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Old 10-02-2012, 17:36   #1
Vic Hays
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Are you saved by grace or do you expect a discount?

What does it mean to be saved by grace through faith?

If you believe that you are saved for God's kingdom in this life and the future you have come to the place where you are willing to follow His will. His law is written in your heart through the grace of the indwelling Spirit of God.

If you claim to be born again and yet are following a self willed life and indulging in sin you are in denial of your true condition.

I John 2:5. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in Him. By this we know that we are in Him.
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John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

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Old 10-02-2012, 18:17   #2
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If you claim to be born again and yet are following a self willed life and indulging in sin you are in denial of your true condition.
.

That line right there is the basis of Christianity. Sin conscious, all the time.

Many do not understand the love that God has for them because this sin consciousness is the main message of many.

Sin hurts the sinner, it does not hurt God. God is always there to help us in our sin. To sin is to "miss the mark". Nothing more.

Now the question of "saved". Saved is a present moment reality experienced as a relationship with God. It has nothing to do with the future. "Saved" is relationship.

Have fun!
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Old 10-02-2012, 19:39   #3
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Yes, saved is a relationship and it is now.

Isaiah 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings.
Isaiah 33:15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;
Isaiah 33:16 He shall dwell on high: his place of defence shall be the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters shall be sure.

God is saving from sin not in sin.
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John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
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Old 10-02-2012, 20:24   #4
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Yes, saved is a relationship and it is now.

God is saving from sin not in sin.
God saves right in the midst of sin. The relationship does not stop because sin is present. The emphasis is the goodness of God, and not the badness of sin.

Sin, sin, sin. Christians love to talk about sin. For Christ sakes, God knows we fall short, and God is there anyways. This is the same with our human relationships. We fall short, but we endure. We get better at not falling short if we learn from our mistakes. It is that simple.

Grace is always present.

.
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Old 10-02-2012, 22:50   #5
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sin cannot exist in the presence of God.
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John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
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Old 10-03-2012, 00:48   #6
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sin cannot exist in the presence of God.

Obviously sin can exist in the presence of God. God is in us or have you forgotten?

I am amazed that Christians don't know that God loves sinners. Remember Jesus. He hung with men. Jesus was killed by sinners. He existed and continues to exist just fine. Your doctrine does not line up with your reality.

The Holy Spirit is in you. You sin. When you sin, the Holy Spirit does not leave you. Vic you are preaching confusion.
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Old 10-03-2012, 03:31   #7
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sin cannot exist in the presence of God.
Vic...

Go back to even the original story of sin and you will see this is false.

In the story, when Adam and eve blew it, who hid from whom? Who went looking for whom?

Who was asking questions? Where are you? Why are you hiding? Who told you you were naked?

Who took away their self styled covering made of scratchy itchy leaves and fashioned a much more comfortable one?

Your proposition keeps God constantly at a distance because we all know we fall short. If you manage to go a day without any overt sin, you feel pretty good, but the next time you do, you feel like god has turned his back. A never ending revolving door of gods love " I'm in, I'm out, I'm in, I'm out." with that type of theology it is no wonder so many are so neurotic where there spiritual health is concerned.
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Old 10-03-2012, 08:44   #8
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Sin hurts the sinner, it does not hurt God.
Wrongo.
As with any parent, it is hurtful to the parent to see their child fail, especially morally.

Quote:
God is always there to help us in our sin.
YES, but it is because He loves us too much to leave us to our sin.
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Old 10-03-2012, 08:53   #9
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How much is the discount for? Is it like a buy one get one free?
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Old 10-03-2012, 09:18   #10
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I am saved by Grace... Jones.
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Old 10-03-2012, 10:15   #11
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I am saved by Grace... Jones.
Grace jones got out of that business years ago...

You might check with this Grace, Grace Potter.

Religious Issues

Much cuter too.
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Old 10-03-2012, 11:47   #12
Vic Hays
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How much is the discount for? Is it like a buy one get one free?
Those who expect a discount expect to get saved with their sins instead of from their sins.

Hebrews 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
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Old 10-03-2012, 11:54   #13
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Vic...

Go back to even the original story of sin and you will see this is false.

Your proposition keeps God constantly at a distance because we all know we fall short. If you manage to go a day without any overt sin, you feel pretty good, but the next time you do, you feel like god has turned his back. A never ending revolving door of gods love " I'm in, I'm out, I'm in, I'm out." with that type of theology it is no wonder so many are so neurotic where there spiritual health is concerned.
Knowing we fall short keeps us humble and close to The Lord. Yes, we are always in God's love. Jesus sacrifice allows this temporarily if we do not grieve way the Spirit of God. God expects us to perfect holiness by our association with Him.

