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Old 10-04-2012, 18:40   #141
douggmc
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Originally Posted by juggy4711 View Post
For all those so impressed or pleased by Romney's performance I would reference a bit of Chris Rock. Warning, foul language and NSFW.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0B_ekSrsEk
LMAO ... you mean like him bragging that "his plan" will create 12 million new jobs in 4 years? Even though that is already the projection based on current policies.

Rick Scott did the same thing in 2010 FL Gov election.

Last edited by douggmc; 10-04-2012 at 18:42..
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Old 10-04-2012, 18:45   #142
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Hmm. Seems like an awfully presumptive, defensive, and sharp response to what was a simple question. I'm sorry you seem to have an issue with another member. I don't recall having any interaction with you in the past. So ... bit surprised.

... and I'll try not to "run and hide", but I do have a job and require sleep, so no promises I will respond on your schedule (or that I won't get bored and go elsewhere).

So ... I'd be happy to answer questions. I haven't read one from you yet though (beyond "Why?"). Ask away. Otherwise ... I hope YOU don't "run and hide" from the question I posed to you already. Here it is again:

I'd really be interested in reading some examples.


PS - Trust me .. I'm not going to be "afraid". I enjoy it ... it is nice entertainment and stimulating to lounge w/ my laptop on the couch interacting and reading while watching the boobtube.

Jerry is right.
The minute they get cornered by Federal law they yell "States rights, Big Brother get out of my way. It's up to my State". If they don't like the State law they yell "It's my Constitutional Right, Big Brother, butt in and see to it I get my way".
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Old 10-04-2012, 18:50   #143
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Jerry is right.
The minute they get cornered by Federal law they yell "States rights, Big Brother get out of my way. It's up to my State". If they don't like the State law they yell "It's my Constitutional Right, Big Brother, butt in and see to it I get my way".
Kind of like how CCW people want the fed to mandate reciprocity?

And the "war on drugs" people want the fed to continue busting MJ clinics in states where they're legal?
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Old 10-04-2012, 19:11   #144
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Kind of like how CCW people want the fed to mandate reciprocity?


The 2nd Amendment IS a Federal issue.

No Cigar. Fail

And the "war on drugs" people want the fed to continue busting MJ clinics in states where they're legal?

Or the people of a State voting to keep MJ illegal, and the dopers expecting the Fed to change it.

Fail again




Political Issues
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Old 10-04-2012, 19:34   #145
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Originally Posted by douggmc View Post

Hmm. Seems like an awfully presumptive, defensive, and sharp response to what was a simple question. I'm sorry you seem to have an issue with another member. I don't recall having any interaction with you in the past. So ... bit surprised.

... and I'll try not to "run and hide", but I do have a job and require sleep, so no promises I will respond on your schedule (or that I won't get bored and go elsewhere).

So ... I'd be happy to answer questions. I haven't read one from you yet though (beyond "Why?"). Ask away. Otherwise ... I hope YOU don't "run and hide" from the question I posed to you already. Here it is again:

I'd really be interested in reading some examples.


PS - Trust me .. I'm not going to be "afraid". I enjoy it ... it is nice entertainment and stimulating to lounge w/ my laptop on the couch interacting and reading while watching the boobtube.
Pardon my attitude (NOT!) but I've been debating with liberals for years and it always goes the same way. For "example". You asked for an example. I gave you and "example". You missed it! Or you chose to ignore it. Rather than accept or comment on my "example" you've choose to use the "You're such an "awfully presumptive" person opening. So to answer another of "your" questions... After years of dealing with liberals I found there is no such thing as reasoning so I just tell it like it is then after listening to them whine I give them facts and they come back with more emotional BS. So here we are!

And here's "MY" first question. If you read my post how did you miss my "EXAMPLE"?

Quote:
Example? Try Obomacare for one. The list is long.
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Old 10-04-2012, 19:45   #146
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Pardon my attitude (NOT!) but I've been debating with liberals for years and it always goes the same way. For "example". You asked for an example. I gave you and "example". You missed it! Or you chose to ignore it. Rather than accept or comment on my "example" you've choose to use the "You're such an "awfully presumptive" person opening. So to answer another of "your" questions... After years of dealing with liberals I found there is no such thing as reasoning so I just tell it like it is then after listening to them whine I give them facts and they come back with more emotional BS. So here we are!

