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Old 10-11-2012, 10:12   #1
OctoberRust
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The Paul Ryan budget

This isn't about Obama, we all know he's horrible as well. Let's discuss the Paul Ryan budget. Here's Peter Schiff on him and his budget.

I know a lot on here say Romney/Ryan are "numbers" guys. Well, why aren't their "numbers" adding up?

Schiff basically telling it how I tell it here, minus everyone calling him a liberal, like many on here enjoy calling me.

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Old 10-11-2012, 14:10   #2
OctoberRust
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Yep, the fake conservatives shut the hell up real quick when their budget is called out, and is explained why big gov't RINOs win in this democratic system we've installed, one amendment at a time, starting with the 17th.
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Old 10-11-2012, 14:47   #3
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Hence the reason some of us have been saying we are doomed one way or the other. It's just a matter of which path you want to take.
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Old 10-11-2012, 14:53   #4
OctoberRust
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Hence the reason some of us have been saying we are doomed one way or the other. It's just a matter of which path you want to take.

Yep, and the video explains in good detail (given the short length of it) on why this is happening.

Still waiting for the day to tell these fake conservatives and liberals on here "I told you so".

Sooner or later, it'll be here.
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Old 10-11-2012, 16:36   #5
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Confronting the reality of the present situation is absolutely essential for getting out of it, but it is a borderline trauma-inducing experience for most garden-variety GOP types who desperately want the effort to be as simple as registering their opinion on election day. This board and this thread illustrate the phenomenon well.
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Old 10-11-2012, 16:40   #6
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Confronting the reality of the present situation is absolutely essential for getting out of it, but it is a borderline trauma-inducing experience for most garden-variety GOP types who desperately want the effort to be as simple as registering their opinion on election day. This board and this thread illustrate the phenomenon well.

That applies even more to the Libertarians who delude themselves into thinking one of theirs in the White House could change things without the long hard work of changing the complexion of the Congress so he has something and somebody to work with.
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Old 10-11-2012, 16:47   #7
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That applies even more to the Libertarians who delude themselves into thinking one of theirs in the White House could change things without the long hard work of changing the complexion of the Congress so he has something and somebody to work with.
That's a much higher-order problem. It would not exist if the GOP consistently had the fortitude to talk about economic reality.
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Old 10-11-2012, 16:57   #8
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That's a much higher-order problem. It would not exist if the GOP consistently had the fortitude to talk about economic reality.

Just who is theis "GOP" of which you speak?

Some mythical monster, or a bunch of elected representatives?

If they are elected, wouldn't the answer be to elect different ones?
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Old 10-11-2012, 17:04   #9
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Just who is theis "GOP" of which you speak?

Some mythical monster, or a bunch of elected representatives?

If they are elected, wouldn't the answer be to elect different ones?
Please see the original post for the fundamental problem with that. It's a recurring theme since ancient Greece. And that is why thinking out of the box is so imperative.
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Old 10-11-2012, 17:10   #10
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Huh, the same guy that supports RP and recently gave a speech at the Paul Festival. That Peter Schiff?

Wow, here I thought Nobel Economists would carry more credibility
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/...t-romneys-plan
"Who's got the best plan for bringing America's economy back from the doldrums? Well, according to more than 400 prominent economists—including five Nobel laureates—it's Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan."
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Old 10-11-2012, 17:11   #11
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Please see the original post for the fundamental problem with that. It's a recurring theme since ancient Greece. And that is why thinking out of the box is so imperative.
So there needs to be a change.

A third party can' t seem to change the Congress even when the Congress is divided into so many small voting sections. They can't stay wound up enough, or get enough votes, to make every single election they can vote in count. Their answer is to get wound up every four years and yell "we want something else" and expect the voters who don't elect many of their people to offices at all, suddenly have an epiphany and elect one to the highest office in the land and that will fix everything.

To me it sounds a lot like the people who thought that one person was going to change everything and voted for Obama.

pinning the hopes on one office doesn't seem to be thinking "outside the box" to me.
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Old 10-11-2012, 17:24   #12
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So there needs to be a change.

A third party can' t seem to change the Congress even when the Congress is divided into so many small voting sections. They can't stay wound up enough, or get enough votes, to make every single election they can vote in count. Their answer is to get wound up every four years and yell "we want something else" and expect the voters who don't elect many of their people to offices at all, suddenly have an epiphany and elect one to the highest office in the land and that will fix everything.

To me it sounds a lot like the people who thought that one person was going to change everything and voted for Obama.

pinning the hopes on one office doesn't seem to be thinking "outside the box" to me.
I agree with you that political solutions (including 3rd parties) are not "out of the box" enough -- and that's a difficult and traumatic truth to face up to. People know how to vote, and they feel powerless when they get the news that it's just not going to be enough to turn the fundamental, driving forces that have been destroying democracies for millennia.
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Old 10-11-2012, 17:47   #13
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There is no such thing as a "Paul Ryan Budget" except as a democratic diversion.
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Old 10-11-2012, 19:07   #14
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Well gee the Liberal Progressives went of the hook on this modest approach! What would they do if you actually put out a real cut to the bone/get rid of all entitlements budget? They would implode would they not? Do you think you could get ONE FREAKING DUMOCRAT to vote for it? Is that what you want a one budget cutting everything to the bone to get it under control now or a modest budget to start to undue the 4 decades of Progresive entitlements corruption? Or are you a get rid of the hole Federal Gov . now an start over type- like thats going to happen short of Revolution.
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Old 10-12-2012, 07:23   #15
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Originally Posted by OctoberRust View Post
Yep, and the video explains in good detail (given the short length of it) on why this is happening.

Still waiting for the day to tell these fake conservatives and liberals on here "I told you so".

