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Old 10-13-2012, 19:48   #426
DOC44
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Sorry. You were taxed. You didn't "pay", it was taken. I'm being taxed to pay you. I've maxed out SS every year of employment since college. I'm 41. That money is gone. It blows.

Your money wasn't "used" and then returned to you. It was spent. Gone.

It's welfare. You're a welfare recipient.
No, they are paying me back for a loan and they are having to use your money because they have given mine away money. They could just write me a check for my total contribution plus 9% interest compounded monthly and I would call it even.

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Old 10-13-2012, 19:51   #427
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Economic fail.

You need to ask yourself WHY it has gotten more expensive.

LASIK, gets cheaper.
Technology gets cheaper.

No government involvement. Great examples of quality improving rapidly while costs to the consumer decrease.
Wrong ... your logic fail.

Your example of a technology, LASIK ...which you argue gets cheaper overtime ... is somewhat true (until even more advanced and more expensive BETTER technology makes it obsolete) ... but entirely misses the point. It didn't even EXIST until the 90s. It is therefore a delta increase on medical costs ... even if someday it is 40 bucks an eye ... it is still more than when it wasn't available. Examples like this are all over medicine. Medicine's abilities and value has increased, of course we pay more.

When you have an array of medicines and advanced technology that can CURE what would have killed you 50 years ago ... there is added cost!! See my car safety technology analogy.

Thank you for giving another example/analogy (LASIK) of new technology adding value and therefore adding cost relative to income (as I did with my car safety technology in 1950 vs now) ... ironic ... but helpful!

Last edited by douggmc; 10-13-2012 at 20:03..
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Old 10-13-2012, 19:52   #428
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No, they are paying me back for a loan and they are having to use your money because they have given mine away money. They could just write me a check for my total contribution plus 9% interest compounded monthly and I would call it even.

Doc44
So you have a promissory note then?

Contract?

Sorry. I don't mean it to be insulting but it is what it is.

It is literally no different than if you applied for food stamps at this point in your life. You're just buying into the lie. They count on that.

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Old 10-13-2012, 19:59   #429
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Wrong ... your logic fail.

Your example of a technology, LASIK ...which you argue gets cheaper overtime ... is somewhat true (until further more expensive and BETTER technology makes it obsolete) ... but entirely misses the point. It didn't even EXIST until the 90s. It is therefore a delta increase on medical costs ... even if someday it is 40 bucks an eye ... it is still more than when it wasn't available. Examples like this are all over medicine. Medicine's abilities and value has increased, of course we pay more. See my car safety technology analogy.

Thank you for giving another example/analogy of new technology adding value and therefore adding cost relative to income (as I did with my car safety technology in 1950 vs now).


You absolutely don't know what you're talking about. It isn't a "delta increase" in medical costs because its a cash business falling outside of "the system".

What did a personal computer cost in 1990? Has it gotten better or worse since then? What has happened to the price.

I has LASIK in 1999 @ $4000 per eye. It is light years better today. What does it cost?

Two very simple examples of what happens when government stays out of the market.

Price inflation is caused when too many dollars are chasing too few services. Government involvement in the market ALWAYS causes inflation. Medicare and college education are classic, textbook examples.
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Old 10-13-2012, 20:01   #430
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You absolutely don't know what you're talking about. It isn't a "delta increase" in medical costs because its a cash business falling outside of "the system".

What did a personal computer cost in 1990? Has it gotten better or worse since then? What has happened to the price.

I has LASIK in 1999 @ $4000 per eye. It is light years better today. What does it cost?

Two very simple examples of what happens when government stays out of the market.

Price inflation is caused when too many dollars are chasing too few services. Government involvement in the market ALWAYS causes inflation. Medicare and college education are classic, textbook examples.
What did it cost before it didn't exist? ZERO. Therefore, even if it costs 40$ per eye today, it is still DELTA INCREASE IN COST.


I've finally figured you out ... virtually all of your positions are rooted in TEXTBOOK and ACADEMIC economic laissez faire theory. Which doesn't exist in reality. There is no perfect system in economics outside of theory. The folks that don't realize this are not much further up the totem pole than quacks who don't have a clue about economics at all.

