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Old 11-09-2013, 17:13   #1
Sharkey
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Cops and murses....

Are there any folks here who don't know what a Maxpedition bag is?

Would you use that as a reason for a stop if a person was wearing one and walking across a parking lot into the mall?

Yeah, there is a reason why I am asking.......
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Old 11-09-2013, 17:25   #2
Steve in PA
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No.....................
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Old 11-09-2013, 17:36   #3
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Murse-male nurse? Or murse - male purse?
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Old 11-09-2013, 18:30   #4
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Here in Texas, no since it may be his lawful concealed carry and/or off-duty. There would have to be more to stop and detain someone who is just carrying one.
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Old 11-09-2013, 19:20   #5
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Reason for a stop, in and of itself? No.

Reason to look hard and see if there was something else calling for a stop? Yeah, maybe. That depends on the totality of the circumstances.
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Old 11-09-2013, 19:54   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nursetim View Post
Murse-male nurse? Or murse - male purse?
Well if a guy was carrying a male nurse across the parking lot, THAT would be interesting.

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Here in Texas, no since it may be his lawful concealed carry and/or off-duty. There would have to be more to stop and detain someone who is just carrying one.
That would be my thought and yes, we are dealing with TX law.

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Reason for a stop, in and of itself? No.

Reason to look hard and see if there was something else calling for a stop? Yeah, maybe. That depends on the totality of the circumstances.
The only other circumstance is that an unarmed security guard radioed the officer working OT at the mall that the subject had his magazine fall out of the murse. That would be a lie, but even if it was true, would a magazine falling out be enough reasonable suspicion for the stop? There would be no other circumstances. Subject dressed in black dept. store cargo pants and a long sleeve polo shirt.
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Old 11-09-2013, 20:44   #7
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Well if a guy was carrying a male nurse across the parking lot, THAT would be interesting.



That would be my thought and yes, we are dealing with TX law.



The only other circumstance is that an unarmed security guard radioed the officer working OT at the mall that the subject had his magazine fall out of the murse. That would be a lie, but even if it was true, would a magazine falling out be enough reasonable suspicion for the stop? There would be no other circumstances. Subject dressed in black dept. store cargo pants and a long sleeve polo shirt.
In Arizona, where we have no-permit CCW, I'm gonna say "no".
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Old 11-09-2013, 20:58   #8
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The only reasonable articulable suspicion in this case is that he's armed. You got that from the report of the dropped mag, and really even just the Maxpedition bag itself. Might be enough for a stop in NYC, DC, Chicago where legal concealed carry is nearly nonexistent. Ever find a bad guy carrying in a holster, let alone a murse? Don't bad guys mostly just mexican carry? So absent something other than being armed (is there a policy in the mall against concealed carry? Isn't there supposed to be a 30.06 sign prominently displayed if that's the case? Even if the sign doesn't have force of law, if its displayed you might be able to generate RAS for trespassing, armed trespass?)

Stop for a chat, a consensual stop to look for something to go further? Absolutely, that's always good. Absent some other suspicious behavior you can articulate, don't think you can even justify a Terry stop. IF and ONLY IF you had something indicating potentially criminal activity, you've got way more than enough for a Terry stop/frisk as he's probably armed. But just being armed isn't enough.

I'm studying this now, or I wouldn't bother chiming in, wanted to see how close I am.

Randy

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Old 11-09-2013, 21:03   #9
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I sling a man bag. Mexican/American Indian motif in dark brown leather and tastefully done. It's just big enough to hold my sun glasses and my reading glasses. Or a G17 with a couple of spare mags.

Just last night we had with us a "person of interest" who worked for Coach. You bet I took the opportunity to discuss with this person about leather quality and workmanship, etc..., and about purses, bags and women's shoes.
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Old 11-09-2013, 21:04   #10
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Nope.
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Old 11-09-2013, 21:24   #11
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I'm a nale murse, but have no idea what a maxpedition is.
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Old 11-09-2013, 21:25   #12
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Here is the deal:

As I walk across the lot, the bike patrol security asks about my bag. I tell them I carry my stuff in it. He then asks if the mag pouch is binoculars and I say no. When he asks what it is, I tell him. He then asks if I have a CHL and I said I don't need one. He then asked if I was a cop and as I walked off, I said yes.

100 ft later, a cop stops me at the entrance. I tell him that I'm guessing security called you. He asks where I am from and what's in my bag. I ask him what is the basis for the stop and he tells me security says my magazine fell out. I tell him that is a lie and a gun is indeed in the bag and that should tell you that I am either a CHL holder or a cop. He claims he has never seen a Maxpedition bag and that when he carries off duty his gun is concealed. I then replied that so is mine.
He asks if I am a cop and I say I am retired. I ask him if he wants to see my HR218 card and when he says yes, I pull it out in addition to my CHL. He then proceeds to tell me if I didn't have a poor attitude, this would go much faster. I tell him if he had a reason to stop me, I wouldn't have a poor attitude. When he returns my creds. I ask if the contact is over so I can go back to shopping and minding my own business.

