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Old 11-12-2012, 15:32   #281
Matthew Courtney
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phil evans View Post
i'd really like to know what type of high contrast target you are using?
i'm using nra SR-1 target centers at 100 yards and with my old eyes this target seems best for contrast at the 6 o'clock hold.

i've shot iron and i want to do more of it to be better accomplished.

Those are good targets, Phil. I use a globe front sight sized so that I can barely see a little bit of light all the way around the bull at the given distance. The slightest variation in my hold causes part of that light around the bull to vanish. Only when the sight picture is perfect do I see a halo of light all the way around.

The thing that makes magnified optics preferable for many is that they allow a shooter to more easily see a disturbance to the sight picture during the trigger press. This allows the same with zero parallax or other optical distortion. It can also be a great training aid. Once you have the bull centered in the globe, relax. If the sight picture shifts, you could have more bone support. Only when you can relax without shifting the sight picture do you have maximum bone support. This is where one can really fine tune his sling technique. Good shooting!
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Last edited by Matthew Courtney; 11-12-2012 at 15:42..
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Old 11-13-2012, 04:34   #282
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I know for a fact I can shoot much better groups with my irons than with a Red Dot. My Aimpoints are all 2 MOA but that are not precision sights (depending on how you define precision).

But I know for a fact that I can outshoot my red dots with my irons on a slow fire black bullseye from a rest or prone unsupported. Irons allow for as much precision as you know how to get from them--and that can be quite a bit if you know what you are doing.

Now go to a more practical timed run and gun application the Red Dot wins because its accurate enough but its also very quick and somewhat forgiving at 50 yards and under.

I use my red dot for 50 yrds and under and in low light shooting. Other than that I use my iron sights for distance and percision shots.
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:55   #283
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Does anyone have a problem with a magnified optic( lets say a 4x ACOG) trying to adjust to close range and how do you all over come it.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:39   #284
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Does anyone have a problem with a magnified optic( lets say a 4x ACOG) trying to adjust to close range and how do you all over come it.
At close range, it’s important to be able to shoot with both eyes open. Look up “Bindon aiming concept”. I’ve used a couple ACOGs, 3 ˝ and 4X. At 25 yards and out, they’re great. At room clearing distances, I found them less than optimal. I would prefer a RDS or low power variable that can be cranked down to 2X or below.
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:22   #285
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The Bindon Aiming Concept works great with some practice. Sometimes 4x is a bit much magnification when one is first learning to master the technique and in some conditions an ACOG reticle is not bright enough for one whose eyes and brain are not conditioned to the concept. I use a Leupold 2-7 with Firedot illumination to teach BAC. I start with 2x and the firedot rather bright and gradually increase magnification and decrease brightness. Most shooters can get up to 4-5x magnification using the technique while picking up targets and shooting nearly as fast(.1.-.2 seconds slower for the first shot, same split times)as with an RDS.
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Old 11-14-2012, 13:28   #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phil evans View Post
i'd really like to know what type of high contrast target you are using?
i'm using nra SR-1 target centers at 100 yards and with my old eyes this target seems best for contrast at the 6 o'clock hold.

i've shot iron and i want to do more of it to be better accomplished.
Ever try IDPA torso silhouette targets at 100 yards?
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Old 11-14-2012, 14:10   #287
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The Bindon Aiming Concept works great with some practice.
My first "red dots" were the old Armson OEG's, which is where I believe this concept began, or at least got its name. You had a red, fiber optic dot on a black field (you also had a tritium dot in low light) and if you didnt shoot both eyes open, you only saw a red dot on a black field. Once you got used to them, they worked great, even out at 100 yards or so.

These days, I still use the concept with my Aimpoints. I just close the front cover and carry on. This also works well when you are going back and forth from light to dark areas, as you can set the dot to a comfortable brightness level, and it will remain constant. You dont lose the dot in bright light, and you arent overwhelmed by it in low light.

Quote:
Ever try IDPA torso silhouette targets at 100 yards?
Yup, and beyond too.

AK with red dot at 100...
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AK with irons at 200....
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Not just the "politically correct" targets either.....