2 Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
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John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
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Old 10-03-2012, 12:52   #14
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Grace jones got out of that business years ago...

You might check with this Grace, Grace Potter.

Religious Issues

Much cuter too.
Yummy... she can save me anyday.

She can save my brains out.

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Old 10-03-2012, 14:34   #15
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Discount Vic?
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Old 10-03-2012, 15:55   #16
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Yummy... she can save me anyday.

She can save my brains out.

She looks like she'd be cool...

Not all hoitey toitey buy me something, take me to dinner girl. More like the hang out at home and have a few drinks girl.
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Old 10-03-2012, 16:00   #17
Vic Hays
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Discount Vic?
Yes, the discount.

If you have entered into a New Covenant relationship with God, you will see Him as Savior and Lord.

Some people are willing to go as far as honoring 9 commandments. They would like a 10 percent discount.



Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Luke 6:47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:
Luke 6:48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.
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Old 10-03-2012, 16:41   #18
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Yes, the discount.

If you have entered into a New Covenant relationship with God, you will see Him as Savior and Lord.

Some people are willing to go as far as honoring 9 commandments. They would like a 10 percent discount.



Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Luke 6:47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:
Luke 6:48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.
As Jesus had so eloquently expanded on the subject during his Sermon on the Mount, it appears that there are none who have honored all 10 of the commandments.

So perhaps when I arrive I will see St. Peter doing the discount double check dance. You had better hope that you do too!
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Old 10-03-2012, 18:40   #19
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Yes, we are always in God's love. Jesus sacrifice allows this temporarily if we do not grieve way the Spirit of God. God expects us to perfect holiness by our association with Him.
(Emphasis mine)

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Those who expect a discount expect to get saved with their sins instead of from their sins.
(So that I don't tick anybody off, I intend the following as helpful correction, to align your view with a historically orthodox position. I believe you're a little wide of the mark here, and I offer the following as guidance, not criticism. Your passion and sincerity is worthy of Apollos, but I think you may have been misled somewhere in your walk.)

Yes, you are saved from your sin, but you are also saved in your sin. We can't go 5 minutes without sinning.

Your Theology sounds strangely Pelagian. Pelagius (as you know) claimed we could live sinless lives, once saved. He was condemned by several chuch councils (Nicea in 418, I believe, was the last. Theologian Roger Nicole said "We are born semi-Pelagian in our thinking" : that is, it is natural for us to believe that we contribute something -- even the smallest thing -- to our salvation. And it is wrong to believe that. The Reformers ultimately condemned the semi-Pelagian view at the Synod of Dort in 1618/19, as the North African councils condemned Pelagianism in 415 and 418.

I'll pull a pin on a grenade here and say that it is possible to be genuinely saved, to go on and sin like a sailor, and still inherit eternal life with hardly a hiccup. (We won't, of course, live that way if you're saved, but it's possible.) You appear to be underestimating what the sacrifice of Christ did for you. It did EVERYthing. The only thing we do believers is exercise the faith that was given to us as a gift. We contributed nothing; if our confidence is based in any way on our performance, we have not believed the gospel. If we're saved, we are 100% righteous now and forever, and there will never appear so much as a speck of dust on that white robe, no matter what we do. If we live like hell, we may not live long, and our reward will be correspondingly meager -- wood, hay, and stubble -- but our performance, good or bad, is never an issue with our justification. Ever. It's an issue with our growth, but not our position. Our 'holiness' is imputed to us by the Lord; lock, stock, and barrel. The personal outworking of that holiness, no matter how hard we try, will be feeble, inadequate, and more blemished than we can imagine -- even more, if we think for a minute that we can attain some kind of holiness in ourselves if we only try hard enough.

Nice thread topic though.

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Old 10-03-2012, 21:40   #20
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As Jesus had so eloquently expanded on the subject during his Sermon on the Mount, it appears that there are none who have honored all 10 of the commandments.

So perhaps when I arrive I will see St. Peter doing the discount double check dance. You had better hope that you do too!
The Bible says we are all sinners. Jesus died for my sins. That does not give us an excuse to continue in sin. I praise God that I have been given a choice to choose to follow Jesus or to remain desperately sinful and lost.

1 Peter 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
1 Peter 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
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