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Old 09-29-2012, 17:09   #201
MaxxAction
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Originally Posted by snowbird View Post
"Maniacal raving" -you mean stuff like, "Give me liberty or give me death" (Patrick Henry), the Bill of rights, including Freedom of Religion and Freedom of Speech, and "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms..."(Thomas Jefferson)? George Washington and I would disagree with you. But Islamic sharia law agrees with you -it demands no 'dhimmi' (one who feels himself subdued by Islam) has any right to own or bear arms.

Opposing tyranny and supporting the right of our children not to be raped by Mohammedans is "angry and paranoid"? That's not how John Quincy Adams saw it. He correctly noted that "the essence of (Mohammed's) doctrine was violence and lust". Back in his day, most Americans were willing to fight for freedom, so he could say, "While the merciless and dissolute dogmas of the false prophet shall furnish motives to human action, there can never be peace on earth..."

Newsflash: Muslims started threatening all non-Muslim families 14 centuries ago. Amelia Earhart is credited with saying, "Courage is the price Life exacts for granting peace". Given that we have so many courage-challenged dhimmis today, it's little wonder that Muslims are growing more belligerent. They smell blood in the water. I hope dhimmis grow enough spine in time.
Fine...

I'm with you. But I feel we are experiencing much more tyranny at the hands of our own government and the corporations that fund the buy out of their souls than we are likely to from Islam.

What is the Muslim population where you live? What about the whole nation? How many Muslims live in the united states?

Have you been attacked? Prosletyzed? Accosted or assaulted by a raving group of Muslims? How many muslim prtotesters have ever assembled and intimidated you or yours?

There isn't a Muslim country in the world that has a navy that couldn't be defeated by our coast guard with ease. Same goes for their air forces. So tell me please, where is the huge threat of tyranny you keep wailing about?

This whole thing, the way the media brings attention to it, keeps feeding the public these images of rabid Muslims jumping up and down calling for the blood of American infidels, and people swallow it hook line and sinker, and completely ignore the tyranny under your own roof, visited upon you by those who are supposed to be looking out for your best interests.
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Old 09-29-2012, 17:18   #202
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Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk View Post
I have seen a lot of hypothesis, but very few facts.
You must have a different definition for the concept of "facts" than scientists do, kind of like your differing definitions of evidence and macroevolution. Perhaps you'd like to tell us what a fact is to you.
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What can be known? Macro Evolution has never been proven.
This is simply false, and you've been offered the evidence in this area multiple times.
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There is no origin to the Big Bang.
Also incorrect. That the nature of the initial event is not yet known does not mean it does not exist.
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From my perspective nothing that you hold on to so dearly has ever been proven.
This is only because your perspective involves ignoring any evidence contrary to what you already believe.
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That they are unprovable and you hold to them with the dogma of a true zealot?
What scientific concepts are unprovable? Could you provide some evidence in support of this claim?
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And yours are like jello, always wanting the same thing to be true, and when it is shown to be absurd, you come up with another hypothesis to justify the claim.
You mean views like claiming there must have been kangaroos in the Middle East or that koalas spread by stowing away on ships?
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Ironic. I find that to be true of Macro Evolution and the Big Bang. No one has an adequae explanation for the biogenesis of the Cambrian level, or the origin of the Big Bang, yet these beliefs are persistantly belocosely declared as "fact".
it's odd that you come to this conclusion, given your demonstrated unwillingness to actually investigate in either area. Perhaps it is true that ignorance is bliss.
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Old 09-29-2012, 17:23   #203
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There is a geological record of the flood.
No, there isn't. The rest of your post is just one very long version of a No True Scotsman argument coupled with again reasoning from a position of assuming your conclusion is true an initial condition.
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Old 09-29-2012, 17:31   #204
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You must have a different definition for the concept of "facts" than scientists do, kind of like your differing definitions of evidence and macroevolution. Perhaps you'd like to tell us what a fact is to you.
A fact is something observable, testable and repeatable. MacroEvolution is none of these things.

