Survey: Iron sights - Page 6

Warp · 10-22-2012, 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&P15T

:

At worst we're talking about HD/SD, where a very babied, safe queen of an AR will be used.

You might baby your safe queen HD gun, but plenty of others do not.

M&P15T · 10-22-2012, 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp

You might baby your safe queen HD gun, but plenty of others do not.

As ususal, such discussions sort posters into two basic groups.

There are those that take ARs very, very seriously, as if combat (for a civilian AR owner) is always something lurking just around the next corner.

Then there are those that use ARs for fun, recreation and basic HD/SD, and take them less seriously.

Those two groups are basically never going to agree on topics like these. And the same basic arguments sprout up in thread after thread.

Let's just agree to disagree, such arguing is completely pointless. If you want to be uber serious about your AR and how you use it, fine, just don't expect that everyone else does. Doing so can end much strife around here.

***Matthew Courtney*** · 10-22-2012, 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&P15T

This isn't combat.

At worst we're talking about HD/SD, where a very babied, safe queen of an AR will be used. No need to worry about RDSs failing.

If you do not understand that using deadly force to defend one's family against an invasion of one's home is combat, than you do not have a sufficient grasp of the subject matter to be having a serious conversation about it.

M&P15T · 10-22-2012, 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp

You might baby your safe queen HD gun, but plenty of others do not.

Plenty of others? Sure, that post here.

Fact is that the VAST majority of AR owners are nowhere near as serious about owning and using ARs as some posters here.

Hell, the VAST majority of AR owners don't even belong to web-boards like G.T., M4Carbine and the like. Most just use them for fun, recreation, and basic SD/HD.

mjkeat · 10-22-2012, 16:33

You hit the nail on the head there. You have it all figured out. Self Defense isn't a serious issue, requires no tactical awareness, or firearm proficiency at all.

What's basic self defense. Are there different levels?

Vast majority? What's your source?

You know what would stop the useless back and forth? Staying in ones lane.

***Matthew Courtney*** · 10-22-2012, 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&P15T

Or, you could choose to address this from the opposite direction, if we're going to focus on HD/SD and what people choose to practice with when they go to the range.

Cheek weld means nothing for using an RDS at close ranges for HD/SD, where speed is king. So, don't bother wasting time and money with irons, focus on training with the RDS you would actually use.

Worried about finding the red dot quickly? Practice it. No matter what, you'll be far, faaar faster aquiring your target with a RDS than irons. Hell, the uber competetive AR gaming shooters don't even seem to use any cheek weld at all.

If find it a bit disconcerting that some fail to understand that most people's time and money for shooting is not unlimited, and is best utilized by focusing on what you would really do in an HD/SD situation, if that is what we're to focus this discussion on.

There is not a police force or military unit on the planet that tries to teach gunfighting techniques to folks before they teach basic firearms safety and marksmanship. Not one. But hey, maybe all of them are doing it wrong and they could save time and money by doing it your way. Just start slinging lead while looking for the RDS. No need for a cheeck weld that makes it easy to find that red dot every time. What an antiquated approach.

M&P15T · 10-22-2012, 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Courtney

If you do not understand that using deadly force to defend one's family against an invasion of one's home is combat, than you do not have a sufficient grasp of the subject matter to be having a serious conversation about it.

That's understandable.

Doesn't mean I'm gonna head to basic training to get ready for it.

Sorry, my life does not revolve around fearing the world around me, to the point where I think I need to be ready for combat at the drop of a hat.

Ya know, like....well, like most normal people.

One way you could look at it, is that the world is not seperated into two distinct and opposite groups. There is not only uber-combat-ready types, and meek, sheeple, victims-to-be types.

There are huge chunks of the population that fall somewhere in between. Folks that can defend themselves and their families well enough to handle the majority of possible negative situations, but don't get into the COMBAT, uber-ninja mentality.

You wanna be ready for anything and everything? Great, spend what time, effort and money you feel is appropriate. I myself don't feel the need to be ready to fight off hoardes of terrorists trying to break down my front door. I myself feel comfortable in knowing I could handle the basic bad situations.

You do what you want to do, I'll do what I want to do.