It is as if you took a couple economics undergraduate courses, but skipped the last week of the last one where the professor explained this key point. Theoretical systems don't always exist in reality.

Last edited by douggmc; 10-13-2012 at 20:06..
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Old 10-13-2012, 20:04   #431
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Price inflation is caused when too many dollars are chasing too few services. Government involvement in the market ALWAYS causes inflation. Medicare and college education are classic, textbook examples.
true!




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Old 10-13-2012, 20:06   #432
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I've finally figured you out ... virtually all of your positions are rooted in TEXTBOOK and ACADEMIC economic laissez faire theory. Which doesn't exist in reality. There is no perfect system in economics outside of theory. The folks that don't realize that are not much further up the totem pole than quacks.
This is my business, sport. Mine and my spouse's. My business is rooted in Medicare reimbursement. My wife's is cash. The middle class can still afford my wife's services. The middle class can't afford what I do without a 3rd payor.

My wife sets her own fees, works 8-5, 4 days per week and earns a living that meets her standards.

Your average GP MD is scrambling. Why is that?

Say? Have you happened to notice the new ads on tv's for catheters? Every wonder why you suddenly see them?

There is a ton of money to be made just chasing Medicare reimbursement. Entire business models are built around it.

Last edited by certifiedfunds; 10-13-2012 at 20:08..
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Old 10-13-2012, 20:07   #433
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This is my business, sport. Mine and my spouse's. My business is rooted in Medicare reimbursement. My wife's is cash. The middle class can still afford my wife's services. The middle class can't afford what I do without a 3rd payor.

My wife sets her own fees, works 8-5, 4 days per week and earns a living that meets her standards.

Your average GP MD is scrambling.

Say? Have you happened to notice the new ads on tv's for catheters? Every wonder why you suddenly see them?

There is a ton of money to be made just chasing Medicare reimbursement. Entire business models are built around it.
Yeah ... just gloss over and skip the main point we've debated the past few posts now that I've destroyed your line of argument.
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Old 10-13-2012, 20:12   #434
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What did it cost before it didn't exist? ZERO. Therefore, even if it costs 40$ per eye today, it is still DELTA INCREASE IN COST.

That's like saying that home appliances are a "delta increase in cost" of living. Or, fax machines are a delta increase in the cost of doing business. Or, breast implants are a delta increase in the cost of adult entertainment.

Cash medical procedures are outside of the "system". Elective procedures add nothing to the "cost of healthcare".

I'm really curious at this point, what is it that you do for a living?
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Old 10-13-2012, 20:16   #435
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Yeah ... just gloss over and skip the main point we've debated the past few posts now that I've destroyed your line of argument.
Speaking of glossing over, you're getting good at it.

You've destroyed nothing. All you've done for several pages now is twist and fabricate to try to convince others why Obamacare is good for everyone.

I'm still waiting for you to explain how it makes everything cheaper when you admit that costs will increase for people like you and me who are payors in the system now.

Remember that ? First you argue that we're paying for the freeloaders now and need Obamacare to bring the costs down. Then you admit that people who have insurance now are going to pay more. Then, the fraction of the fraction of 22 year olds who get hit by a buss have to start paying for insurance they don't use. More expensive for them too.

Where is the savings?

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Old 10-13-2012, 20:19   #436
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douggmc socialist math:

$1 + $1 = $3

How?

We steal the 3rd dollar from that other guy and convince him we're all better off.

Last edited by certifiedfunds; 10-13-2012 at 20:53..
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Old 10-13-2012, 20:32   #437
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Price inflation is caused when too many dollars are chasing too few services. Government involvement in the market ALWAYS causes inflation. Medicare and college education are classic, textbook examples.
textbooks are textbook examples

Last edited by Stubudd; 10-13-2012 at 20:36..
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Old 10-13-2012, 20:52   #438
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textbooks are textbook examples
well done
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Old 10-14-2012, 03:33   #439
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Im good at these 5000+ view threads.
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