GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-26-2012, 23:21   #1
427
 
427's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: KUMSC
Posts: 7,000
Speaking of Religious Accommodation: does religious freedom trump security?

American Taliban seeks group prayer in Ind. prison
http://news.yahoo.com/american-talib...171224890.html
__________________
Death twitches my ear. "Live," he says, "I am coming."
Virgil, Minor Poems

Enjoy yourself. It's later than you think.
427 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2012, 00:35   #2
Blast
'nuff said
 
Blast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: NKY/Cincinnati area
Posts: 19,609


No. Regardless of religious affiliation.
__________________
A man should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be - Albert Einstein
Blast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2012, 00:43   #3
High-Gear
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Kansas
Posts: 739
First when I read "American Taliban" I thought you were referring to Snowbird.



I'll be interested to see people's responses.

Will the religious on this forum who would usually follow the saying "Those who would sacrifice liberty for security, deserve neither." bend when it pertains to muslims being the ones losing their liberty? Do they only care when it is their rights being taken away?

Or

Will they stand up for fellow followers of faith? Does the 1A apply to everyone?
__________________
Ĉu vi parolas Esperanton?

Last edited by High-Gear; 08-27-2012 at 00:45..
High-Gear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2012, 04:03   #4
NMG26
Senior Member
 
NMG26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NM
Posts: 4,771
Quote:
Originally Posted by 427 View Post
American Taliban seeks group prayer in Ind. prison
http://news.yahoo.com/american-talib...171224890.html

They were free at one time. Now they are not.

The prison system is in charge of how much of anything they get. That includes religion.

Jail has got to suck or we would all go.


.
__________________
Bickford Schmeckler: ******* tyranny of logic!
http://tentmaker.org

Last edited by NMG26; 08-27-2012 at 04:04..
NMG26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2012, 04:51   #5
Bren
NRA Life Member
 
Bren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 33,383
The prison has to show a legitimate reason for not allowing it, if it's part of his religion. Security is a legitimate reason. The weakness is that they have to get a judge to agree with them and the judge may turn out to be anything from a soldier who has served in combat to the typical limpwristed, suburban, minivan-driving POS who goes from high school to college to law school with no life experience (a liberal/Democrat, I believe they are called).
__________________
Open carry activists are to gun rights what the Westboro Baptist Church is to free speech.

Last edited by Bren; 08-27-2012 at 15:07..
Bren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2012, 14:53   #6
snowbird
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: land of the free
Posts: 3,573
Quote:
Originally Posted by High-Gear View Post
First when I read "American Taliban" I thought you were referring to Snowbird.
What you're hinting at obliquely is, you support John Walker Lindh, an American traitor who was caught red-handed fighting with an enemy unit AGAINST American soldiers.

He was fighting to take away our rights. He was trying to kill US troops. That's called treason.

If an American traitor had been caught fighting on the side of the Nazis, there wouldn't have been any debate about giving him all kinds of 'rights' in prison, as if it's like a burger joint where you 'can have it your way'. He would have been tried and executed. That's what should have happened to this traitor, but today our society has rotted from within by leftists and too many people's lack of will to do what's right.

God save America.
__________________
"Speak softly and carry a big stick"
-T. Roosevelt, President 1901-09, US soldier, martial artist, hiker, agriculteral worker, and conservationist, among other things.
snowbird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2012, 15:12   #7
Bren
NRA Life Member
 
Bren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 33,383
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowbird View Post
What you're hinting at obliquely is, you support John Walker Lindh, an American traitor who was caught red-handed fighting with an enemy unit AGAINST American soldiers.

He was fighting to take away our rights. He was trying to kill US troops. That's called treason.

If an American traitor had been caught fighting on the side of the Nazis, there wouldn't have been any debate about giving him all kinds of 'rights' in prison, as if it's like a burger joint where you 'can have it your way'. He would have been tried and executed. That's what should have happened to this traitor, but today our society has rotted from within by leftists and too many people's lack of will to do what's right.

God save America.
Actually, let's say the person is a military officer, who defected to the Nazis and joined the SS, by flying to Italy in a stolen U.S. aircraft, and after the war surrended to the U.S. still in his SS uniform.

He'd get 25 years and get parolled in half of that. He'd be named Martin James Monti.
__________________
Open carry activists are to gun rights what the Westboro Baptist Church is to free speech.

Last edited by Bren; 08-27-2012 at 15:13..
Bren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2012, 15:55   #8
snowbird
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: land of the free
Posts: 3,573
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bren View Post
Actually, let's say the person is a military officer, who defected to the Nazis and joined the SS, by flying to Italy in a stolen U.S. aircraft, and after the war surrended to the U.S. still in his SS uniform.