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This is simply false, and you've been offered the evidence in this area multiple times.
As have you. You ignore it, however, as it does not fit into the matrix of your view of reality.

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Also incorrect. That the nature of the initial event is not yet known does not mean it does not exist.
And by scientific principal it is merely a hypothesis and not a fact. In other words, it something an Atheist came up with to try to put forward their Atheistic belief without any evidnece other than a desire for it to be true. Then, foisted it upon everyone by pretending it is factual, when it is pretty absurd.

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This is only because your perspective involves ignoring any evidence contrary to what you already believe.
That pretty much sums up the Atheist perspective. If it challenges a cherished concept it is simply ridiculed or ignored. Further, anyone brave enough in the scientific community who goes against the dogma is marginalized and disinfranchised. So much for true intellectual honesty.

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What scientific concepts are unprovable? Could you provide some evidence in support of this claim?
I have many times before, you have selective amnesia.

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You mean views like claiming there must have been kangaroos in the Middle East or that koalas spread by stowing away on ships?
Yeah, ancient peoples never transported non-native animals before? Apparently, a little thing called the Roman Empire must be excised from history to keep things acceptable for you? Then there is the minor detail of Leaf Erickson making it all the way to the North American continent when it should have been impossible. It is not outside the realm of reasonable thought to think that this possible. But, since it doesn't fit into your world view, it should just simply be rejected out of hand. What could simple Romans, Vikings and others actually do, right?

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it's odd that you come to this conclusion, given your demonstrated unwillingness to actually investigate in either area. Perhaps it is true that ignorance is bliss.
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Old 09-29-2012, 17:45   #205
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Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
I take this to mean you believe in God because your life is so great?

So what about someone's life that is proportionately as bad? Someone born with disfigurements, with disabilities that make even the simplest task like eating or going to the bathroom something which requires the assistance of someone else? A life that is so hard and so without joy that death is often preferable? Where's God at then? Why does he favor you more than they? Did you do the right dance? Say the right words? Sing the right songs? Was it something your parents did to honor him and gain his favor? If this is true... I hate your God for what he allows to happen to others. Your God should be destroyed for his cruelty.
Why do you assume that my life must be smooth and free from troubles for it to be good? My life is good because I see wonders everywhere. And in those wonders I see the hand of God.

Look at a woman, or a cat, or a child. Imagine all of the complex development and the interactions on the chemical and biological level necessary for their existence. One thing off and life doesn't happen. Watch the movement and think of all that goes into that simple action. You really think that is all just luck? What about intelligence? What about love? What about the rationality of thought that you are so proud of. Just luck? Just an accidental development of neurons and chemicals and cells?

God is a certainty of statistics, my friend.

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Old 09-29-2012, 17:48   #206
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Originally Posted by Animal Mother View Post
No, there isn't. The rest of your post is just one very long version of a No True Scotsman argument coupled with again reasoning from a position of assuming your conclusion is true an initial condition.
On the contrary, we sea fossils and land fossils smashed together in a fast fossilization process that can only occur with a cataclysmic event.
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Old 09-29-2012, 17:52   #207
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I'm defending the First Amendment. Meanwhile some Muslims killed some people. So did some Christians.
You'll have to pardon my skepticism regarding your enthusiasm for the First Amendment for conservatives and Christians. I doubt you'd care a 'fish' for that.

I hear a lot of leftist dhimmis these days joining the Islamist campaign to criminalize "hate speech" and "Islamophobia". In other words, they want to abolish the First Amendment in favor of sharia which allows NO criticism of Islam.

"Some Muslims killed some people"? Try, today's total of deadly Muslim attacks just since 9/11 has now skyrocketed up to 19,680. We're talking the kind of attacks where they go, "Allahu akbar!" They're murdering infidels for Allah, in emulation of Mohammed, and in accordance with the Koran, to get their supposed 72 virgins in Allah's brothel.

