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Old 10-11-2012, 10:31   #1
JW1178
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Old friend's husband getting gun charge. :)

So I read on facebook (modern electronic grapevine) an old friend of mine who married a loser that her husband was arrested for illegal possession of a firearm and carrying a consealed weapon. What happened is he helping a friend who is a repo man do repos. Instead of using a truck, they just get the keys from the dealer/bank and drive it off. Well they did a repo and the guy called it in as a theft. The owner informed the officers there was a gun in the car. Well when the police pull the car over, they search it, and find the gun. He had no permit to carry. She didn't say where they found it but I am assuming it was somewhere besides where it's legal to carry in the state of GA without a permit. To top it off, he is a convicted felon, and I'm pretty sure he is either on probation or parole. This guy is a scum bag, nobody likes him and she has pretty much lost all her friends since she married him. Her family didn't even come to the wedding. He beats the hell out of her but she stays with him, so that's her choice. I guess from what she said, they have told the DA that he was doing a repo but there are no protections or exceptions for people in that profession, and not knowing the weapon was there isn't going to be a factor. He was a felon in possession of a firearm.
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Old 10-11-2012, 11:12   #2
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If the story is really as you say... scumbag or not, I have a problem w/ the charges. It'll cost him, but I'm guessing as this works it's way through the process, it'll he will plea this way down, or it will be just dismissed by the judge.

Crazy way to do repos though... although that's a crazy job anyway. I've known repo men who do that, but they only do it when an owner has repeatedly refused to surrender the vehicle and has made numerous threats, etc.. against the repo men that come to get the vehicle.
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Old 10-11-2012, 11:40   #3
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Who's finger prints are on the gun?

If it is just the cars previous possessor, then I think this will sort its self out in a jury trial.
If his finger prints are on the gun and the cars previous possessor deny's it is his, I would tent to think the scubbag brought the gun with him.

I will also say that I have a bias against people with criminal backgrounds. I always assume they are lying.
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Old 10-11-2012, 11:49   #4
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I think the key here is that he is a convicted felon still on some sort of condition. She can't bail him out I know that much, so it sounds like he was on parole.

He has made death threats to me, and pretty much all her friends. I have e-mails he sent to me that are pretty nasty. Yup, he put it in writing. I am trying to get ahold of the DA and other people he had made these threats to so we can help them build a good case against him from the prosecutor.

The only reason other people and I don't cut her off is we want to keep that door open if she decides to leave. She's very sweet and a nice person that sympathises with idiots.

EDIT: I know this really isn't a "carry issue" but all too often we hear about legal, law abiding citizens being put through hell for no real reason. We screw up, just a bit, the book is thrown at us. However, these thugs with rap sheets a mile long, just slip through the cracks. I am really hoping he doesn't get off. I think that is a big reason why crime rates are too high, because it seems the judicial system gets this type they know will never be right, so they just turn them lose, but those of us that walk the line, if we so much as step a toe out, they make us realize we better walk that line and never waver.

Last edited by JW1178; 10-11-2012 at 11:57..
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Old 10-11-2012, 12:00   #5
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If the story is accurate I don't see that charge sticking.

It was a BS move for the officer(s) to charge him in the first place.

Repo guys typically do not inventory a repo until they have it where they are going to store it.
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Old 10-11-2012, 12:50   #6
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It should be on TruTV's Repo show something like that and OP might make some money from that script.
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Old 10-11-2012, 12:56   #7
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Don't repo men have some type of permit or license?

Are they allowed to bring along ex-cons on parole when they steal cars?

Who decides whether to take the car to the bank, or to a chop shop? Coin toss?
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Old 10-11-2012, 14:33   #8
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Originally Posted by Dragoon44 View Post
If the story is accurate I don't see that charge sticking.

It was a BS move for the officer(s) to charge him in the first place.

Repo guys typically do not inventory a repo until they have it where they are going to store it.
How was it BS? If you have a felon in possession of a firearm or someone on parole or probation, what should they do, just let him go? The cop was just enforcing the law. He was a convicted felon driving a car with a gun under the seat. That's a crime.