He'd get 25 years and get parolled in half of that. He'd be named Martin James Monti.
I never heard of the guy, thanks for bringing him to my attention. Our security was pretty lax to let him get away with all of that (but we still have lousy security. Nobody in authority, except one brave Arizona sheriff, has checked out our commander-in-chief's shady past. He found Hussein's birth certificate, as posted online, to be phony. Our borders seem pretty much open too).

It's said Monti's IQ was over 130. But defecting to the Nazis in late 1944 doesn't seem very brilliant, never mind the immorality of it. Smart people don't have to be decent, and they don't have to have common sense either, it seems.

Again, God save America.
__________________
"Speak softly and carry a big stick"
-T. Roosevelt, President 1901-09, US soldier, martial artist, hiker, agriculteral worker, and conservationist, among other things.
snowbird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2012, 22:23   #9
Animal Mother
Not Enough Gun
 
Animal Mother's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 14,818
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowbird View Post
I never heard of the guy, thanks for bringing him to my attention. Our security was pretty lax to let him get away with all of that (but we still have lousy security. Nobody in authority, except one brave Arizona sheriff, has checked out our commander-in-chief's shady past. He found Hussein's birth certificate, as posted online, to be phony. Our borders seem pretty much open too).
The fact that you revere a man who can't be bothered to do the job he was elected to instead of grasping at any bit of attention he can find says a lot about your character.
Quote:
It's said Monti's IQ was over 130. But defecting to the Nazis in late 1944 doesn't seem very brilliant, never mind the immorality of it. Smart people don't have to be decent, and they don't have to have common sense either, it seems.
Are you actually acknowledging you were wrong?
Quote:
Again, God save America.
You say this, then advocate discarding every fundamental ideal of the United States. Clearly, you have discovered that IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH.
__________________
"Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair. Or beatin's. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you've got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back."
Animal Mother is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2012, 06:45   #10
High-Gear
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Kansas
Posts: 739
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowbird View Post
What you're hinting at obliquely is, you support John Walker Lindh, an American traitor who was caught red-handed fighting with an enemy unit AGAINST American soldiers.

He was fighting to take away our rights. He was trying to kill US troops. That's called treason.

If an American traitor had been caught fighting on the side of the Nazis, there wouldn't have been any debate about giving him all kinds of 'rights' in prison, as if it's like a burger joint where you 'can have it your way'. He would have been tried and executed. That's what should have happened to this traitor, but today our society has rotted from within by leftists and too many people's lack of will to do what's right.

God save America.
No, what I was blatently saying is YOU are representative of the same extreme fundamentalist ideology as the Taliban, just with a different god.

Why do you work so hard to try to paint me as being a supporter of Islam. If I disagree with you, I'm a supporter of Jihad. Guess what? You sir are not representative of the spirit of America. You represent what this country was founded against. You represent Religious Fanatic Tyrany.
__________________
Ĉu vi parolas Esperanton?
High-Gear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2012, 06:49   #11
snowbird
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: land of the free
Posts: 3,573
Quote:
Originally Posted by Animal Mother View Post
You ... advocate discarding every fundamental ideal of the United States.
Says the toady for Islam.

Newsflash: our Constitution does not require that we allow unlimited Muslim immigration, with its predictable result of liberty-ending sharia tyranny, as a "fundamental ideal".
__________________
"Speak softly and carry a big stick"
-T. Roosevelt, President 1901-09, US soldier, martial artist, hiker, agriculteral worker, and conservationist, among other things.
snowbird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2012, 06:55   #12
dbcooper
Senior Member
 
dbcooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,138
Quote:
Originally Posted by NMG26 View Post
They were free at one time. Now they are not.

The prison system is in charge of how much of anything they get. That includes religion.

Jail has got to suck or we would all go.


.
This.

It's not like they can't pray, they just can't do it as a group.

Part of being caught is losing certian rights, and the right to assemble is the first to go, hence the cells
__________________
A broad brush paints a lousy picture, lacking the nuance and details of life's realities. As a young man my paints were black and white, with age came a palette holding many shades of gray.
dbcooper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2012, 08:01   #13
snowbird
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: land of the free
Posts: 3,573
Quote:
Originally Posted by High-Gear View Post
YOU are representative of the same extreme fundamentalist ideology as the Taliban, just with a different god.

Why do you work so hard to try to paint me as being a supporter of Islam.
You are parroting the false "moral equivalency" argument, which claims that "Christianity is just as bad as Islam". As of today, Islam has launched 19,508 deadly terror attacks just since 9/11, while in the same time frame, Christianity has launched zero. Saying Christianity is a terrorist political cult just as Islam is, is a lie. No matter how many times you call an apple an orange, it's still an apple.