I suppose equivalent Christian terror attackers would say something like, "In the Name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost!" Never heard of any such attacks? Neither have I. That's because they're nonexistent. Maybe some Italian Cosa Nostra assassin or Mexican drug cartel thug goes to mass on Sunday and murders some innocent person on Monday, but he does that for his crime syndicate, and mercenary money issues, not for the glory of Jesus. Jesus condemns murder. There's all the difference in the world between Islam and Christianity.
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Old 09-29-2012, 18:02   #208
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Originally Posted by snowbird View Post
You'll have to pardon my skepticism regarding your enthusiasm for the First Amendment for conservatives and Christians. I doubt you'd care a 'fish' for that.

I hear a lot of leftist dhimmis these days joining the Islamist campaign to criminalize "hate speech" and "Islamophobia". In other words, they want to abolish the First Amendment in favor of sharia which allows NO criticism of Islam.

"Some Muslims killed some people"? Try, today's total of deadly Muslim attacks just since 9/11 has now skyrocketed up to 19,680. We're talking the kind of attacks where they go, "Allahu akbar!" They're murdering infidels for Allah, in emulation of Mohammed, and in accordance with the Koran, to get their supposed 72 virgins in Allah's brothel.

I suppose equivalent Christian terror attackers would say something like, "In the Name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost!" Never heard of any such attacks? Neither have I. That's because they're nonexistent. Maybe some Italian Cosa Nostra assassin or Mexican drug cartel thug goes to mass on Sunday and murders some innocent person on Monday, but he does that for his crime syndicate, and mercenary money issues, not for the glory of Jesus. Jesus condemns murder. There's all the difference in the world between Islam and Christianity.
Read Foxe's Book of Martyrs. I lend credibility to people who oppose all forms of religious violence both past and present.
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Old 09-29-2012, 18:02   #209
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Originally Posted by onebigelf View Post
Why do you assume that my life must be smooth and free from troubles for it to be good? My life is good because I see wonders everywhere. And in those wonders I see the hand of God.

Look at a woman, or a cat, or a child. Imagine all of the complex development and the interactions on the chemical and biological level necessary for their existence. One thing off and life doesn't happen. Watch the movement and think of all that goes into that simple action. You really think that is all just luck? What about intelligence? What about love? What about the rationality of thought that you are so proud of. Just luck? Just an accidental development of neurons and chemicals and cells?
Your argument from incredulity is not compelling in the least. That you can't believe it happened without divine intervention hardly qualifies as evidence.

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God is a certainty of statistics, my friend.

John
Statistics will also show you that I have woken up 100% of the days I've been alive. Doesn't mean that trend will continue, does it?
Show us the MATH that concludes god exists.
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Old 09-29-2012, 18:12   #210
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Fine...I'm with you.

How many muslim prtotesters have ever assembled and intimidated you or yours?

There isn't a Muslim country in the world that has a navy that couldn't be defeated by our coast guard with ease. Same goes for their air forces. So tell me please, where is the huge threat of tyranny...?

... the way the media brings attention to it...
Glad to hear you say you're with the counterjihad.

Muslims and their lefty supporters have protested outside government buildings in a city near me. They intend to intimidate.

Remember who is the Commander-In-Chief of our Navy, Marines, Coast Guard, Army, Air Force, TSA, ATF, Homeland Security, etc...a Muslim. Do you really think he'd use force against Muslims attacking American white heterosexual Christians? Do you think he'll do anything to stop or slow down Muslim immigration? Do you think he'll stop placing Muslims in high offices in our land? Do you really think he's on our side?

The MainStream Media often do not bring attention to Muslim attacks. They tend to bury such stories or play them down. Thus Fort Hood wasn't a Muslim attack, it was 'workplace violence'. MSM steadfastly refuses to investigate Obama's secretive past, his phony birth certificate, his apparently fraudulent Social Security number, his connections with the Muslim Brotherhood, etc. MSM is not on our side either.
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Old 09-29-2012, 18:40   #211
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Read Foxe's Book of Martyrs. I lend credibility to people who oppose all forms of religious violence both past and present.
Interesting book that I'd never heard of. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. I'm glad I didn't live in the 16th century or
other times and places of internecine wars between folks who Jesus said were especially supposed to love one another.