So ... your response to my request for examples of:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
... If a Conservative doesn't like something he doesn't do it. If a liberal doesn't like something he doesn't want anyone to do it.
is:

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"Obomacare for one" ?
May I ask you to expand on that? Is it the mandate?

Are you just being coy? Would rather just seemingly play a game of "gotcha" where you are the winner in your own mind? Because that is what I think any credible, honest observer would conclude based on our exchange so far. I'm trying to engage you in a legitimate debate. If you don't want to, fine. I'll just conclude you can't support your own claims in any meaningful or coherent manner.

By the way, do you know what the root word "moderate" means from the word "moderator"? Because, while I certainly don't expect you to suspend your opinion in any way, I find my exchange with you highly ironic.

Last edited by douggmc; 10-04-2012 at 19:55..
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Old 10-04-2012, 20:37   #147
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Originally Posted by douggmc View Post
So ... your response to my request for examples of:



is:



May I ask you to expand on that? Is it the mandate?

Are you just being coy? Would rather just seemingly play a game of "gotcha" where you are the winner in your own mind? Because that is what I think any credible, honest observer would conclude based on our exchange so far. I'm trying to engage you in a legitimate debate. If you don't want to, fine. I'll just conclude you can't support your own claims in any meaningful or coherent manner.

By the way, do you know what the root word "moderate" means from the word "moderator"? Because, while I certainly don't expect you to suspend your opinion in any way, I find my exchange with you highly ironic.
I’ll cover your last question first. I don’t moderate this forum. I am moderated the same as anyone else so I’m allowed to express my opinion the same as anyone else. Liberals just make me laugh sooooo much. They can’t stay on subject, they try to use anything they can to show superiority (yes I know what moderate means) and will use any trick in the book to try to “attack” the other person and draw attention away from their own inadequacy. You ARE living up to my expectation of a liberal.


As to the rest of your BS post. And it’s either BS or you are a complete idiot. I Answered the FIST PART HIGHLIGHTED IN YOUR POST. Post 136. You have highlighted “liberals keep forcing their will on people” You highlighted it! You posted in response..
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I'd really be interested in reading some examples.

You didn’t say you specifically didn’t want an answer to the VERY FIRST THING YOU HAD HIGHLIGHTED… so I answered it.


Now that you’ve proven to be a liberal without a clue hit me with your best shot because you sure haven’t done a very good job so far. You haven’t agreed with or disputed my EXAMPLE. You ask if it’s a mandate. Mandate or not what it is, IS liberals FORCING THEIR WILL ON OTHERS.

Now do you want to debate liberals forcing their will on other? Or do want to continue playing silly liberal games?

Edit: Just for grins and giggles. EXAMPLE of "If a liberal doesn't like something he doesn't want anyone to do it. It's the difference between Freedom and Fascism." Liberals want laws to limit or eliminate fatty food served in fast food places. If conservatives don't want fatty food they don't buy it.
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Old 10-04-2012, 21:04   #148
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The 2nd Amendment IS a Federal issue.

No Cigar. Fail
It's the Feds job to override state laws on the one issue of CCW? Sounds like you're saying "It's my Constitutional Right, Big Brother, butt in and see to it I get my way".


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Originally Posted by countrygun View Post
Or the people of a State voting to keep MJ illegal, and the dopers expecting the Fed to change it.

Fail again
You didn't actually address the scenario I put forth did you? I'm not saying Liberals don't play that game. I'm saying everybody does, including conservatives, including Republicans, and definitely including you.

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Old 10-04-2012, 21:57   #149
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They can’t stay on subject, they try to use anything they can to show superiority ...
Hilarious, I'm trying desperately to get forthright, on subject answers from you ... and you post long obfuscated ad hom blanket attacks on me (without knowing me or engaging me in discussion previously) and "liberals" ... instead of engaging me on the topic. With that said ... I'll try to avoid being guilty of the same by not continuing on with the ancillary diversionary game. So ...