The truth is, Christianity gave the world a Neil Armstrong who rode a rocket to the moon and back. Islam is still giving the world rocket attacks on civilians. Professor of Political Science at Port Said University, Gamal Zahran, says, "By next year, Allah willing, Israel will be annihilated".

Making false moral equivalency arguments helps enable (supports) Islamosupremacism, which is waging jihad warfare against us. This is not rocket science. If you don't want to be "painted as a supporter of Islam", then stop supporting Islam.
__________________
"Speak softly and carry a big stick"
-T. Roosevelt, President 1901-09, US soldier, martial artist, hiker, agriculteral worker, and conservationist, among other things.
snowbird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2012, 10:15   #14
Animal Mother
Not Enough Gun
 
Animal Mother's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 14,818
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowbird View Post
Says the toady for Islam.
Says the consistently dishonest participant in the discussion.
Quote:
Newsflash: our Constitution does not require that we allow unlimited Muslim immigration, with its predictable result of liberty-ending sharia tyranny, as a "fundamental ideal".
Newsflash: No one is claiming the Constitution requires unlimited Muslim immigration.
__________________
"Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair. Or beatin's. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you've got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back."
Animal Mother is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2012, 13:34   #15
snowbird
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: land of the free
Posts: 3,573
Quote:
Originally Posted by Animal Mother View Post
Says the consistently dishonest participant in the discussion.

Newsflash: No one is claiming the Constitution requires unlimited Muslim immigration.
For a non-Muslim, you sure do a lot of takiyya. Oh, I forgot; lefties are licensed to lie as well.

While you've been busy slandering counterjihadists, your peaceful Muslims have increased their total number of deadly attacks, just since 9/11, to 19,512.

Proud of your dhimmitude now?

You sound like Islamosupremacist Turkey. A Turkish parliamentarian has now accused the French government of 'hate speech' for mentioning the Armenian Genocide in textbooks. Just like Animal Mother calling Snowbird a "hater" for mentioning the Armenian Genocide, in which Muslims murdered 1.5 million innocent Christian men, women, and children.

Guess what; our Constitution doesn't endorse events such as the Armenian Genocide under the First Amendment's freedom of religion clause, no matter what you may think. And since you claim that I "advocate discarding every fundamental ideal of the U.S.", how about you list a half dozen or so of said ideals that you think I want to discard?

Thanks in advance.
__________________
"Speak softly and carry a big stick"
-T. Roosevelt, President 1901-09, US soldier, martial artist, hiker, agriculteral worker, and conservationist, among other things.
snowbird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2012, 13:54   #16
Roering
Sorting nuts
 
Roering's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,425
Quote:
Originally Posted by 427 View Post
American Taliban seeks group prayer in Ind. prison
http://news.yahoo.com/american-talib...171224890.html
As far as I'm concerned that scumbag gave up his rights when he aided the Taliban in their efforts to fight us.
__________________
=================================
Warranty voiding
Roering is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2012, 13:59   #17
Altaris
Senior Member
 
Altaris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Round Rock, TX
Posts: 11,185
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowbird View Post

The truth is, Christianity gave the world a Neil Armstrong who rode a rocket to the moon and back. Islam is still giving the world rocket attacks on civilians. Professor of Political Science at Port Said University, Gamal Zahran, says, "By next year, Allah willing, Israel will be annihilated".
Science gave the world heroes like Neil Armstrong and the ability for us to travel into space, not Christianity. Science is able to accomplish great feats in spite of religion, not because of it.

If Christian fundamentalists were left unchecked they would be covering up the women, punishing people with their morality police, and would be dragging us back to the caves, just like Islam.
__________________
To Alcohol !
The cause of, and solution to, all of lifes problems
-Homer Simpson-
Altaris is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2012, 15:00   #18
High-Gear
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Kansas
Posts: 739
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowbird View Post
You are parroting the false "moral equivalency" argument, which claims that "Christianity is just as bad as Islam". As of today, Islam has launched 19,508 deadly terror attacks just since 9/11, while in the same time frame, Christianity has launched zero. Saying Christianity is a terrorist political cult just as Islam is, is a lie. No matter how many times you call an apple an orange, it's still an apple.

The truth is, Christianity gave the world a Neil Armstrong who rode a rocket to the moon and back. Islam is still giving the world rocket attacks on civilians. Professor of Political Science at Port Said University, Gamal Zahran, says, "By next year, Allah willing, Israel will be annihilated".