M&P15T · 10-22-2012, 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Courtney

There is not a police force or military unit on the planet that tries to teach gunfighting techniques to folks before they teach basic firearms safety and marksmanship. Not one. But hey, maybe all of them are doing it wrong and they could save time and money by doing it your way. Just start slinging lead while looking for the RDS. No need for a cheeck weld that makes it easy to find that red dot every time. What an antiquated approach.

If you feel the need to be ready for combat, or gunfighting, however you want to define it, it's your call.

mjkeat · 10-22-2012, 17:00

Thinking you can handle a situation and being able to are not one in the same. Under stress I have never seen anyone rise to the occassion. I doubt anyone here is an exception.

M&P15T · 10-22-2012, 17:04

I find it funny that I don't find the same strife in other areas, like the General Firearms Forum, as is seen here.

Only here in the BRF are there so many people that are so passionate about being ready for anything and everything. The AR15, being the current Military go-to small arm, definitely attracts people that can take it as nothing less than their sword and shield.

Posting in this thread shows that there are several folks here that think that you are either an AR Master 3rd degree, or you're nothing....well, less than nothing, really. Like there is only black, or white, and nothing in-between.

Funny, but many, many firearms owners manage to defend themselves and their family with nothing more than an old family shotgun, .38 snubby, Grandpa's .45 he brought home from the war, or an el-cheapo whatever-you-have-at-hand....

And most of them never went to a combat/gunfighting training course, or served in the Military. Many folks manage to make it through tough HD/SD situations without an AR and combat assault training. Hang out in the GNG lounge a bit. Stories of un-trained people without ARs managing to defend themselves, their homes and family are posted all the time.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/10/19...ected-burglar/

Hell, it happens everyday in this country. Little old ladies that use a walker shoot intruders. CCWers that can barely load their snubbies manage to stay alive and pop some caps into B.G.s. Even children defend themselves from intruders using Dad's night-stand pistol....hell, a first hand account of that happening was just posted in the GNG Lounge. And I'm pretty sure that kid hadn't been through the SEAL assaulter course yet.

Ya'll do what you think you need to do, and stop thinking that it's necessary for everyone else to think and act the same way.

mjkeat · 10-22-2012, 17:38

It's funny the amount of people satisfied w/ managing to get by or crossing their fingers and hoping to make it through. If managing to stay alive is alright w/ you then so be it. Natural selection comes to mind. If you want to swing the odds in your favor familiarize. You will not, repeat, will not rise to the occassion. Luck and or managing to come out on top should not be the goal for any red blooded man.

It reminds me of the difference in the team my son plays for and the ones they play against. His team is a, have fun and socialize type of team. The others have obviously prepared to win as they completely destroy my sons team week after week. They may be in it for the fun but the other teams are not. You may keep firearms for fun but not everyone does. You don't choose your opposition so prepare for the greatest denominator not the weakest link.

M&P15T · 10-22-2012, 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjkeat

It's funny the amount of people satisfied w/ managing to get by or crossing their fingers and hoping to make it through. If managing to stay alive is alright w/ you then so be it. Natural selection comes to mind. If you want to swing the odds in your favor familiarize. You will not, repeat, will not rise to the occassion. Luck and or managing to come out on top should not be the goal for any red blooded man.

It reminds me of the difference in the team my son plays for and the ones they play against. His team is a, have fun and socialize type of team. The others have obviously prepared to win as they completely destroy my sons team week after week. They may be in it for the fun but the other teams are not. You may keep firearms for fun but not everyone does. You don't choose your opposition so prepare for the greatest denominator not the weakest link.

Yeah, dude, managing to stay alive is defintely alright with me.

Again, you do what you feel you need to do, the rest of us will somehow manage to get buy. Best idea is to not piss off any jihadists, drug dealers, rabid pimps, Dr. Lector, those types of folks.

I made it through Detroit, and that was as bad as it's ever likely to get.

Warp · 10-22-2012, 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&P15T

Hell, the VAST majority of AR owners don't even belong to web-boards like G.T., M4Carbine and the like. Most just use them for fun, recreation, and basic SD/HD.

