Romney won the debate - but - Page 17

**Jerry** · 10-12-2012, 12:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by douggmc

Riiiiiigght. You deleted what was there not because it was irrelevant, but because it made you look like a nincompoop.

Are you really that far out in Lala land? Oh what am I thinking, I almost forgot what I was talking to. I deleted it from my post because as I said it is/was irrelevant to the subject being argued. Read this very slow and you just might comprehend it. I deleted it in my post it is still in the post that you made that I replied to. It is still there for anyone to read.

As typical, when dealing with liberals, when your original argument is shown to be BS you try to cloud the issue by bringing things into the argument that has nothing to do with the original subject.

You asked for an EXAMPLE. I gave it. You asked for and EXPLANATION. I gave it. Now your looking for a pissingmatch.

Obomacare is an evil socialistic liberal progressive welfare generating scam. I'll ask you AGAIN. Do you know what all is in it? Do those that can't pay get a free ride? Yes? Do illegals get a free ride? Yes! Is the government getting into the medical treatment distribution business? Yes! And it goes on and on. Who is being FORCED to pay? Only the working class schmuck. And what will he get for his buck? Take a look at Canada and Grate Britten. Higher costs less and inferior treatment. Only an idiot would want to opt-into a system that is already being use elsewhere and failing.

**Jerry** · 10-12-2012, 12:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by certifiedfunds

1. You have a contract with the bank.
2. Your SS money isn't being used, its gone.
3. In order to pay your benefit, that money must be seized from someone else.

#3 is the key

1. I could have sworn that when old Teddy implemented SS he call it "A Contract Whit America".
2. Ever watch the movie It's a Wonderful Life? You need to hear where Jimmy Stuart explains about where the bank's/Credit Union's money is. Sounds a lot like you're # 2. I really don't think banks and credit unions are welfare systems. Are they?
3. So I'm to understand that if a thief takes my money and gives to someone else then steals from another and gives it to me I've just excepted welfare.

I call it getting my money back from the guy that stole it.

certifiedfunds · 10-12-2012, 13:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry

1. I could have sworn that when old Teddy implemented SS he call it "A Contract Whit America".
2. Ever watch the movie It's a Wonderful Life? You need to hear where Jimmy Stuart explains about where the bank's/Credit Union's money is. Sounds a lot like you're # 2. I really don't think banks and credit unions are welfare systems. Are they?
3. So I'm to understand that if a thief takes my money and gives to someone else then steals from another and gives it to me I've just excepted welfare.

I call it getting my money back from the guy that stole it.

You're money's gone. You're stealing from someone else.

**Jerry** · 10-12-2012, 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by certifiedfunds

You're money's gone. You're stealing from someone else.

So I'm stealing. Funny! I haven't taken money from the government but now I'm a theaf. So if I don't accept any SS everyone gets their money back and the government abolishes SS. OK! Sounds like a plan to me.

certifiedfunds · 10-12-2012, 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry

So I'm stealing. Funny! I haven't taken money from the government but now I'm a theaf. So if I don't accept any SS everyone gets their money back and the government abolishes SS. OK! Sounds like a plan to me.

Do you disagree that the money that was taxed from you is gone or do you think it's in an account somewhere drawing interest?

When a person gets a social security check, from where does the government get the money to pay it?

**Jerry** · 10-12-2012, 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by certifiedfunds

Do you disagree that the money that was taxed from you is gone or do you think it's in an account somewhere drawing interest?

When a person gets a social security check, from where does the government get the money to pay it?

My money was used. The government promised to start giving it back at age 65. It's not my problem where they get it. Just like when I put money in the bank... the bank uses it, it doesn't keep it locked in a box. When I ask for my money they give me money others have put in the bank. If there were a run on the bank there isn't enough money to give everyone "their" money back. Soooo if we follow your line of thinking the banks are handing out charity.

certifiedfunds · 10-12-2012, 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry

My money was used.

Your money was spent. It's gone. That's a fact.

Quote:

The government promised to start giving it back at age 65.

Factually wrong, Jerry. They were never holding your money for you, or using it while you waited. You were taxed and your money was spent. This is a fact. It is happening to me right now too.

No different than any other tax.

Quote:

It's not my problem where they get it. Just like when I put money in the bank... the bank uses it, it doesn't keep it locked in a box. When I ask for my money they give me money others have put in the bank. If there were a run on the bank there isn't enough money to give everyone "their" money back. Soooo if we follow your line of thinking the banks are handing out charity.