Your 50,000 foot, entirely vague response is in fact "Obomacare". OK. That is per my request for an example of your statement: "liberals keep forcing their will on people ". Pretty hard to respond to that unless you want an equally vague and 50,000 foot answer. Since you won't say what specifically beyond that though ... I'll have to infer it is the most common argument against it:

The mandate. How can the government force me to get insurance or pay a tax penalty (or tax ... whatever you want to call it).

Well ... interestingly enough ... the answer lies mostly within your own original argument ( "how can the liberals (in this case liberal policy) keep forcing their will on people"). I think it can best be illustrated by asking what happens when YOU (I'm speaking figuratively ... I don't know your specific situation) choose to not be insured? Do you think you can control when and where you have a major accident or illness? Do you think you can cover, out of pocket, the million dollars of medical bills (if you even live)? Who exactly has to pay for it when you don't? So ... YOUR choice (gamble) to not be insured, forces me to pay for YOU (in the form of higher direct costs and premiums). YOU are IMPACTING ME. People like you are "forcing their will on" ME. Do you see the irony with that ... when your complaint is ""liberals keep forcing their will on people "? The mandate is necessary to protect my rights and liberty. Without it, I will continue to pay for other peoples bad decisions.

The concept of liberty and life, as far as I'm concerned is: Do what you want, until/if you impact me (or prohibitively "society" in general). Then we have to have some rules.

I call that libertarian, you seem to want to call it "liberal" somehow.

So ... that addresses the mandate angle. It ain't perfect and I think better alternatives, but that is different subject. I hardly feel it is some infringement on my rights though, quite the opposite. It is stopping deadbeats from infringing on MY rights by CHOOSING not to insure themselves.

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Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
Liberals want laws to limit or eliminate fatty food served in fast food places. If conservatives don't want fatty food they don't buy it.
I'm not going to address this in this post ... just simply to limit the scope of the discussion. I'll gladly address it separately later if you so desire (I'll try to make a note of it and be proactively respond later if we get to that point).

Last edited by douggmc; 10-04-2012 at 22:04..
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Old 10-04-2012, 22:06   #150
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Liberals want laws to limit or eliminate fatty food served in fast food places. If conservatives don't want fatty food they don't buy it.
What do conservatives do if they don't want marijuana?
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Old 10-04-2012, 22:08   #151
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It's the Feds job to override state laws on the one issue of CCW? Sounds like you're saying "It's my Constitutional Right, Big Brother, butt in and see to it I get my way".


You didn't actually address the scenario I put forth did you? I'm not saying Liberals don't play that game. I'm saying everybody does, including conservatives, including Republicans, and definitely including you.

Well, since the Founders specifically mentioned the right to keep and bear arms in the BOR and left those not enumerated to the States, it seems that "the right to roll a fatty" belongs up to your State. Don't cry to the Feds if the rest of your State doesn't agree with you.

It's really pretty clear but you liberals, in the Faux conservative costumes tend to get a little confused.
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Old 10-04-2012, 22:19   #152
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Well, since the Founders specifically mentioned the right to keep and bear arms in the BOR and left those not enumerated to the States, it seems that "the right to roll a fatty" belongs up to your State. Don't cry to the Feds if the rest of your State doesn't agree with you.

It's really pretty clear but you liberals, in the Faux conservative costumes tend to get a little confused.
So the states have the right to legalize MJ, right? Why would conservatives want the feds to suppress that right in states which it's legal?
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Old 10-04-2012, 22:22   #153
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Well, since the Founders specifically mentioned the right to keep and bear arms in the BOR and left those not enumerated to the States, it seems that "the right to roll a fatty" belongs up to your State. Don't cry to the Feds if the rest of your State doesn't agree with you.
So the rights specifically mentioned in the BOR are "special" rights, according to the Founders? They should be enforced by the feds while other, non-listed rights shouldn't? Do you believe that was the Founders' intention?
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Old 10-04-2012, 22:23   #154
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So the states have the right to legalize MJ, right? Why would conservatives want the feds to suppress that right in states which it's legal?

