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Old 10-11-2012, 00:23   #251
oldman11
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2 Points:

I have hunted all my life and have never seen a reason to carry a handgun in the woods or back country. Sure sign of someone who is uncomfortable there or just trying to play make believe.

And. When I carry in a car, the gun is unloaded and packed in a case.
Well golly little goody two shoes. I can see that you haven't been in some of the bush country that some of us have. And I'm sure that helps immensely to carry a gun packed in a case in your vehicle.
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Old 10-11-2012, 00:25   #252
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The states make their own laws. If you actually read them before you go and do not like them, stay away.
So individual states can, say, deny women the right to vote?
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Old 10-11-2012, 00:32   #253
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I guess I just expected that instead of berating some guy for not checking/following some state laws regarding the exercising of his natural right to self defense, more HERE would decry the injustice of the laws of the state of Ohio making him a criminal.......for simply exercising his natural right to self defense.

Perhaps we have more Zumbo types among us than I thought.
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Old 10-11-2012, 00:39   #254
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There is no injustice.



Nowhere is it written, that you have the right to carry anytime, anyplace you feel you want to.

All of your rights, every, single one is only yours, so long as you exercise it, within the confines of the laws of the USA.


He chose to break those laws, and now he pays the consequences. Its not injustice, this is the VERY definition of justice.



That you have some warped sense of entitlement, does not constitute, immoral or unconstitutional.
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Old 10-11-2012, 00:41   #255
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well i travel up to PA quite alot for wife to visit family and we live in NC , and there is always a handgun between the seats loaded for anything . and i have been pulled over time to time

and we have to go thru a small 18 mile stretch of maryland on the way up . i dont give a rats ass what moral crap or law the state has , im gonna protect myself and family from point A to point B

YMMV . my family will not be victim because of some stupid ass law in some stupid ass state

also one thing ive learned there are people here claiming to be leo on GT , but are not .but thats for a different day
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Old 10-11-2012, 00:55   #256
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Originally Posted by AK_Stick View Post
There is no injustice.



Nowhere is it written, that you have the right to carry anytime, anyplace you feel you want to.

All of your rights, every, single one is only yours, so long as you exercise it, within the confines of the laws of the USA.


He chose to break those laws, and now he pays the consequences. Its not injustice, this is the VERY definition of justice.



That you have some warped sense of entitlement, does not constitute, immoral or unconstitutional.
The law he broke was essentially failure to have a permit.

In your view, natural and/or Constitutional rights are dependent upon a permit?

Last edited by certifiedfunds; 10-11-2012 at 01:02..
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:01   #257
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There are many times where your rights, are dependent upon a permit.


If you don't think so, try holding a rally or march without a permit, and see how fast your "right to free speech" gets infringed on.


Yes, carrying a concealed, loaded firearm in Ohio, is dependent upon a permit.


That you feel that is unconstitutional infringement, does not mean that it is.
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:11   #258
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Originally Posted by AK_Stick View Post
There are many times where your rights, are dependent upon a permit.


If you don't think so, try holding a rally or march without a permit, and see how fast your "right to free speech" gets infringed on.


Yes, carrying a concealed, loaded firearm in Ohio, is dependent upon a permit.


That you feel that is unconstitutional infringement, does not mean that it is.
Pathetic. Honestly pathetic. Not just you but the many people here who share your view. The antis have won. Its just a matter of time now.
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:21   #259
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Yes. No one is as smart as you. We are all idiots.
There are a lot of people smarter than me. But they are also counterbalanced by the many who have been educated well above the level of their intelligence.


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I suspect you took a job as cop because you lacked the intelligence to get a better job.
I suspect you are overoptimistic about how smart you think you are.

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Shall we continue the insults that you started or will go go cry to Russ???
I have never felt the need to cry to the moderators about anyone's posts.

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And you have shown your bias against critical thinking with your won little cops are god crusade.
I am guessing you THINK your posts show critical thinking?

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Old 10-11-2012, 01:22   #260
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Calm down peace warrior, just because you believe something works one way doesn't mean it does.

This is America, if you don't like the laws, lobby to have them changed. You have that ability. If you can convince enough people thats how it should be, that's how it'll be. Until then though, the reality is that it's perfectly constitutional and moral to legislate rights.
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:35   #261
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Calm down peace warrior, just because you believe something works one way doesn't mean it does.
I think the real issue is the simple fact that some people think their personal interpretations of the Constitution are valid simply because that is the way they want things to be.

An if you won't drink their kool- aid then you are the enemy.
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Old 10-11-2012, 05:39   #262
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Originally Posted by AK_Stick View Post
There are many times where your rights, are dependent upon a permit.


If you don't think so, try holding a rally or march without a permit, and see how fast your "right to free speech" gets infringed on.


Yes, carrying a concealed, loaded firearm in Ohio, is dependent upon a permit.


That you feel that is unconstitutional infringement, does not mean that it is.
One issue discussed in this thread is that failure to get a permit should not result in a felony.
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Old 10-11-2012, 06:34   #263
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and we have to go thru a small 18 mile stretch of maryland on the way up . i dont give a rats ass what moral crap or law the state has , im gonna protect myself and family from point A to point B

YMMV . my family will not be victim because of some stupid ass law in some stupid ass state
Then you are rolling the dice. I also go through that patch myself BTW. But you at least know that you are rolling the dice and you understand what might happen if you get stopped there.
I've tried to find ways to avoid Md. I freakin HATE going through that state.
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Old 10-11-2012, 06:51   #264
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There are many times where your rights, are dependent upon a permit.
....
Regardless of all other aspects of this issue, you are wrong here.


A permit is permission to do something.
It defines an activity as a privilege dependent upon that permission.