Making false moral equivalency arguments helps enable (supports) Islamosupremacism, which is waging jihad warfare against us. This is not rocket science. If you don't want to be "painted as a supporter of Islam", then stop supporting Islam.
I said you are a fanatic. Again just because I don't agree with you does not mean I support islam. I just don't want to live in Snowbirdistan.
__________________
Ĉu vi parolas Esperanton?
High-Gear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2012, 17:29   #19
Roering
Sorting nuts
 
Roering's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,425
Quote:
Originally Posted by Altaris View Post
Science gave the world heroes like Neil Armstrong
Who was a practicing Lutheran.
__________________
=================================
Warranty voiding
Roering is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2012, 18:00   #20
Gunhaver
the wrong hands
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,736
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by High-Gear View Post
I just don't want to live in Snowbirdistan.
Gunhaver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2012, 18:17   #21
Gunhaver
the wrong hands
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,736
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roering View Post
Who was a practicing Lutheran.
Gee, what are the odds that a person willing to climb on top of a Saturn V rocket and ask them to light it up in the year 1969 would maybe be a person of faith?

Did Neil do it all on his own? I wonder just how good of a rocket scientist Neil Armstrong was. I'm pretty sure that the process of getting someone to the moon and back with slide rulers could be considered a greater accomplishment than simply stepping of the ladder and saying a few memorable words.

But you raise a good point. Do we give the credit for every great scientific discovery to the religion of the person that made said discovery? If so I'm positive that the "religion" of atheism is way out in front by now.

Be ready to get your scroll on... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...and_technology
Gunhaver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2012, 18:19   #22
Vic Hays
Senior Member
 
Vic Hays's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: My home is in heaven
Posts: 10,646
Quote:
Originally Posted by Altaris View Post

If Christian fundamentalists were left unchecked they would be covering up the women, punishing people with their morality police, and would be dragging us back to the caves, just like Islam.
Maybe I can educate you a little here on some nuances of religion.

Islam is both religion and government rolled up into one and intends to rule the world.

Some christianity is also in favor of controlling politics and ruling the world.

Jesus second temptation by satan was politics and ruling the world:

Luke 4:5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, showed to him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
4:6 And the devil said to him, All this power will I give you, and the glory of them: for that is delivered to me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.
4:7 If you therefore will worship me, all shall be yours.

So you can see that religions that are in to ruling over men are fallen for the power trip and are working against God.

This church is seen as being unfaithful to God and controling the nations.

The apostate churches also shed the blood of true Christians. She is sitting on the beast that represents the kingdoms of this world.

Revelation 17:6 I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. When I saw her, I wondered with great amazement.
17:7 The angel said to me, “Why do you wonder? I will tell you the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
__________________
Vic Hays

John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Vic Hays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2012, 19:03   #23
NMG26
Senior Member
 
NMG26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NM
Posts: 4,771
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic Hays View Post
This church is seen as being unfaithful to God and controling the nations.

The apostate churches also shed the blood of true Christians. She is sitting on the beast that represents the kingdoms of this world.

Revelation 17:6 I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints
I am starting to understand SDA theology. It is all about the end times. The end of the world is coming. God's apocalypse.

Stop drinking that cool aid.

God is not going to step in and bring your interpretation of Revelation to pass. If you don't have faith in the world that is, you can do little to make it a better place. A theology that's main focus is on the end, has lost faith in the world that is.

Thomas Jefferson on Revelation:
Quote:
It is between fifty and sixty years since I read it and I then considered it as merely the ravings of a maniac no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams.
__________________
Bickford Schmeckler: ******* tyranny of logic!
http://tentmaker.org
NMG26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2012, 19:49   #24
Kingarthurhk
Isaiah 53:4-9
 
Kingarthurhk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,575
Quote:
Originally Posted by NMG26 View Post
I am starting to understand SDA theology. It is all about the end times. The end of the world is coming. God's apocalypse.

Stop drinking that cool aid.

God is not going to step in and bring your interpretation of Revelation to pass. If you don't have faith in the world that is, you can do little to make it a better place. A theology that's main focus is on the end, has lost faith in the world that is.

Thomas Jefferson on Revelation:
[/B]
I would rather drink that cool aid than live in deception and attempt to deceive others. What you are saying is not from God.
__________________
Glock 17, 19, 20SF, 21C, 22, 26, 27, Glock E-Tool, Glock knife
Quod ego haereticus appellari sequere Jesum.
Kingarthurhk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2012, 20:09   #25
NMG26
Senior Member
 
NMG26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NM
Posts: 4,771
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk View Post
I would rather drink that cool aid than live in deception and attempt to deceive others. What you are saying is not from God.
I know Art,

You would rather bring other into the great deception, because you believe from your heart that it is true. It is a teaching based in fear. Many fear that maybe, just maybe, this radical interpretation of Revelation is true, so they put their faith in God. Where is the love Art?



.
__________________
Bickford Schmeckler: ******* tyranny of logic!
http://tentmaker.org

Last edited by NMG26; 08-28-2012 at 20:09..
NMG26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 20:07.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,589
510 Members
1,079 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42