The facts

Smacktard · 10-09-2012, 00:45

You keep asking for it, here it is.

Your moral guide - YouTube

...

English · 10-09-2012, 05:00

Brilliant. Simple. Elegant. Undeniable.

English

muscogee · 10-09-2012, 14:26

Speaking of editing, ever heard a sermon on Onan?

Smacktard · 10-09-2012, 14:48

Don't the believers have something to say?

....

Glock36shooter · 10-09-2012, 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smacktard

Don't the believers have something to say?

....

No, cause it's true and they know it.

Roering · 10-09-2012, 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smacktard

You keep asking for it, here it is.

Your moral guide - YouTube

...

Premise is false. Everyone knows Atheists don't have a moral guide.

Trew2Life · 10-09-2012, 19:36

Morality is doing what is right regardless of what you are told. Religion is doing what you are told regardless of what is right.

Tilley · 10-09-2012, 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roering

Premise is false. Everyone knows Atheists have an immoral guide.

Fixed it for ya my furry friend.

ksg0245 · 10-09-2012, 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roering

Premise is false. Everyone knows Atheists don't have a moral guide.

This is supposed to be a joke, right?

brokenprism · 10-10-2012, 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by muscogee

Speaking of editing, ever heard a sermon on Onan?

No, Muscogee, I've never heard a sermon on coitus interruptus.

OK, I'll wade in here. I don't sift anything. I don't edit. I don't judge the Book -- the Book judges me. If God told Joshua, or whomever, to put everyone in the city to the edge of the sword, great or small (six-yr old girl small, right...? That's what we're talking about), then by God you do it. You do what He says. Everything belongs to Him. Even people are His property to do with as he pleases.

I don't listen to big black dogs, and thank God I live under a different covenant than the old one, but the old one was every bit as good and right and righteous as the current one. We expect compassion -- we presume upon it -- but we're not interested in righteousness or holiness.

The operative principle -- the one the guy with the "I'm the product of higher education" accent was alluding to -- is this:

"A little leaven leavens the whole lump."

If to keep a nation like Israel pure from the influence of its pagan neighbors you have to wipe from the face of the earth the entire pagan society, clearly that influence would have been not just culturally troublesome, but fatal to Israel in some way. (It would be like the Indians wiping out every white person that came over the horizon because the diseases they brought were fatal to a people with no immunities. The Blackfeet and Mandan know all about this. Who would blame them? Or, what Indian would blame them? We, not being them, can't judge that, any more than we can judge Israel's actions three or four thousand years ago.) But this Englishman's beef is really with God. God told Isreal what to do through the prophets, and they mostly didn't do what they were told anyway, so we can all be cool here.

Who remembers this moment "Let he who is without sin be the first to cast a stone at her." ?

The only one there without sin did not, in fact, cast a stone at her. Let's consider that 'bit' instead of beating people up with Leviticus.

muscogee · 10-10-2012, 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by brokenprism

No, Muscogee, I've never heard a sermon on coitus interruptus.

Me neither. Why not? Why nothing from the Song of Solomon?

Quote:

Originally Posted by brokenprism

OK, I'll wade in here. I don't sift anything. I don't edit. I don't judge the Book -- the Book judges me. If God told Joshua, or whomever, to put everyone in the city to the edge of the sword, great or small (six-yr old girl small, right...? That's what we're talking about), then by God you do it. You do what He says. Everything belongs to Him. Even people are His property to do with as he pleases.

I don't listen to big black dogs, and thank God I live under a different covenant than the old one, but the old one was every bit as good and right and righteous as the current one. We expect compassion -- we presume upon it -- but we're not interested in righteousness or holiness.

The operative principle -- the one the guy with the "I'm the product of higher education" accent was alluding to -- is this:

"A little leaven leavens the whole lump."

If to keep a nation like Israel pure from the influence of its pagan neighbors you have to wipe from the face of the earth the entire pagan society, clearly that influence would have been not just culturally troublesome, but fatal to Israel in some way. (It would be like the Indians wiping out every white person that came over the horizon because the diseases they brought were fatal to a people with no immunities. The Blackfeet and Mandan know all about this. Who would blame them? Or, what Indian would blame them? We, not being them, can't judge that, any more than we can judge Israel's actions three or four thousand years ago.) But this Englishman's beef is really with God. God told Isreal what to do through the prophets, and they mostly didn't do what they were told anyway, so we can all be cool here.

What has this got to do with my question?

