What constitutes valid religious beliefs?

Gunhaver · 08-28-2012, 16:40

For instance, if I were a Muslim or a Jew that kept kosher and I went to prison they would have to provide me with special meals based on my religious beliefs. What if my religion said that I'm to partake of steak and lobster once a day and enjoy the company of a beautiful woman once a week? How do we decide what beliefs deserve accommodation and what beliefs don't?

It seems to me like a lot of us could be getting away with a lot more if we just jumped on the religion bandwagon. Gay people could make gay their religion and enjoy protection from being discriminated against for it. The whole DADT deal would have never needed to happen if the government was telling people that they couldn't join because they belonged to the religion of Gay. Anybody could open their own business and just call it their religion and no more taxes. The possibilities are endless.

fgutie35 · 08-28-2012, 16:59

I know what your are trying to do here, but for clarity sake, I will tell you that at my work place, they only respect prayer time. We have muslim instructors who require prayer time at 12 noon, so they are excuse from any duty at that time. Same goes for our. Catholic instructors who are allowed to come late or leave early on ash wednesday or any other day of obligation cause they have to go to mass. As far as diet acommodations and any other type of acomodations are non-existant. Then again that is at my work place. Every employer is different.

Kingarthurhk · 08-28-2012, 17:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunhaver

For instance, if I were a Muslim or a Jew that kept kosher and I went to prison they would have to provide me with special meals based on my religious beliefs. What if my religion said that I'm to partake of steak and lobster once a day and enjoy the company of a beautiful woman once a week? How do we decide what beliefs deserve accommodation and what beliefs don't?

It seems to me like a lot of us could be getting away with a lot more if we just jumped on the religion bandwagon. Gay people could make gay their religion and enjoy protection from being discriminated against for it. The whole DADT deal would have never needed to happen if the government was telling people that they couldn't join because they belonged to the religion of Gay. Anybody could open their own business and just call it their religion and no more taxes. The possibilities are endless.

As long as you can show you have an established religious belief, I don't see an issue. For instance, Atheists seem to be obsessed with speghetti and meatballs for some unknown reason.

Gunhaver · 08-28-2012, 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk

As long as you can show you have an established religious belief, I don't see an issue. For instance, Atheists seem to be obsessed with speghetti and meatballs for some unknown reason.

So it has to already be established? Is that because of the assumption that with many thousands of different religions out there one of them has to be right so we don't need any more?

Kingarthurhk · 08-28-2012, 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunhaver

So it has to already be established? Is that because of the assumption that with many thousands of different religions out there one of them has to be right so we don't need any more?

Of, which, Atheism is one. Though, it has an odd doctrine:

The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster - YouTube

***jtull7*** · 08-28-2012, 18:38

A cult is an unpopular religion, whereas a religion is a popular cult.

Altaris · 08-28-2012, 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtull7

A cult is an unpopular religion, whereas a religion is a popular cult.

Yup.

Con enough people, especially those with power, to follow you and you too can create your own religion!

NMG26 · 08-28-2012, 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtull7

A cult is an unpopular religion, whereas a religion is a popular cult.

Nice.

NMG26 · 08-28-2012, 19:21

It seems that if it is culturally accepted as valid, then it can be considered for religious exception.

.

Kingarthurhk · 08-28-2012, 19:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtull7

A cult is an unpopular religion, whereas a religion is a popular cult.

Actually, you are think occult, which simply means "Against Culture"; so, just going by the numbers no matter where you go Atheism is actually occult.

Syclone538 · 08-28-2012, 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk

Of, which, Atheism is one. ...

How so?

NMG26 · 08-28-2012, 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk

Actually, you are think occult, which simply means "Against Culture"; so, just going by the numbers no matter where you go Atheism is actually occult.

A cult is a group that worships together.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dictionary

a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies.

SDA is a cult more then Atheism will ever be. Unless this is another Atheism is a religion thread.

ksg0245 · 08-28-2012, 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk

Actually, you are think occult, which simply means "Against Culture"; so, just going by the numbers no matter where you go Atheism is actually occult.