Present religious violence is one-way, AFAIK: Muslims attacking non-Muslims. Only sometimes is there a self-defensive counterattack against the Muslims, it appears so far.
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Old 09-29-2012, 19:13   #212
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Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk View Post
A fact is something observable, testable and repeatable. MacroEvolution is none of these things.
Except that it has been observed, can be tested, and should you have the skills and time can be repeated. So there's one claim you've made that's false.
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As have you. You ignore it, however, as it does not fit into the matrix of your view of reality.
You haven't offered any evidence. You've posted videos that make unsubstantiated claims and when the errors in those claims are pointed out, as in the case of the impossibility of a survivable global flood or a wooden boat the size of the supposed ark, you simply abandon the discussion only to make the exact same claims later. That's another of your false claim.
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And by scientific principal it is merely a hypothesis and not a fact. In other words, it something an Atheist came up with to try to put forward their Atheistic belief without any evidnece other than a desire for it to be true. Then, foisted it upon everyone by pretending it is factual, when it is pretty absurd.
Your "in other words" has no actual relation to the previous sentence. We can, and have, track the activity of cosmic expansion back to a time 10^-44 seconds after the initial event. That's evidence. As I've said many times before, if you wish to insert God into that 10^-44 second period I won't object. Not because I think it's right, but because I don't have any contrary evidence, yet. Unfortunately, that isn't what you're trying to do at all, is it?
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That pretty much sums up the Atheist perspective. If it challenges a cherished concept it is simply ridiculed or ignored. Further, anyone brave enough in the scientific community who goes against the dogma is marginalized and disinfranchised. So much for true intellectual honesty.
"I know you are but what am I"? Pulling out the old playground standbys already? Do you mean the way Einstein was ridiculed when he challenged Newtonian dynamics? Or are you talking about the way Schroedinger was ridiculed for his theories about quantum mechanics? No, wait, they were both awarded Nobel Prizes. Perhaps you could offer some specific examples to back this claim, just for varieties sake if nothing else.
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I have many times before, you have selective amnesia.
Then it should be a simple matter for you to link to the specific posts and demonstrate my memory failures. Please do so, I'm eager to correct my errors.
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Yeah, ancient peoples never transported non-native animals before?]
Of course they did, but that's not what we're talking about. If you are going to claim that kangaroos and koalas were transported from Australia to somewhere else, then survived a flood and returned to Australia, while settling no where else on the planet, all you need do is present some evidence that it actually happened. Are you going to be doing that or will you abandon this discussion as you have in the past?
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Apparently, a little thing called the Roman Empire must be excised from history to keep things acceptable for you? Then there is the minor detail of Leaf Erickson making it all the way to the North American continent when it should have been impossible. It is not outside the realm of reasonable thought to think that this possible. But, since it doesn't fit into your world view, it should just simply be rejected out of hand. What could simple Romans, Vikings and others actually do, right?
Are you claiming that Vikings and Romans carried the kangaroos and koalas back to Australia? Interesting hypothesis. Do you have any supporting evidence?

No, you don't. You've decided that there must have been a Flood, despite there being no evidence. This means the kangaroos and koalas must have moved from Australia (where there is ancient evidence of their existence) to the Middle East (where there is no such evidence) to board the ark. Then once the Flood was over they must have been transported from wherever the ark landed back to Australia, while leaving no evidence back along the way.