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Most people I know or talk to, base their skills on how they shoot off a bench, shooting at a contrasting bullseye type target, at their leisure. Put targets with no fixed aiming point, of varying sizes (ie, just head and shoulders, etc), at varying ranges, and shoot from field positions, and its amazing how people dont seem to be able to shoot near as well as the tell you they can. What you can do at any time, "on demand", is what your true skill levels are, and that goes for whatever sighting system youre given to do it with. If you cant pick it up and put it to work, reasonably well, then you need to work on a few things.
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Old 11-14-2012, 14:10   #288
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Those targets ^ are all politically correct
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Old 11-14-2012, 14:18   #289
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Hello:
i've got 75 year old eyes, resolution not so good,
need targets with severe contrast.
i'll try anything, even the cardboard silhouette.
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Old 11-14-2012, 14:22   #290
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Originally Posted by ak103k View Post
My first "red dots" were the old Armson OEG's, which is where I believe this concept began, or at least got its name. You had a red, fiber optic dot on a black field (you also had a tritium dot in low light) and if you didnt shoot both eyes open, you only saw a red dot on a black field. Once you got used to them, they worked great, even out at 100 yards or so.

These days, I still use the concept with my Aimpoints. I just close the front cover and carry on. This also works well when you are going back and forth from light to dark areas, as you can set the dot to a comfortable brightness level, and it will remain constant. You dont lose the dot in bright light, and you arent overwhelmed by it in low light.


Yup, and beyond too.

AK with red dot at 100...
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AK with irons at 200....
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Not just the "politically correct" targets either.....

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Most people I know or talk to, base their skills on how they shoot off a bench, shooting at a contrasting bullseye type target, at their leisure. Put targets with no fixed aiming point, of varying sizes (ie, just head and shoulders, etc), at varying ranges, and shoot from field positions, and its amazing how people dont seem to be able to shoot near as well as the tell you they can. What you can do at any time, "on demand", is what your true skill levels are, and that goes for whatever sighting system youre given to do it with. If you cant pick it up and put it to work, reasonably well, then you need to work on a few things.
Did you have to use "Lock-Tite" on your Aimpoint?
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Old 11-14-2012, 14:46   #291
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I put a small drop on each mounting screw, and on the Weaver type screws on the rings that use them. Then again, I use it on pretty much anything gun related when it comes to securing things.
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Old 11-14-2012, 14:48   #292
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Those targets ^ are all politically correct
Hey, I agree, but many ranges wont allow them these days. Luckily, I dont have to shoot at one like that anymore.
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Old 11-14-2012, 15:18   #293
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I put a small drop on each mounting screw, and on the Weaver type screws on the rings that use them. Then again, I use it on pretty much anything gun related when it comes to securing things.
Yea, I bought a cheap BSA to see if I liked the "red dots". It doesn't hold zero, must constantly re-tighten. Probably will get the Aimpoint PRO.............. DOC
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Old 11-15-2012, 04:56   #294
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Good choice.
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Old 11-16-2012, 10:20   #295
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My first "red dots" were the old Armson OEG's, which is where I believe this concept began, or at least got its name.
Weaver Qwik-Point from the 1960's is probaly the earliest 'red dot' type sighting system. I had one on an 870 deer gun.

Large, bulky, and not that great.
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:15   #296
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Now that you mention it, I vaguely remember the Quick Points, although I never used one.

The Armsons worked very well in most instances. My biggest complaint was "twilight" or shadows, or anywhere you went from light to dark. The fiber optic worked best in bright light, but wasnt the greatest in low light. The tritium was small, and hard to see except in almost complete darkness, or at least your eyes needed to be adjusted to it somewhat to pick it up. On either side of that though, they worked great.

I had mine mounted on HK claw mounts and used them on G3's/HK91's and my MP5, up until the red dots started showing up. They were not bulky or cumbersome in the least, and smaller than the Aimpoint M2's.

Once I got my first Aimpoints, I cant say I ever really missed the OEG's. Even though the Aimpoints are battery dependent (which is really a non issue, especially these days), they make up for the OEG's deficiencies. I still use the "concept" on a pretty regular basis with the cover closed on my Aimpoints though.
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Old 11-17-2012, 06:09   #297
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Yep, never know when they batteries will crap out.
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Old 11-18-2012, 07:16   #298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K. Foster View Post
At close range, it’s important to be able to shoot with both eyes open. Look up “Bindon aiming concept”. I’ve used a couple ACOGs, 3 ˝ and 4X. At 25 yards and out, they’re great. At room clearing distances, I found them less than optimal. I would prefer a RDS or low power variable that can be cranked down to 2X or below.

Same here I used the ACOG in Iraq. I would have rathered an optic as durable that could have gone down to 2X.
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:45   #299
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Originally Posted by ak103k View Post
I put a small drop on each mounting screw, and on the Weaver type screws on the rings that use them. Then again, I use it on pretty much anything gun related when it comes to securing things.

Put just enough or you may have problems later on.
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:27   #300
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Lube and LocTite seem to be big issue for some people. I guess they never heard the jingle in the old Brylcreem ads.

Seriously, all you need is a "dab", it doesnt take much.
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