Privilege is antitheses to natural right.
If a privilege can be granted, it can also be withheld or withdrawn.

How is a right ever dependent upon permission?
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Old 10-11-2012, 06:53   #265
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I think the real issue is the simple fact that some people think their personal interpretations of the Constitution are valid simply because that is the way they want things to be.

An if you won't drink their kool- aid then you are the enemy.


"shall not be infringed".

in·fringe/inˈfrinj/
Verb: Actively break the terms of (a law, agreement, etc.): "infringe a copyright".

Act so as to limit or undermine (something); encroach on: "infringe on his privacy".
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Old 10-11-2012, 06:54   #266
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The Supreme Court is wrong. Again. Happens a lot.

BTW, when did they rule it was moral?



In your mind, from where do you get your right to arms?
I love you so called Constitutional people. You want to follow it with the Second Amendment but ignore Article III in the Constitution.

We do not live in an anarchy were everyone can interpret and enforce the Constitution in their own image. Article III sets up the judicial system to do that.

We can condemn the Supreme Court by our opinions. We can try to change the make-up of the Supreme Court through our right to vote. However, we must follow the Supreme Court in its enforcement.

Currently, the Supreme Court went out of their way in District of Columbia v. Heller to state that the federal government and the states have the right to regulate firearms on many levels.

The man should have known Ohio's laws. He is 100% in the wrong.

The only issue is will justice be served?

Hopefully, this can be plead down to a misdemeanor and small slap on the wrist.
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Old 10-11-2012, 07:03   #267
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"shall not be infringed".

in·fringe/inˈfrinj/
Verb: Actively break the terms of (a law, agreement, etc.): "infringe a copyright".
See my above post.

I would love to go back to the time when the Bill of Rights was written and slap the founding fathers in the face.

From every point of view the Second Amendment was poorly worded.

I believe it is an individual right and that the founding fathers did not want gun-control.

WHT does "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state" mean?

I have never heard a convincing argument of why the founding fathers was so stupid to write that phrase.

Again that's why we have the Supreme Court to make these decisions and to interpret the constitution.
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Old 10-11-2012, 07:12   #268
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The word "regulated" was used in that time to mean "well-equipped" or "well-trained".

This usage can be found in literature of the period, but is no longer common today.


It was used for example on clocks and timepieces of the period applied in a similar usage as "well-adjusted", to keep accurate time.
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Old 10-11-2012, 07:24   #269
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The Supreme Court is wrong. Again. Happens a lot.

BTW, when did they rule it was moral?



In your mind, from where do you get your right to arms?
Thoughts:

First, you apparently have an unconstitutional view of the Supreme Court. I'd rather not have to spell this one out, but I can if need be.

Second, your constant narrative about "natural" rights sounds nice, but is meaningless. Go to North Korea sometime and tell them about your natural rights and see how far it gets you. Not that I disagree with the concept of natural or unalienable rights (I don't), but the ONLY reason we in the USA are able to exercise them (talking practical sense here) is our particular set of earthly laws recognize them. You know, the same laws that specify the Supreme Court as the judicial authority on all things US Constitution (meaning it's a stretch to claim to be a Constitutionalist and flippantly say they're "wrong." Oops, I spelled it out anyway).

Third, was the gentleman in the OP a part of any well-regulated militia? Personally, I don't requiring such is necessary or the proper interpretation of the Second Amendment but the question needed to be asked to illustrate the fact that interpretation of the Constitution isn't as cut an dried as either side in any given constitutional debate would purport it to be.

Yeah, yeah, I know. The "antis" have won and all.
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Old 10-11-2012, 07:26   #270
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I love you so called Constitutional people. You want to follow it with the Second Amendment but ignore Article III in the Constitution.

We do not live in an anarchy were everyone can interpret and enforce the Constitution in their own image. Article III sets up the judicial system to do that.

We can condemn the Supreme Court by our opinions. We can try to change the make-up of the Supreme Court through our right to vote. However, we must follow the Supreme Court in its enforcement.

Currently, the Supreme Court went out of their way in District of Columbia v. Heller to state that the federal government and the states have the right to regulate firearms on many levels.

The man should have known Ohio's laws. He is 100% in the wrong.

The only issue is will justice be served?

Hopefully, this can be plead down to a misdemeanor and small slap on the wrist.
Well crap. I went through this entire thread just to make sure nobody had raised this point and as I'm posting, you beat me to the punch
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Old 10-11-2012, 07:27   #271
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The word "regulated" was used in that time to mean "well-equipped" or "well-trained".

This usage can be found in literature of the period, but is no longer common today.


It was used for example on clocks and timepieces of the period applied in a similar usage as "well-adjusted", to keep accurate time.
What about the word "militia"? That's where the hangup is for most people.
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Old 10-11-2012, 07:32   #272
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...
Second, your constant narrative about "natural" rights sounds nice, but is meaningless. Go to North Korea sometime and tell them about your natural rights and see how far it gets you. ..
But then, they don't have a constitution defending those rights from encroachment by government, do they? This particular argument is a bit specious at best.
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Old 10-11-2012, 07:34   #273
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What about the word "militia"? That's where the hangup is for most people.
It's very clear from all writings of the time that "militia" was all able-bodied civilian males.
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Old 10-11-2012, 07:42   #274
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It's very clear from all writings of the time that "militia" was all able-bodied civilian males.
You are arguing with people who think any "man", "court", "king", "dictator", can make a rule/law, that they can't defend themselves, with any means possible!
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Old 10-11-2012, 07:44   #275
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But then, they don't have a constitution defending those rights from encroachment by government, do they? This particular argument is a bit specious at best.
Which is exactly why I addressed that in the part of the paragraph you didn't quote.
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