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Old 10-10-2012, 05:40   #1
ArtificialGrape
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What does it take to be a Christian / No True Scotsman

I'm not particularly interested in dictionary definitions, since I can look those up easily enough.

What do the members here consider to be the requirements for someone to be a Christian?

We often see a variety of the No True Scotsman argument used here to exclude from "Christian" those that are not behaving particularly Christ-like.

If somebody truly believes in Jesus Christ, the Trinity and accepts John 14:6 -- Jesus answered, I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me -- etc., but they are unrepentant in stealing or murder, or whatever:
- Are they still Christian?
- If not, what are they?

I consider "Christian" to be based on what one believes, not how they behave, but I'm interested on how others would define "Christian".

-ArtificialGrape
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:23   #2
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If you say your're a Christian, and that's what you believe... that's what you are. The whole "Not a True Christian" BS is just a way to distance themselves from members of their club that do horrible things. It's a way of attempting to keep their religion blameless from the horrors done in it's name and that of their God.

And I think society agrees with me. Did you read the numbers of how the religious are falling off really quickly in this country. People are tired of it. The constant preaching and evangelizing. Then when one of their ilk screws the pooch they all scatter and claim that individual was never part of the club and cry oppression when you hold their club accountable. It's like watching loud little children bullying other kids on the play ground and then crying when someone bloodies their nose.

And I'm sure they'll take issue with all of that. But the numbers don't lie. Grown, educated people are getting TIRED of it all.
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:28   #3
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Peter denied Jesus for three times and he is still a Christian.
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:39   #4
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A person who believes that Jesus Christ died for our sins, and that belief in Jesus Christ is the only way to God and Heaven.

That Man is incapable of living a sin free life, and that only through the blood of Jesus Christ can he be saved.

In all the other world religions, man is saved by his own actions.
In Christianity, man is an unforgivable sinner and can only be saved through the grace of God and the blood of his son, Jesus Christ.

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Old 10-10-2012, 09:42   #5
Glock36shooter
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Originally Posted by JBnTX View Post
A person who believes that Jesus Christ died for our sins, and that belief in Jesus Christ is the only way to God and Heaven.

That Man is incapable of living a sin free life, and that only through the blood of Jesus Christ can he be saved.
I like this definition. It includes all the murderers and rapists and child molesters that call themselves Christian. They're incapable of living sin free and need the blood of christ to be saved.
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:52   #6
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Peter denied Jesus for three times and he is still a Christian.
Was Judas?
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:52   #7
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Originally Posted by ArtificialGrape View Post
I'm not particularly interested in dictionary definitions, since I can look those up easily enough.

What do the members here consider to be the requirements for someone to be a Christian?

We often see a variety of the No True Scotsman argument used here to exclude from "Christian" those that are not behaving particularly Christ-like.

If somebody truly believes in Jesus Christ, the Trinity and accepts John 14:6 -- Jesus answered, I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me -- etc., but they are unrepentant in stealing or murder, or whatever:
- Are they still Christian?
- If not, what are they?

I consider "Christian" to be based on what one believes, not how they behave, but I'm interested on how others would define "Christian".

-ArtificialGrape
Tough question AG. I would think that a Christian would be one who believes in the Trinity. Beyond that I think you will get a lot of different opinions. In the Church there is something called a Profession of Faith that further expands on it.
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Old 10-10-2012, 10:37   #8
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Was Judas?
Good point.

We only can see person's fruit with his/her faith in God and that will tell us about that person. Again it doesn't means that person could be a geniune Christian, only God knows.
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Old 10-11-2012, 13:19   #9
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Good point.

We only can see person's fruit with his/her faith in God and that will tell us about that person. Again it doesn't means that person could be a geniune Christian, only God knows.
True.

Paul said you are saved only through faith. So a contrite murderer could get saved.

But James also correctly noted that faith without works (good deeds and henceforth lack of grossly evil deeds) is dead.

Saint Vladimir, 956-1015 AD, is the patron saint of murderers. He was the illegitimate son of Svyatoslav, king of Kiev. When Vlad was a teenager, an enemy tribe killed Svyatoslav, beheaded the corpse, and turned the skull into a drinking cup. Being illegitimate, Vlad had no claim to the throne, but he didn't let that hold him back. He recruited an army, overthrew his half-brother, and had him assassinated. Then he broke into the convent where his widowed sister-in-law had taken refuge, raped her, and added her to his harem of 800 concubines.