Only it isn't like that. Jerry, it isn't what you think it is. Thinking it is something doesn't make it so.

A better comparison would be to say that you paid taxes for a number of years, then you filed for housing assistance, welfare and food stamps. It is literally the same thing. Just because you have to be a certain age to apply doesn't change a thing.

These are facts. Research it yourself if you don't believe me.

**Jerry** · 10-12-2012, 20:06

Actually it wasn't suposed to be what it has been turned into. Originally there was a Trust created. Google it you'll see. The SS money was suposed to be put into the trust and only used to pay SS benefits.

certifiedfunds · 10-12-2012, 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry

Actually it wasn't suposed to be what it has been turned into. Originally there was a Trust created. Google it you'll see. The SS money was suposed to be put into the trust and only used to pay SS benefits.

My minivan was supposed to be a Ferrari 458 Italia.

What matters is what it IS.

The Roosevelt administration argued, and the Supreme court ruled, that Social Security was a tax completely unrelated to the payments made. Forced savings is/was very clearly unconstitutional. It isn't savings. They aren't "using" your money. Your money is gone. In order for you to collect a check, the government has to confiscate money from a younger person at the barrel of a gun. It is welfare....socialist wealth redistribution from the young to the wealthiest demographic in the country.

Also, it was supposed to be for widows and orphans, not every schmo that crosses retirement age.

You've been scammed. I'm being scammed.

**Jerry** · 10-12-2012, 20:44

Maybe this will convince you. You put in, loan, have taken from you $10.00. From the person, entety, system you take back $9.00. That's not charity. You take back $10.00. Thats still part what you gave and was promissed. Now if you receive $10.01 that could be considered getting into the realm of charity. I'll leave that part of the discussion for another time.

We can go back and forth from now until hell freezes over and I will not agree that people that worked all their lives and paid into SS all their lives are receiving charity. I've had the conviction my whole life. I didn't just develops it now that I'm close to an age to collect on my investment.

**Jerry** · 10-12-2012, 20:52

Don't even bother bringing into this what the supreme court has ruled. They Obomacare is a tax. They say gun control is league. The supreme court often gets it wrong. Couple more liberal judges and they'll say the Constitution is completely outdated.

Ruble Noon · 10-12-2012, 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry

Maybe this will convince you. You put in, loan, have taken from you $10.00. From the person, entety, system you take back $9.00. That's not charity. You take back $10.00. Thats still part what you gave and was promissed. Now if you receive $10.01 that could be considered getting into the realm of charity. I'll leave that part of the discussion for another time.

We can go back and forth from now until hell freezes over and I will not agree that people that worked all their lives and paid into SS all their lives are receiving charity. I've had the conviction my whole life. I didn't just develops it now that I'm close to an age to collect on my investment.

The promise was a lie. Social Security was/is a ponzi scheme.

Jerry, you were right when you said SS was a promise but you are treating it like a guarantee. SS benefits are not guaranteed and are not a right. If they were guaranteed or a right then the politicians couldn't arbitrarily raise the age at which you receive the benefits. SS is just a tax that is redistributed and the problem with it is there are too many drawing from it and not enough paying in for it to continue. Yes, we all pay in to it but when we collect we are reaping the fruits of anothers labor that was stolen from them by our government.

certifiedfunds · 10-12-2012, 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry

Maybe this will convince you. You put in, loan, have taken from you $10.00. From the person, entety, system you take back $9.00. That's not charity. You take back $10.00. Thats still part what you gave and was promissed. Now if you receive $10.01 that could be considered getting into the realm of charity. I'll leave that part of the discussion for another time.

We can go back and forth from now until hell freezes over and I will not agree that people that worked all their lives and paid into SS all their lives are receiving charity. I've had the conviction my whole life. I didn't just develops it now that I'm close to an age to collect on my investment.

Jerry - you're factually wrong on all points and your analogies are wrong. You want to believe something that is a lie. Perhaps it makes you feel better about becoming a welfare recipient.

When I was a kid, they told me the moon was made of cheese. Is it?

Finally, it isn't an investment. It simply isn't.

Here, seriously, watch this video. It gets relevant at about 2:00

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=LUDoOP6RK94#!

certifiedfunds · 10-12-2012, 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry

Don't even bother bringing into this what the supreme court has ruled. They Obomacare is a tax. They say gun control is league. The supreme court often gets it wrong. Couple more liberal judges and they'll say the Constitution is completely outdated.