It just really pissed me off. Granted, I haven't worked patrol in 15 years but I was in uniform a year ago and I know how to treat contacts properly. The issue I have is what would have happened if I wasn't a former cop?

For the metromess members here, it was a metro agency where you have to have a BA to be hired. I hear the Cowboys also play there.
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Old 11-09-2013, 21:43   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharkey View Post
Here is the deal:

As I walk across the lot, the bike patrol security asks about my bag. I tell them I carry my stuff in it. He then asks if the mag pouch is binoculars and I say no. When he asks what it is, I tell him. He then asks if I have a CHL and I said I don't need one. He then asked if I was a cop and as I walked off, I said yes.

100 ft later, a cop stops me at the entrance. I tell him that I'm guessing security called you. He asks where I am from and what's in my bag. I ask him what is the basis for the stop and he tells me security says my magazine fell out. I tell him that is a lie and a gun is indeed in the bag and that should tell you that I am either a CHL holder or a cop. He claims he has never seen a Maxpedition bag and that when he carries off duty his gun is concealed. I then replied that so is mine.
He asks if I am a cop and I say I am retired. I ask him if he wants to see my HR218 card and when he says yes, I pull it out in addition to my CHL. He then proceeds to tell me if I didn't have a poor attitude, this would go much faster. I tell him if he had a reason to stop me, I wouldn't have a poor attitude. When he returns my creds. I ask if the contact is over so I can go back to shopping and minding my own business.

It just really pissed me off. Granted, I haven't worked patrol in 15 years but I was in uniform a year ago and I know how to treat contacts properly. The issue I have is what would have happened if I wasn't a former cop?

For the metromess members here, it was a metro agency where you have to have a BA to be hired. I hear the Cowboys also play there.
2 points:

1. Open carry would have prevented this.

2. You should have been screaming "am I being detained, or am I free to go?" over and over again. That would have been awesome! It seems to work on Youtube.









































































































For realz tho: complain on the liar whacker that tried to jam you up.
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Old 11-09-2013, 22:00   #14
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My .02 cents is why give the Cop any grief? You know security called him and security probably blew it out of proportion, but he had to go with the info given. With recent mall shootings and incidents you know the Police are going to be on a bit higher alert. With you being a retired cop, the first thing you ask him is "what's the basis for the stop?" Really? Was it that hard to just say, "I'm a retired copper and security was giving me the 3rd degree so I walked away. You wanna see any creds, by the way, how ya doing today?". Would that have been that difficult?
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Old 11-09-2013, 23:11   #15
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Was he wearing his hat and did he ask to create joinder? Oh, is your wife hot? Because I hear gas prices went down so he can follow her for 7 miles.
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Old 11-09-2013, 23:16   #16
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What is the law for TX and the policy of that mall for allowing CCW?

I ask because since CCW is so rare in CA that the law is very loose as to where you can carry AND hardly anyplace restricts it. I don't think I have ever seen a "no weapons" outside of court and jail.

I could see if they have a no weapons policy and the law allows them to confront people they believe might be armed.
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Old 11-10-2013, 00:30   #17
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It's all Obama's fault.
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Old 11-10-2013, 00:47   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharkey View Post
Are there any folks here who don't know what a Maxpedition bag is?

Would you use that as a reason for a stop if a person was wearing one and walking across a parking lot into the mall?

Yeah, there is a reason why I am asking.......
I don't think it's a reason for a stop since they ruled, back in the 70's or 80's, that you can't arrest people for being gay.
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Old 11-10-2013, 01:28   #19
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To the OP toughen up. You are a retired LEO, act like it. Conversation with cop should have been: Cop Do you have a gun You yes here are my creds also Cop good rangers lead the way.
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Old 11-10-2013, 02:43   #20
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My .02 cents is why give the Cop any grief? You know security called him and security probably blew it out of proportion, but he had to go with the info given. With recent mall shootings and incidents you know the Police are going to be on a bit higher alert. With you being a retired cop, the first thing you ask him is "what's the basis for the stop?" Really? Was it that hard to just say, "I'm a retired copper and security was giving me the 3rd degree so I walked away. You wanna see any creds, by the way, how ya doing today?". Would that have been that difficult?
This. I don't see why you would want to make his job any harder than it has to be. I'm sure you didn't appreciate it when people made your job difficult when you were on the job, did you? Seems pointless and petty to me.
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