Completely off topic and irrelevant question. Open yet another thread on that issue.
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Old 10-04-2012, 22:26   #155
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Completely off topic and irrelevant question. Open yet another thread on that issue.
No, it's completely relevant. If we're talking about liberals wanting to ban everything they don't like while conservatives simply don't buy it, you need to explain why conservatives want MJ banned. You need to realize it's not a liberal thing, it's a human thing. What's also human is seeing the faults in another group of people while ignoring your own faults, even when those faults are identical.
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Old 10-04-2012, 22:35   #156
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Completely off topic and irrelevant question.
Not in the least. I'm not weighing on the topic, but simply pointing out your inconsistent arguments.

Here you say it is a state's right basically (e.g. California chooses to legalize medical MJ) and the Fed Gov should stay out of it:

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Well ... it seems that "the right to roll a fatty" belongs up to your State. Don't cry to the Feds if the rest of your State doesn't agree with you.
Here Gundude points out that California legalized medical MJ, but the Federal government has and continues to execute DEA interdiction on dispensaries in the state ... superseding the rights of the state:

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Originally Posted by Gundude View Post
So the states have the right to legalize MJ, right? Why would conservatives want the feds to suppress that right in states which it's legal?
... and you (countrygun) now say it is irrelevant and off topic? Logic fail (your own logic at that)!!

I'm going to bed ... my online *****slap session this evening is making me sleepy

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Old 10-05-2012, 05:05   #157
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Well, since the Founders specifically mentioned the right to keep and bear arms in the BOR and left those not enumerated to the States, it seems that "the right to roll a fatty" belongs up to your State. Don't cry to the Feds if the rest of your State doesn't agree with you.

It's really pretty clear but you liberals, in the Faux conservative costumes tend to get a little confused.
Im definitely confused because I can't figure out who exactly you're talking about with your posts in the last couple pages.

Constitutional conservatives (should and largely do) understand that the 10th Amendment places issues like drug use squarely on each state's citizens to decide for themselves. If a state votes to ban a substance, that's how it was intended under the 10th and people then have the right to move to another state where that substance is lawful. This is what referendums are for, as we see in Colorado right now. Only in the instance of EVERY state banning a substance independently does it then mimic a federal ban. As it stands now the feds have usurped this 10th Amendment responsibility from the states and even ignore the will of state voters in the case of medical cannabis.

No one is going to complain to the feds if the feds end their War on Some Drugs and their state subsequently legislates a substance illegal. That's how the Founders intended it to work. Using an example like cannabis there will be some states that continue to ban it and other states that repeal existing bans. Let's remember that anything not expressly legislated as illegal is deemed lawful. If state statutes are silent then something is allowed.

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Old 10-05-2012, 07:08   #158
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It is time for a countrygun prediction


I will go out on a very solid limb here and I want those who disagree to PLEASE chime in so we can have your opinions preserved.


""Third parties will have one of the 2 lowest turnout percentages,(for third parties) in this election, of the last 40 years."
That's a reasonable prediction considering you're only expanding on my earlier prediction that this election will be the lowest (relative) turnout since the 70's.
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Old 10-05-2012, 07:20   #159
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And for the record, RP would have torn Obama apart last night...
STOP IT...!!! NO...NO MORE...YOU'RE KILLIN' ME! BWAHAHAHAHA!
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Old 10-05-2012, 07:33   #160
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So the states have the right to legalize MJ, right? Why would conservatives want the feds to suppress that right in states which it's legal?
You are correct. I believe the feds began overstepping their bounds on criminal law when the supreme court decided that everything in commerce anywhere could be controlled under "commerce clause" jurisdiction (see the danger of more democratic appointees on the S.Ct.).

To me, a criminal law on possession, growing, selling, etc., is up to the state and the feds only have the power to criminalize transport across state lines...but that theory started going to crap almost 100 years ago.

I don't think conservatives want the feds regulating drugs. I think the elderly do, but we aren't talking about anybody who has given much thought to political/legal philosophy - just a knee-jerk reaction from the average Walmart shopper.
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