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Old 10-10-2012, 08:57   #51
redbaron007
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Originally Posted by Dragoon44 View Post
Again the Fl AG's opinion carries NO legal weight. Every LE agency in Fl is aware of this. The only opinions they MIGHT listen to is those where the Ag has been asked for his legal opinion on some aspect of Fl law. That is not the case in this situation. This is not an opinion issued by the AG it is part of the Ag's argument in the brief filed with the court.



The case has noting to do with open carry. the individual was not arrested for open carry. the defense is trying to claim that part of the handle of the firearm being visible equals open carry but it does not.



This mantra of the gun rights folks always amuses me. obviously if the police in their work operate don innocent until proven guilty they would never arrest anyone or charge them with anything.

"innocent until proven guilty" has it's place, but that place is the courtroom not the street.
^^
True, but if the AG has their way, then this norm; 95% of the public is guilty of carrying illegally, so therefore, this is reason enough to stop a person and force them to provide a defense just upon a stat.

The problem I see with the AGs comments is, they are incorporated in the Appeal, which if the appeal is upheld in their favor; then their 'opinion' can/will be used as settled law.

I don't like this case, period. The fact the officer saw the gun from a distance, i.e. open carry (prior to the search), however, the guy was charged with illegally carrying a concealed weapon....leaves me with some distress. Why didn't they charge him with illegally open carrying? But I will contend I did not read the initial trial info, just the appellate info.

But to your point, it is the AGs opinion...in their response to the appeal to the Supreme Court of Florida.



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Old 10-10-2012, 09:17   #52
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Really? Where have officers gone on record saying no one should carry? I keep reading things like this on the internet and yet, oddly, I never seem to hear anything like it in real life.
I sit next to a former LAPD officer and he tells me that he thinks his job would have been a lit easier if all law abiding folks carried.

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Old 10-10-2012, 10:26   #53
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True, but if the AG has their way, then this norm; 95% of the public is guilty of carrying illegally, so therefore, this is reason enough to stop a person and force them to provide a defense just upon a stat.
I agree, but keeping it in context an AG's opinion stated in a brief does not equal the AG's opinion becomes law even if the State wins. What will become case law is what the Court rules and they virtually always state their reasons for their rulings. THAT is where I would be concerned, not what some imbecile AG says.


Quote:
I don't like this case, period. The fact the officer saw the gun from a distance, i.e. open carry (prior to the search), however, the guy was charged with illegally carrying a concealed weapon....leaves me with some distress. Why didn't they charge him with illegally open carrying? But I will contend I did not read the initial trial info, just the appellate info.
In the view of the State he was NOT open carrying. ANd the case does not hinge on open carry other than it is what the Defense is trying to claim.
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Old 10-10-2012, 10:27   #54
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Originally Posted by Glock_Convert View Post
I sit next to a former LAPD officer and he tells me that he thinks his job would have been a lit easier if all law abiding folks carried.

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I can think of several occasions when Armed citizens made my job much easier. Usually in cases where we arrived to find the BG shot or DOA.

One case a drug dealing thug tried breaking in on an old man. The old guy shot him a couple times with a .22 the thug survived. Since the old guys ratty sat. night special .22 was now evidence we took up a collection and got him a .38
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Old 10-10-2012, 10:33   #55
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Originally Posted by Dragoon44 View Post
I can think of several occasions when Armed citizens made my job much easier. Usually in cases where we arrived to find the BG shot or DOA.

One case a drug dealing thug tried breaking in on an old man. The old guy shot him a couple times with a .22 the thug survived. Since the old guys ratty sat. night special .22 was now evidence we took up a collection and got him a .38
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Old 10-10-2012, 11:43   #56
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.... Since the old guys ratty sat. night special .22 was now evidence we took up a collection and got him a .38

Now that right there is what you call a very heart-warming story. Very generous and charitable of you.
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Old 10-10-2012, 11:48   #57
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Now that right there is what you call a very heart-warming story. Very generous and charitable of you.
it wasn't completely altruistic, we were hoping he would trim the thug population a bit more and next time not just wound them.