Quote:

Originally Posted by brokenprism

Who remembers this moment "Let he who is without sin be the first to cast a stone at her." ?

That depends on which translation you like. Is it OK to cast the first stone as long as it isn't at her? OK, I'm joking but that's the kind of hair splitting I see from Christians all the time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by brokenprism

The only one there without sin did not, in fact, cast a stone at her. Let's consider that 'bit' instead of beating people up with Leviticus.

But he tore up the Temple a short time later. Some would see that as talking out of both sides of you mouth.

Altaris · 10-10-2012, 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roering

Premise is false. Everyone knows Atheists don't have a moral guide.

How do You figure out the good from the bad in the bible? How do You cherry pick what to follow and what not to? Where does that come from?

If we don't have a moral guide, then what exactly is immoral about me/us?

***ArtificialGrape*** · 10-10-2012, 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by brokenprism

OK, I'll wade in here. I don't sift anything. I don't edit. I don't judge the Book -- the Book judges me. If God told Joshua, or whomever, to put everyone in the city to the edge of the sword, great or small (six-yr old girl small, right...? That's what we're talking about), then by God you do it. You do what He says.

This right here demonstrates the danger of religious faith.

-ArtificialGrape

***Geko45*** · 10-10-2012, 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by brokenprism

OK, I'll wade in here. I don't sift anything. I don't edit. I don't judge the Book -- the Book judges me. If God told Joshua, or whomever, to put everyone in the city to the edge of the sword, great or small (six-yr old girl small, right...? That's what we're talking about), then by God you do it. You do what He says. Everything belongs to Him. Even people are His property to do with as he pleases.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArtificialGrape

This right here demonstrates the danger of religious faith.

-ArtificialGrape

And why it is extremely dangerous for the passionately religious to hold public office.

snowbird · 10-11-2012, 11:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArtificialGrape

This right here demonstrates the danger of religious faith.

-ArtificialGrape

Setting aside for the moment the fact that Islam isn't just a religion, it is also a totalitarian fascist form of government, didn't an awful lot of American lefties vote Obama into office in 2008?

And doesn't he wear a gold ring on his wedding-band finger that has inscribed on it, the Islamic Shahada? The Shahada is what he said was the sweetest sound on earth at sunset. So we have a Muslim in our highest office, and you rightly warn against the danger of such religious faith. He's destroying our economy, our culture, our freedom.

The question is, where were you in 2008? You didn't, by any chance, vote for this guy, did you?

snowbird · 10-11-2012, 11:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smacktard

Don't the believers have something to say?

....

There is a saying in the field of medicine that a physician who diagnoses and treats himself has a fool for a doctor. In other words, self-reliance has its limits.

Unlike Muslims who treat their Koran as if it's Allah, most Christians understand that the Bible, although Divinely inspired, was written by fallible human authors. And it's been translated and hand-copied many times over the ages -there is room for some errors to have crept in. It is also said that the Devil can quote Scripture for his own ends.

So Pat Condell is partly right, we do have to rely on our own conscience considerably. But the Bible is still an indispensable moral compass. Most Christians get it right -there has been no Levticus-style genocide done by Christians. But atheists did murder 100 million innocents in the 20th century, after they rejected Biblical morality. And Muslims, who have rejected Biblical morality ever since their pedophile founder, have murdered 280 million innocents in the last 14 centuries, and still counting daily -unlike Christians.

***ArtificialGrape*** · 10-11-2012, 12:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by snowbird

Setting aside for the moment the fact that Islam isn't just a religion, it is also a totalitarian fascist form of government, didn't an awful lot of American lefties vote Obama into office in 2008?

And doesn't he wear a gold ring on his wedding-band finger that has inscribed on it, the Islamic Shahada? The Shahada is what he said was the sweetest sound on earth at sunset. So we have a Muslim in our highest office, and you rightly warn against the danger of such religious faith. He's destroying our economy, our culture, our freedom.

The question is, where were you in 2008? You didn't, by any chance, vote for this guy, did you?

Nope -- I've voted for the Republican candidate since I was first old enough to vote in the '88 election, and I'll be voting Romney/Ryan although I'm not excited about it.

-ArtificialGrape

snowbird · 10-11-2012, 12:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArtificialGrape

Nope -- I've voted for the Republican candidate since I was first old enough to vote in the '88 election, and I'll be voting Romney/Ryan although I'm not excited about it.