I notice you didn't list "babied safe queen" in there.

M&P15T · 10-22-2012, 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp

I notice you didn't list "babied safe queen" in there.

Yeah....I used it earlier.

Kinda figured it was just a given at this point.

Not a lot of civilian AR owners jumping out of planes or taking part in MOUT operations.

Take care of your weapon and it will most likely work should you need it. There can be no absolutes, nothing man made is 100% perfect.

***faawrenchbndr*** · 10-22-2012, 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&P15T

I made it through Detroit, and that was as bad as it's ever likely to get.

Take a trip to East St Louis.

Warp · 10-22-2012, 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&P15T

Yeah....I used it earlier.

Kinda figured it was just a given at this point.

Not a lot of civilian AR owners jumping out of planes or taking part in MOUT operations.

Take care of your weapon and it will most likely work should you need it. There are no absolutes, nothing is 100% certain.

As long as you are happy with your your babied safe queen AR, it's all good.

M&P15T · 10-22-2012, 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by faawrenchbndr

Take a trip to East St Louis.

I lived in Detroit, no need to visit another **** hole. There's too many dotting the landscape of this country.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp

As long as you are happy with your your babied safe queen AR, it's all good.

Well, I'm happy with it because I maintain it well, and I don't knock it around or abuse it un-necessarily. She's got thousands of 100% reliable rounds through her, and that's as sure as I can be. Speaking of which, she's still needing some love after my trip to the range last Tuesday.

I can't imagine how much of a let-down it would be to purchase an expensive, everything you want AR, and find it's un-reliable. Jeeze, that would really be a pisser.

mjkeat · 10-22-2012, 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&P15T

I made it through Detroit, and that was as bad as it's ever likely to get.

"As bad as it's ever LIKELY to get." Were you a victim of a home invasion, sexual assault, an assault of any kind? Did you have to take a life to avoid loosing yours?

M&P15T · 10-22-2012, 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjkeat

"As bad as it's ever LIKELY to get." Were you a victim of a home invasion, sexual assault, an assault of any kind? Did you have to take a life to avoid loosing yours?

3 break-in and robberies, never when I was home.

I consider never having to pull the trigger (pulled my pistol 4 times thinking I would) a major positive. I'm not looking to take a life if it can be avoided.

mjkeat · 10-22-2012, 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&P15T

Not a lot of civilian AR owners .... taking part in MOUT operations.

Take a second and look up from your monitor. What do you see?

**NeverMore1701** · 10-22-2012, 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjkeat

Take a second and look up from your monitor. What do you see?

Two chicks doing it on the TV. What's that got to do with anything?

M&P15T · 10-22-2012, 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjkeat

Take a second and look up from your monitor. What do you see?

47" T.V. with the basball game on. Sanfran is up 1-0.

To the left is my cat licking his own ass. Kinds grosse, he slurps when he does it. Diggin for all he's worth. They should make ass-flavored cat food.

Guess he likes a clean ass.

M&P15T · 10-22-2012, 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeverMore1701

Two chicks doing it on the TV. What's that got to do with anything?

Damn, that's a better answer than mine!!!

You watching Skinemax?

mjkeat · 10-22-2012, 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&P15T

3 break-in and robberies, never when I was home.

I consider never having to pull the trigger (pulled my pistol 4 times thinking I would) a major positive. I'm not looking to take a life if it can be avoided.

You fail to grasp the point. If that time ever comes you'll be thinking of this conversation wishing you would have listened to those with experience instead of arguing your "i read" or "i believe" and "i think".

Not trying to be a jerk about it but you need to take a step back and listen to those who have experienced the things you only encounter in your sleep.

There's always someone who knows more or has been through more. This goes for everyone.

mjkeat · 10-22-2012, 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeverMore1701

Two chicks doing it on the TV. What's that got to do with anything?

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&P15T

47" T.V. with the basball game on. Sanfran is up 1-0.

To the left is my cat licking his own ass. Kinds grosse, he slurps when he does it. Diggin for all he's worth. They should make ass-flavored cat food.

Guess he likes a clean ass.

Do you two know what MOUT is? I guess you already answered that question w/ your above responces.