Sooner or later, it'll be here.
You post one commentator's negative view of a budget plan, and think everyone is going to come flocking in to discuss it when you don't even put any discussion out.

Just posting a video, and saying, "There." doesn't really cut it as a persuasive political argument.
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Last edited by series1811; 10-12-2012 at 07:24..
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Old 10-12-2012, 08:45   #16
OctoberRust
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You post one commentator's negative view of a budget plan, and think everyone is going to come flocking in to discuss it when you don't even put any discussion out.

Just posting a video, and saying, "There." doesn't really cut it as a persuasive political argument.
I doubt you watched the whole video, he explains why no conservatives steps up to what a conservative should really stand for. Just as he said in the video, you can't explain it in just a 30 minute sound bite, just like I won't be able to type this up in one post, but I'll try to illustrate this for you, in a way you can comprehend.

I've explained this many time. Let me copy paste from a previous post, to save myself the typing.

Why the Romney and Obama administration are both failures are because...

Taxation without representation.

Not many could fathom conservative-libertarian policies, because their wife/friend/uncle/sister/brother/etc is either

1. on Social security or some sort of welfare program
2. is making a "career" out of the military
3. is a DEA agent
4. has some other subsidization of their job, because they weren't good/skilled/mixture of the above enough to adapt like a truly capitalistic system would require them to do.

Sad but true, and it hurts a LOT of people's feelings when I tell it how it is.

Last edited by OctoberRust; 10-12-2012 at 08:48.. Reason: bolded the parts that'll probably upset the fake/hypocritical conservatives on here.
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Old 10-12-2012, 08:46   #17
OctoberRust
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Please see the original post for the fundamental problem with that. It's a recurring theme since ancient Greece. And that is why thinking out of the box is so imperative.

Exactly. Taxation without representation/democracy will always lead to this.

You'd think the "conservatives" on here would realize where a democracy leads a nation.
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Old 10-12-2012, 10:57   #18
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Originally Posted by OctoberRust View Post
Not many could fathom conservative-libertarian policies, because their wife/friend/uncle/sister/brother/etc is either

1. on Social security or some sort of welfare program
2. is making a "career" out of the military
3. is a DEA agent
4. has some other subsidization of their job, because they weren't good/skilled/mixture of the above enough to adapt like a truly capitalistic system would require them to do.

.
5. Retired young from a successful private career, taking no Government money and not thinking of Social Security as being more than a drop in the retirement bucket, not in the military, not working for the DEA, no Government subsidies whatsoever.

You forgot me.


But it was so nice of you to include #2 "Making a "career" out of the military. I have no skin in that except that I respect those who DO make a career out of the military because they protect MY skin and I appreciate it. Your inclusion of them in your little list will probably do more to alienate people than anything I could say about you.


People can now see the self-centered universe you spin in and see you and your ilk as the noisy little termites you are.

You can't walk that one back, and the obvious slur against the career military personel that protect your freedom just can't be explained away. If for no reason other than that I will continue to reject this most recent incarnation of a "Libertarian" movement as a leftist inspired "cotton candy castles" sales pitch that has a severe disconnect with the reality of the world and national security.

Last edited by countrygun; 10-12-2012 at 11:03..
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Old 10-12-2012, 12:28   #19
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Originally Posted by OctoberRust View Post
I doubt you watched the whole video, he explains why no conservatives steps up to what a conservative should really stand for. Just as he said in the video, you can't explain it in just a 30 minute sound bite, just like I won't be able to type this up in one post, but I'll try to illustrate this for you, in a way you can comprehend.

I've explained this many time. Let me copy paste from a previous post, to save myself the typing.

Why the Romney and Obama administration are both failures are because...

Taxation without representation.

Not many could fathom conservative-libertarian policies, because their wife/friend/uncle/sister/brother/etc is either

1. on Social security or some sort of welfare program
2. is making a "career" out of the military
3. is a DEA agent
4. has some other subsidization of their job, because they weren't good/skilled/mixture of the above enough to adapt like a truly capitalistic system would require them to do.

Sad but true, and it hurts a LOT of people's feelings when I tell it how it is.
You cutting and pasting from some commentator who is paid to generate controversy, isn't really the kind of thing to get anyone's feelings hurt with.
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Old 10-12-2012, 13:16   #20
OctoberRust
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5. Retired young from a successful private career, taking no Government money and not thinking of Social Security as being more than a drop in the retirement bucket, not in the military, not working for the DEA, no Government subsidies whatsoever.

You forgot me.


But it was so nice of you to include #2 "Making a "career" out of the military. I have no skin in that except that I respect those who DO make a career out of the military because they protect MY skin and I appreciate it. Your inclusion of them in your little list will probably do more to alienate people than anything I could say about you.


People can now see the self-centered universe you spin in and see you and your ilk as the noisy little termites you are.

You can't walk that one back, and the obvious slur against the career military personel that protect your freedom just can't be explained away. If for no reason other than that I will continue to reject this most recent incarnation of a "Libertarian" movement as a leftist inspired "cotton candy castles" sales pitch that has a severe disconnect with the reality of the world and national security.

Countrygun, you fall in the VAST minority, if your job is not somehow subsidized, and you're self made/self paid. We've discussed this before, and are on the same page as far as that part goes.

As far as your referring to #2. There's a BIG difference between serving your country, and making a career out of the military. I've seen/know, have plenty in my family that have done both. It's a BIG waste of money, right under Social Security (sorry, numbers don't lie). Whenever I point these two factors to our deficit, the left tells me I'm heartless and want old people to die from dismantling SS completely. And the self proclaimed "right" denounce me, claiming I lack "patriotism".

Again, this problem will never be fixed until we can fix our government. The taxed are not adequately represented, and will never be until the inevitable collapse.

"Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY." --Hermann Goering at the Nuremberg Trials
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