Nope.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/occult
noun : matters regarded as involving the action or influence of supernatural or supernormal powers or some secret knowledge of them —used with the

adj : 1 : not revealed : secret
2 : not easily apprehended or understood : abstruse, mysterious
3 : hidden from view : concealed
4 : of or relating to the occult
5 : not manifest or detectable by clinical methods alone ; also : not present in macroscopic amounts

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cult
1 : formal religious veneration : worship
2 : a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents
3 : a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents
4 : a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator
5a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad
b : the object of such devotion
c : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion

NorthCarolinaLiberty · 08-31-2012, 23:57

The legal criteria used by the IRS is disputed by the International Coalition for Religious Freedom. Here is the IRS criteria. The link that follows is an article refuting the criteria.

a distinct legal existence,
a recognized creed and form of worship,
a definite and distinct ecclesiastical government,
a formal code of doctrine and discipline
a distinct religious history,
a membership not associated with any other church or denomination,
an organization of ordained ministers,
ordained ministers selected after completing prescribed studies,
a literature of its own,
established places of worship,
regular congregations,
regular religious services,
Sunday schools for religious instruction of the young,
school for the preparation of its ministers.

http://www.religiousfreedom.com/inde...431&Itemid=442

GreenDrake · 09-01-2012, 05:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syclone538

How so?

Let it go, Syclone, Art can't seem to grasp the concept and the horse has been dead a long long time.

Gunhaver · 09-01-2012, 12:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty

The legal criteria used by the IRS is disputed by the International Coalition for Religious Freedom. Here is the IRS criteria. The link that follows is an article refuting the criteria.

a distinct legal existence,
a recognized creed and form of worship,
a definite and distinct ecclesiastical government,
a formal code of doctrine and discipline
a distinct religious history,
a membership not associated with any other church or denomination,
an organization of ordained ministers,
ordained ministers selected after completing prescribed studies,
a literature of its own,
established places of worship,
regular congregations,
regular religious services,
Sunday schools for religious instruction of the young,
school for the preparation of its ministers.

http://www.religiousfreedom.com/inde...431&Itemid=442

Well that's quite a lot of hoops to jump through. Has the IRS not seen Webster's Dictionary?

steveksux · 09-02-2012, 07:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunhaver

Well that's quite a lot of hoops to jump through. Has the IRS not seen Webster's Dictionary?

There's a lot of Football fans paying taxes that don't need to, they're exempt!

Randy

John Rambo · 09-02-2012, 07:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk

Of, which, Atheism is one. Though, it has an odd doctrine:

Pastafarianism is not Atheism.

Kingarthurhk · 09-02-2012, 08:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by NMG26

A cult is a group that worships together.

SDA is a cult more then Atheism will ever be. Unless this is another Atheism is a religion thread.

[/COLOR]

Define it. Considering where you are comming from, I see a strong sense of irony.

**Cavalry Doc** · 09-02-2012, 09:10

When asking for equal or special treatment, lots of things have become religious beliefs, including atheism.

I had a medic once that was a rastafarian, and said he could not eat pork, so he got the special kosher MRE's, which are a nice change. That lasted till I caught him eating an egg and bacon biscuit on two occasions. Shared misery breeds comradery. Watching people get special treatment breeds friction.

Kingarthurhk · 09-02-2012, 09:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc

When asking for equal or special treatment, lots of things have become religious beliefs, including atheism.

I had a medic once that was a rastafarian, and said he could not eat pork, so he got the special kosher MRE's, which are a nice change. That lasted till I caught him eating an egg and bacon biscuit on two occasions. Shared misery breeds comradery. Watching people get special treatment breeds friction.

I have known rastafarians. The ones I have ran into say they were vegetarians. An interesting Jamaican mix of race meets religion, as the two for them are inexorably intertwined.

NMG26 · 09-02-2012, 10:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk

Define it. Considering where you are comming from, I see a strong sense of irony.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtull7

A cult is an unpopular religion, whereas a religion is a popular cult.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk

Actually, you are think occult, which simply means "Against Culture"; so, just going by the numbers no matter where you go Atheism is actually occult.

Lets not get lost here.

A cult is a group that worships together. It can be seen as good or bad depending on who is judging.

When I was in "The Way International" cult, we knew that main stream Christianity considered us a cult. deprogrammers actually kidnapped some that were involved in that cult.

That Jim Jones group was known as a cult. Heaven's Gate was known as a cult. All of these were a specific group that worshiped together. Same with SDA. Many in main stream Christianity consider SDA a Cult.
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False...ntist_cult.htm

The popular main stream Christainity defines who is a cult and who is not a cult.

jtull7's use of words was correct. That is what I was talking about when you corrected him as meaning occult. No, he meant "cult" and used the world well.