #232
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Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
Yeah, I see where you're coming from. Generals and admirals who aren't white were also promoted because of politics too, and not because of their achievements either.
Sadly, that was (is?) true in some cases. When Affirmative Action was first instituted, the services jumped through the hoops in an effort to level the playing field as quickly as possible. There was a period when the field was over-tilted beyond level; and things were more "affirmative" than they should have been.

It's just a fact of life that military promotions at the upper echelons have always been influenced, to a degree, by politics. It's equally true that non-whites being considered for higher ranks in the early days of Affirmative Action reaped the benefits of "being in the right place at the right time."

I've been retired too long to know if the same situation still exists; but I suspect it is less of an issue now than it was during the seventies.
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Old 08-13-2012, 10:55   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuteTheMall View Post
Define unnatural carnal copulation
Post #212 and first reference in my above link.
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Old 08-13-2012, 12:11   #234
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Looks like the homo bashers lost this thread.


Sorry Chute, Maybe if you look up to someone with a little more intellectual capacity than who is in your avatar, you might have better luck next time.
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Old 08-13-2012, 12:16   #235
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"homo bashers"? Insults are the last refuge of someone losing an argument, Rust.

Or am I crazy?
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Old 08-13-2012, 12:20   #236
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"...heh heh...he said endgame ...heh heh[/beavis]

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"that word....they do not think it means what we think it means....[/inigo]

I bet you giggle when an announcer mentions the tight-ends during football games too.
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Old 08-13-2012, 12:23   #237
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Originally Posted by gwalchmai View Post
"homo bashers"? Insults are the last refuge of someone losing an argument, Rust.

Or am I crazy?

The argument has long been over, ever since kalishnakev and FN fal man ended it with citations and facts.


Sorry your team lost, take it like a man, and maybe even throw in an apology. If you're confused on any of this, refer back to the last few pages.


ETA - if you want the rules to be the "rules" then we should can 90%+ of the military for giving or receiving oral.

Last edited by OctoberRust; 08-13-2012 at 12:26..
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Old 08-13-2012, 12:24   #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KalashniKEV View Post
... You can smell the Fear in every word they post. ...
Ugh..... I don't think anyone is scared of homosexuals.

I think it has been made plain the topic is about lying so as to secure a commission/promotion. (Personally, I hold Officers to a higher standard than Enlisted personnel.)
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Old 08-13-2012, 12:31   #239
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Originally Posted by OctoberRust View Post
The argument has long been over, ever since kalishnakev and FN fal man ended it with citations and facts.


Sorry your team lost, take it like a man, and maybe even throw in an apology. If you're confused on any of this, refer back to the last few pages.


ETA - if you want the rules to be the "rules" then we should can 90%+ of the military for giving or receiving oral.
Not so fast, we are still waiting on the unnatural carnal copulation definition.
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“I would call my attorney general in and review every single executive order issued by George Bush and overturn those laws or executive decisions that I feel violate the constitution.” - Barry Soetoro
"Love 'Em All!!! Let Jehovah sort 'em out." - The Holy Bible
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Old 08-13-2012, 12:36   #240
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Not so fast, we are still waiting on the unnatural carnal copulation definition.

UCMJ article 125 leaves it open for interpretation it seems. So basically almost everyone in the military is guilty to begin with, and subject to punishment whenever they see fit.

Anyways, it's all or nothing gay bashers. Come on.
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