He was popular with the warriors of Kiev. He built a big temple with images of of every god in the Russian pantheon plus every god of the Turkish tribes (just to be on the safe side). To consecrate the temple, he slaughtered a pair of his own subjects, two of the very few Christians in the kingdom.

He conquered one neighboring tribe after another. This military prowess impressed Basil, the emperor of Byzantium, who was threatened by a Bulgar invasion. Basil asked Vlad for help. Vlad defeated the Bulgars and saved Constantinople. Basil said he'd give whatever he liked, in gratitude. Vlad asked to marry Anna, the emperor's sister. Basil was stunned, Anna refused to marry a pagan with 7 wives and hundreds of mistresses, who had killed his own brother, and practiced human sacrifice. Desperate to honor his promise and protect his sister, Basil agreed to the match on condition that Vlad become a Christian. Vlad agreed, but no one, least of all Anna, expected him to be true to his word.

But the Lord moves in mysterious ways.

After his baptism and his Christian marriage to Anna, Vladimir returned to Kiev a changed man. He dismissed his wives and concubines and ordered his grandiose temple destroyed. He urged the men of his inner circle to accept the Christian faith. He asked his brother-in-law, the emperor, to send more bishops and priests as well as trained architects to build churches throughout the realm.

His change of heart was complete. Vlad, who had despised weakness, was now distributing alms to the helpless. He abolished the death penalty. People were curious about his dramatic change, and looked into Christianity. Many asked to be baptized.

For his success in spreading the Christian faith, the Eastern Church has given Saint Vladimir the title, "Equal to the Apostles". In the West, he is venerated as the patron of contrite murderers.
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Old 10-11-2012, 13:53   #10
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What's that saying...

If every Christian that another Christian thought wasn't a true Christian suddenly disappeared then there wouldn't be any Christians of any kind left.
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Old 10-11-2012, 15:50   #11
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What's that saying...

If every Christian that another Christian thought wasn't a true Christian suddenly disappeared then there wouldn't be any Christians of any kind left.
Your Stalinist communists and Trotskyite communists were at each other's throats. Same with your Shiite Muslims and your Sunni Muslims. And your more 'butch' Nazi homosexuals murdered your more 'sissy' ones.

Sounds like the Bible's right about humans being a fallen race, in need of Christ's saving grace.
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Old 10-11-2012, 21:07   #12
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Imo, someone that believes that Jesus was the son of God.
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Old 10-11-2012, 21:43   #13
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brokenprism,
You are noticeably absent. What does it take to be a Christian?

thanks,
-ArtificialGrape
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Old 10-11-2012, 22:17   #14
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brokenprism,
You are noticeably absent. What does it take to be a Christian?

thanks,
-ArtificialGrape
In my heart, I know this is what it takes to be a Christian.
Luke 9:23 Then he said to everyone: If anyone is willing to come after me: let him deny himself, and take up his cross every day, and follow me."

It is very hard to do so, and whoever here claims to have accomplished this, is a liar. As humans, we can only try. But that is why I have faith in God's mercy and love, because if I don't, I pretty much condenm myself to the abscence of God.
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Old 10-11-2012, 22:28   #15
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Was Judas?
Depends on how you look at it. If Judas had not acted as he did then there is no crucifiction and hence no salvation.

Being an integral part of the salvation should make him a Saint, not a pariah. Even more so if one believes in a Divine plan that is preordained. In that case he was guided as part of God's plan to bring about the death of the Savior.
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Old 10-12-2012, 12:10   #16
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Depends on how you look at it. If Judas had not acted as he did then there is no crucifiction and hence no salvation.

Being an integral part of the salvation should make him a Saint, not a pariah. Even more so if one believes in a Divine plan that is preordained. In that case he was guided as part of God's plan to bring about the death of the Savior.
Good point. Judas was a scapegoat.
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Old 10-12-2012, 12:18   #17
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Good point. Judas was a scapegoat.
Well, he was a jew
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