Jerry - the court agreed with the Roosevelt administration who created it. Even the Roosevelt administration knew that what you wish social security was, was illegal.

I'm sorry but there is no Santa Claus.

**Jerry** · 10-13-2012, 00:26

I really don't care how anyone twist it or wants it to be welfare. When someone put out money with the promise of receiving money at a later time the money they receive is what they payed for not welfare.

Next you'll try to convince me that if I except money form my insurance company for damages I'm collecting welfare.

Give it up guy I'm not buying into the BS. The people on SS aren't on welfare they are collecting THEIR retirement money. Next you'll try to tell me that when I start drawing on the money I put into my PRIVATE retirement account I'll be on welfare because the money I put in wasn't locked in a box for the last 30 years, the bank loaned it out to others who paid the bank back and the bank is now paying me with money other people put in the bank. Hell when I start cashing in my stocks will that be welfare money too? I guess not because the stocks have been locked in my safe

G19G20 · 10-13-2012, 03:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry

My money was used. The government promised to start giving it back at age 65. It's not my problem where they get it. Just like when I put money in the bank... the bank uses it, it doesn't keep it locked in a box. When I ask for my money they give me money others have put in the bank. If there were a run on the bank there isn't enough money to give everyone "their" money back. Soooo if we follow your line of thinking the banks are handing out charity.

They're pretty much just printing the money up and handing it to you and passing on the inflation to the rest of us that will never benefit from the system but are still paying into it. You're not stealing. That's an unfair term. You do have to realize that the money isn't in some fund somewhere waiting for you. It's being printed up (obvious since we have huge deficits) and there's a financial shell game underway to keep it going.

It's very selfish to say you don't care where they get it. They're getting it from your kids and grandkids since they are ultimately hit with the debt. Your bank example is spot on. Do you know how many banks have failed in the last 4 years? Or why it took passing TARP to calm the markets down? You can't ponzi forever.

certifiedfunds · 10-13-2012, 07:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry

I really don't care how anyone twist it or wants it to be welfare. When someone put out money with the promise of receiving money at a later time the money they receive is what they payed for not welfare.

Next you'll try to convince me that if I except money form my insurance company for damages I'm collecting welfare.

Give it up guy I'm not buying into the BS. The people on SS aren't on welfare they are collecting THEIR retirement money. Next you'll try to tell me that when I start drawing on the money I put into my PRIVATE retirement account I'll be on welfare because the money I put in wasn't locked in a box for the last 30 years, the bank loaned it out to others who paid the bank back and the bank is now paying me with money other people put in the bank. Hell when I start cashing in my stocks will that be welfare money too? I guess not because the stocks have been locked in my safe

I understand how you feel. It makes it easier to accept welfare. I get it. That doesn't change the fact that literally every single point you've made here is factually wrong. SS is a place on the sow's tit. No different than any of the other ****.

You've been lied to your whole life. You want so badly for it to be different. You want to buy into the lies because it makes you feel better. I get it.

Sorry. You're wrong. It isn't so.

Do you have kids or grandkids? Do you love them? How can you look them in the eye knowing you're stealing from them?

**Jerry** · 10-13-2012, 10:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by certifiedfunds

I understand how you feel. It makes it easier to accept welfare. I get it. That doesn't change the fact that literally every single point you've made here is factually wrong. SS is a place on the sow's tit. No different than any of the other ****.

You've been lied to your whole life. You want so badly for it to be different. You want to buy into the lies because it makes you feel better. I get it.

Sorry. You're wrong. It isn't so.

Do you have kids or grandkids? Do you love them? How can you look them in the eye knowing you're stealing from them?

You keep wanting to make this about ME. Let me try one more time to get this through your Thick Coonass head

. Then I give up. And you ain't changing my mind. I WORK FOR A LIVING. I AM NOT RECEIVING SS. I COULD CARE LESS "PERSONALLY" IF THEY ABOLISH SS TODAY. IT'S NOT ABOUT ME! It's about the people who's money the government took with the PROMISE that they would receive money when they were older.

Perhaps if I break it down to it's simplest form you'll understated and agree.

WELFARE = FREE.... food, cloth, money anything.... something some one receives with no input. Money for nothing!