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Old 10-10-2012, 11:53   #58
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it wasn't completely altruistic, we were hoping he would trim the thug population a bit more and next time not just wound them.

Both good reasons and a very nice gesture

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Old 10-10-2012, 12:19   #59
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I agree, but keeping it in context an AG's opinion stated in a brief does not equal the AG's opinion becomes law even if the State wins. What will become case law is what the Court rules and they virtually always state their reasons for their rulings. THAT is where I would be concerned, not what some imbecile AG says.

It doesn't make it law, but, it also doesn't prevent a local PA from utilizing the comments to influence their charges/cases. Regardless of what the court says, some one will use the language and the premise to help justify their case, regardless if it applies or not. Both sides of this case seem to accuse the other of using precedents out of context. Full disclosure...IANAL



In the view of the State he was NOT open carrying. ANd the case does not hinge on open carry other than it is what the Defense is trying to claim. Hence the concern...they admit it was visible...but he was charged with illegally concealing.
Just my thoughts....as disclosed above IANAL....but I have recently stayed in a Holiday Inn Express.

It'll be interesting to see how the Supreme rules on this.



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Old 10-10-2012, 14:10   #60
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Thanks for posting that case as I couldn't for the life of me remember which one it was!

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Old 10-10-2012, 17:03   #61
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it wasn't completely altruistic, we were hoping he would trim the thug population a bit more and next time not just wound them.

I may have been born very late at night and the little plate below my nameplate may read "serving since 7:00 am" but I had a pretty strong idea of at least part of the incentive.
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Old 10-10-2012, 19:30   #62
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...The LEO doesn't know which case he is dealing with until they see the 'card'. A LEO should have the right to ask to see the card. And... a lawful CCW carrier should have no problem politely showing it to them...
Change that to a driver's license, and tell me you're still okay with it.
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:15   #63
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Originally Posted by Gunnut 45/454 View Post
Disreguarding that the SCOTUS already said just because a person is carrying a firearm doesn't give them the right to stop/questioning by LEO's! I hope FL State has alot of money to give out in the pending lawsuits for wrongful arrest!
I'm assuming you're referring to FL only.
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Old 10-11-2012, 05:27   #64
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Change that to a driver's license, and tell me you're still okay with it.
The subject under discussion (and which you quoted an excerpt from my post) dealt with whether the subject of the LEOs attention was legally or illegally carrying a concealed weapon. The CCW permit is the instant answer to the LEOs question.

A DL has no bearing on that situation and is meaningless... unless of course, the subject in question is inside a motor vehicle... then it still has no bearing on the legality of carry - only whether the motor vehicle is being operated by one allowed to do so.

I would be just fine with the LEO asking a vehicle driver for their DL, as I am with a LEO asking a CC for their carry permit.
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Old 10-11-2012, 06:12   #65
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Originally Posted by John Rambo View Post
Strange, any time I've told a cop I was carrying when it came up in conversation they didn't even bat an eye.

Whats that phrase again...tot...totall....totally...circumstances? Pam Bondi is an idiot. Pam Bondi is also not a police officer and our police officers (as long as you stay away from the Southeastern seaboard and out of St Petersburg/Clearwater) are not generally idiots.
I don't know about you, but I have had pretty good experiences regarding LEO's up and down the east coast, whether it's in Florida or not. I have had only one LEO encounter when I was armed(I stopped at a traffic accident) and he said "Thanks for telling me, just don't draw that ****"

Please tell me how the cops on the South Eastern seaboard are idiots.
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Old 10-11-2012, 08:18   #66
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Apparently Bondi is not a fan of the Constitution or current State Law. Her Biases show her to also be a terrible attorney and incapable of upholding the oath she took coming into office. The people of FL should move to remove her from office but my guess is there are too many sheep and not enough sheepdogs.
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Old 10-11-2012, 13:05   #67
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The people of FL should move to remove her from office but my guess is there are too many sheep and not enough sheepdogs.
Ms. Bondi is a Tea Party favorite and she could, therefore, probably win re-election tomorrow if need be.
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