-ArtificialGrape

English · 10-11-2012, 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by snowbird

There is a saying in the field of medicine that a physician who diagnoses and treats himself has a fool for a doctor. In other words, self-reliance has its limits.

Unlike Muslims who treat their Koran as if it's Allah, most Christians understand that the Bible, although Divinely inspired, was written by fallible human authors. And it's been translated and hand-copied many times over the ages -there is room for some errors to have crept in. It is also said that the Devil can quote Scripture for his own ends.

So Pat Condell is partly right, we do have to rely on our own conscience considerably. But the Bible is still an indispensable moral compass. Most Christians get it right -there has been no Levticus-style genocide done by Christians. But atheists did murder 100 million innocents in the 20th century, after they rejected Biblical morality. And Muslims, who have rejected Biblical morality ever since their pedophile founder, have murdered 280 million innocents in the last 14 centuries, and still counting daily -unlike Christians.

Atheism is not an ideology. Christianity, Islam, Socialism, Fascism, Communism and others are ideologies which have much more in common with each other than any of them do with atheism as such. Socialism and Comunism are atheist not because they have thought through the rationality of theism and found it wanting but because they are ideologies competing with conventional religions.

In other words, the murder of well over 100,000,000 people by the Communists had nothing to do with their atheism and everything to do with their ideology which, like Islam now and Christianity in its time, demands world dommination. Both Islam and Christianity have committed their share of murders in the name of the faith. Relative to the world population at the time, Islam probably exceeded the score of the Communists and who knows how many were killed in the name of Christianity, but of which we hear very little. As a simple example, the Spanish exterminated the indigenous people of the souther half of South America.

Both Islam and Christianity have indoctinated many of their people into sterile and worthless lives with a neurotic concern for what comes after death rather than what is best in life. Both have cults of martyrdom. Both have stultified the advance of knowledge and have tried to limit it to their own religious caste and mainly to theology within the orthodox interpretation. It is very hard for someone with an open mind to find anything good about either of them.

I get very tired of people like you equating people like me with the Communists and I get tired of explaining why we are not, but still you do it. In the post previous to the one quoed above you asked of Artificial Grape:

Quote:

The question is, where were you in 2008? You didn't, by any chance, vote for this guy, did you?

as though for some reason you think atheists must be liberals. You will find very few proper atheists who are liberals because liberalism, otherwise known as socialism, is an ideology which is entirely as irrational as Christianity. Proper atheists reject both for the same reasons.

Many people can be conned into believing Christianity or Socialism or both, just as many can be conned into various cults. Many of those who end up with Socialism then choose to disbelieve in God because it is part of their rejection of the traditional ideology. That is not the same as disbelieving in God because they have thought the issue through and reached a rational conclusion. What it is, is a human failing that wants certain simple and complete answers to everything, and having found some such ideology cannot bear to think of any other explanation for natural phenomena. Another way of saying that is that they lack moral courage.

English

muscogee · 10-11-2012, 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by snowbird

There is a saying in the field of medicine that a physician who diagnoses and treats himself has a fool for a doctor. In other words, self-reliance has its limits.

Like everything else, you've got that backwards. The doctor who treats himself has a fool for a patient.

GreenDrake · 10-11-2012, 15:28

Bird, ANY religion is a form of government, those who use it as official government call it a Theocracy. Religion is the first form of government, by nature.

snowbird · 10-11-2012, 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by muscogee

Like everything else, you've got that backwards. The doctor who treats himself has a fool for a patient.

Uh, in case you didn't notice, in this example, they're one and the same.

snowbird · 10-11-2012, 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by English

... lack moral courage.

English

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree concerning atheism and Christianity, without being disagreeable.

But moral courage was found in Enoch Powell. And now it is to be found in Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, a.k.a. Tommy Robinson. He has just stepped down as joint vice-chairman of the British Freedom Party in order to focus his attention on the English Defense League.

God bless him, the EDL, and all of the counterjihad.

***Woofie*** · 10-11-2012, 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by brokenprism

OK, I'll wade in here. I don't sift anything. I don't edit. I don't judge the Book -- the Book judges me. If God told Joshua, or whomever, to put everyone in the city to the edge of the sword, great or small (six-yr old girl small, right...? That's what we're talking about), then by God you do it. You do what He says. Everything belongs to Him. Even people are His property to do with as he pleases.

It's disgusting to think that you believe I am the property of your fairy tales.

Roering · 10-11-2012, 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by ksg0245

This is supposed to be a joke, right?

Science has yet to find any proof that one exists.