SS = persons PAYS puts into the system in return for something out. Money in = money out. No money in = no money out.

NO if you want to speak "specifically" of those... that received welfare all their lives or illegal aliens that the government has added as recipients to the SS system... Absolutely, positively without a double are receiving SS in the form of WELFARE.

Over and out.

Have a nice day.

It's a done deal.

Don't bother to reply I'm not reading anymore BS.

I'm tired of a useless argument

Just bite me.

Love ya man.

Oh yah! Did I say you aren't going to change my mind.

jakebrake · 10-13-2012, 10:33

jerry, how do you really feel?

**Jerry** · 10-13-2012, 10:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by G19G20

They're pretty much just printing the money up and handing it to you and passing on the inflation to the rest of us that will never benefit from the system but are still paying into it. You're not stealing. That's an unfair term. You do have to realize that the money isn't in some fund somewhere waiting for you. It's being printed up (obvious since we have huge deficits) and there's a financial shell game underway to keep it going.

It's very selfish to say you don't care where they get it. They're getting it from your kids and grandkids since they are ultimately hit with the debt. Your bank example is spot on. Do you know how many banks have failed in the last 4 years? Or why it took passing TARP to calm the markets down? You can't ponzi forever.

I'm not doing anything. I'm not receiving SS. By the time I become eligible it may not exist. It is beyond my comprehension how people miss the facts then want to tell ME I'm the one with the problem.

I DON NOT RECEIVE SS. I NEVER IN MY LIFE RECEIVED "FREE" GOVERNMENT MONEY OR ANY TYPE OF ASSISTANCE.

Everyone! Capiesh? Or however in the hell you spell it.

Now everyone stay after school and right 100 times. Jerry is a working man. Jerry does not take welfare.

**Jerry** · 10-13-2012, 10:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by jakebrake

jerry, how do you really feel?

Let me think about that and get back to you.

certifiedfunds · 10-13-2012, 10:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry

You keep wanting to make this about ME. Let me try one more time to get this through your Thick Coonass head

. Then I give up. And you ain't changing my mind. I WORK FOR A LIVING. I AM NOT RECEIVING SS. I COULD CARE LESS "PERSONALLY" IF THEY ABOLISH SS TODAY. IT'S NOT ABOUT ME! It's about the people who's money the government took with the PROMISE that they would receive money when they were older.

Perhaps if I break it down to it's simplest form you'll understated and agree.

WELFARE = FREE.... food, cloth, money anything.... something some one receives with no input. Money for nothing!

SS = persons PAYS puts into the system in return for something out. Money in = money out. No money in = no money out.

NO if you want to speak "specifically" of those... that received welfare all their lives or illegal aliens that the government has added as recipients to the SS system... Absolutely, positively without a double are receiving SS in the form of WELFARE.

Over and out.

Have a nice day.

It's a done deal.

Don't bother to reply I'm not reading anymore BS.

I'm tired of a useless argument

Just bite me.

Love ya man.

Oh yah! Did I say you aren't going to change my mind.

Jerry - the government lies.

No one "pays into" social security. We're taxed. Money is fungible.

It is about you because you are cooking up this notion of what social security is based on what you want it to be, not what it actually is.

It is welfare. A handout. The fact that you are taxed beforehand has nothing to do with it.

certifiedfunds · 10-13-2012, 10:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry

I'm not doing anything. I'm not receiving SS. By the time I become eligible it may not exist.

How can it not exist when you say the government is just giving your your money back?

If the government is just holding your money for you and then giving it back to you, why would there ever be a problem?

I'm not saying you're a welfare recipient. I'm saying you will be when you start receiving SS.

DOC44 · 10-13-2012, 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by certifiedfunds

I'm not saying you're a welfare recipient. I'm saying you will be when you start receiving SS.

I started paying SS at 18, many years max amount. The gov used my money for 48 years before I got any of it back. What I am getting is not welfare.... I earned it and paid it in.

Doc44

certifiedfunds · 10-13-2012, 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOC44

I started paying SS at 18, many years max amount. The gov used my money for 48 years before I got any of it back. What I am getting is not welfare.... I earned it and paid it in.

Doc44

Sorry. You were taxed. You didn't "pay", it was taken. I'm being taxed to pay you. I've maxed out SS every year of employment since college. I'm 41. That money is gone. It blows.

Your money wasn't "used" and then returned to you. It was spent. Gone.

It's welfare. You're a welfare recipient.