Who is it that's rejecting any contrary evidence again?
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When you pointe one finger, three point back at yourself.
You've been offered ample opportunity to point out the errors of science and the truth of your claims. Why don't you simply do so for a change, rather than abandoning the discussion?
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Old 09-29-2012, 19:16   #213
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When was the last the American Nazi party or the American Communist party nominated a presidential candidate? Any idea why? No, I'm not defending Nazis or Communists. I'm defending their right to assemble and speak. I'm defending the First Amendment. Meanwhile some Muslims killed some people. So did some Christians.
I'd defend their right to spew their hateful nonsense as well (and took an oath to that effect), but I would hope that the reason neither movement has put forth a candidate in this country is that neither group has been able to meet the qualifications for running in the general election. Truly, interested in the real answer if you know it?
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Old 09-29-2012, 19:17   #214
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On the contrary, we sea fossils and land fossils smashed together in a fast fossilization process that can only occur with a cataclysmic event.
You don't say. You mean there are natural disasters that have taken place around the world and throughout history? No one is denying those things happen. On the other hand, there is no evidence of a worldwide cataclysm annihilating all life on Earth, and certainly not one within the relative short history of man's time on this planet.

You site fossils "smashed together in a fast fossilization process that can only occur with a cataclysmic event." Why don't you provide specific examples and we can discuss their implications for both our understandings of the planetary past.
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Old 09-29-2012, 19:34   #215
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Glad to hear you say you're with the counterjihad.

Muslims and their lefty supporters have protested outside government buildings in a city near me. They intend to intimidate.

Remember who is the Commander-In-Chief of our Navy, Marines, Coast Guard, Army, Air Force, TSA, ATF, Homeland Security, etc...a Muslim. Do you really think he'd use force against Muslims attacking American white heterosexual Christians? Do you think he'll do anything to stop or slow down Muslim immigration? Do you think he'll stop placing Muslims in high offices in our land? Do you really think he's on our side?

The MainStream Media often do not bring attention to Muslim attacks. They tend to bury such stories or play them down. Thus Fort Hood wasn't a Muslim attack, it was 'workplace violence'. MSM steadfastly refuses to investigate Obama's secretive past, his phony birth certificate, his apparently fraudulent Social Security number, his connections with the Muslim Brotherhood, etc. MSM is not on our side either.
Ok...

Say you are right about all of it. Have you ever thought that maybe the greater percentage of Muslims feel like victims of the same behaviors you are talking about? If that is the case, Does saying all Muslims want us dead do any good? Do you really believe thy all Muslims want to kill everyone that doesn't adhere to their religion? Have you ever stopped to consider that the average man on the Muslim street doesn't give a **** about the fanatics and their designs on ruling the world and couldn't care if you worship a rock or almighty God?



Btw what protest was that in the city near you?
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Old 09-29-2012, 19:52   #216
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Interesting book that I'd never heard of.
You can't be serious. I have my grandfathers copy that is older than you. You don't know enough to know what you don't know. Did you know that Vlad the Impaler, a.k.a. Dracula, was a Christian?
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Old 09-29-2012, 20:04   #217
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I'd defend their right to spew their hateful nonsense as well (and took an oath to that effect), but I would hope that the reason neither movement has put forth a candidate in this country is that neither group has been able to meet the qualifications for running in the general election. Truly, interested in the real answer if you know it?
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Old 09-29-2012, 20:09   #218
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Ah, yes. I should have remembered. It was a bit before my time though.
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Old 09-29-2012, 20:10   #219
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Do you really believe thy all Muslims want to kill everyone that doesn't adhere to their religion?
No, and I never said that.

But far too many of them do. Their Koran says that's supposed to be their attitude. Their Koran says any Muslim who fails to do his jihad duty is an apostate. Guess what the penalty is for that, if some hardliner chooses to enforce it?

Question: how do you tell the peaceful ones from the Koranic ones? I mean, before it's too late? Since we can't read minds, it would be safer for us and our children to stop ALL Muslim immigration for the duration of Islam's jihad against us. It's not as if we need Muslims here: we don't. We can get along just fine without them, and forgo future Fort Hoods, or worse.
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Old 09-30-2012, 07:28   #220
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Tell it to the Branch Davidians. Freedom of speech? When was the last the American Nazi party or the American Communist party nominated a presidential candidate? Any idea why? No, I'm not defending Nazis or Communists. I'm defending their right to assemble and speak. I'm defending the First Amendment. Meanwhile some Muslims killed some people. So did some Christians.
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