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Originally Posted by Glock30Eric View Post
It should be on TruTV's Repo show something like that and OP might make some money from that script.
Haha, that would be a good script.

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Originally Posted by ChuteTheMall View Post
Don't repo men have some type of permit or license?

Are they allowed to bring along ex-cons on parole when they steal cars?

Who decides whether to take the car to the bank, or to a chop shop? Coin toss?
I think they do have to have a license, and I know you have to have the proper paperwork. I think it is a lot different than a chop shop vs a bank. It does not however, allow that person to break any laws or give them any special priveleges.

He was an idiot that took the wrong job. I guess he has to because he can't get a job anywhere so he works little odd jobs like this trying to make ends meet. He picked the wrong one. What was really interesting is I remember her telling me about him doing repo's with this guy a couple times and she said they carry guns because they have to because her husband's friend has been shot once and they get guns pointed at them all the time.

EDIT, just found this out but not much else I can say about what's going on because it will be next week before a judge looks at the case. Yeah, he's on parole. Appearantly he was given 10 years for robbery but only had to serve 2, so either way, he's in deep dog poop. So, even if he isn't charged, the parole board can still put him away to finish his sentence. They don't have to give him a trial and they don't have to presume him innocent.

Last edited by JW1178; 10-11-2012 at 14:34..
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Old 10-11-2012, 14:52   #9
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Quote:
How was it BS? If you have a felon in possession of a firearm or someone on parole or probation, what should they do, just let him go? The cop was just enforcing the law. He was a convicted felon driving a car with a gun under the seat. That's a crime.
Maybe I missed something, are you saying the guy knew the gun was there? the way your post read it was the owner of the repo'ed car that told the cops HIS gun was in the car. is that not correct?

Here are two critical points in regards to the charges,

1. it is not his vehicle
2. it was not his gun. they have a statement from the vehicle owner that HIS gun was in the car.

Those two things will lead any Jury to conclude that the guy probably did not know of the presence of the firearm.

So unless the story is completely different than posted it is highly unlikely that a State Attorney is going to file the charges.
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Old 10-11-2012, 15:14   #10
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I agree that if he can reasonably indicate that he had no idea the gun was in the car it will be an uphill prosecution at best. Of course as a convict I could also see him having been told by his attorneys (public defenders) multiple times to never say anything to the police. If he chose that route it might have been one (the only) time when something he (would have) said might actually help. And for some facts on the case I might be slightly more comfortable with the charging document and incident report than a Facebook post, no offense to Facebook fans.
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Old 10-11-2012, 15:27   #11
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Without having all the facts at hand I'd take a stab at while the act was illegal (felon in possession of a firearm) there was no criminal intent. Without intent, except under very limited circumstances, there is no crime.

There are two elements to most crimes:the Actus reus (Latin) or guilty act, and the Mens Rea (Latin again), or guilty or evil intent.

Just sayin'...
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Old 10-11-2012, 22:26   #12
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So the officers acted on the information they received, which was two guys in a stolen vehicle with a firearm inside of it. A convicted felon on parole can't be anywhere near a firearm, especially within reach of one. Maybe he should think about that before going out to repo a vehicle. The whole thing seems shady to me. I really like the idea of felons going around under the guise of repo and taking cars. Not sure about GA, but there are certain things the repo/tow folks must do before taking a vehicle in TN. They have to notify the jurisdictional PD for one so this exact situation doesn't happen.

It's likely to get dismissed if the repo information is correct, but one would assume that if the repo guys had the paperwork in order that they would not have been arrested by the officers that stopped them. I'm not really inclined to take the word of the felon as credible in this story. I'm sure there's more to it, hence the charges that were applied instead of cutting them loose if the vehicle was legally the bank's.
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Old 10-11-2012, 22:52   #13
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I call BS. The guy would have called it in to the police to alert them in case the RO called to report it stolen. That is standard procedure. It is legal to have a gun anywhere in your car in Georgia (although not for him since he is convicted). This was the ROs' gun and not his and like others have mentioned repo guys do not inventory the vehicle until the get it back to there not where its secure.


Even if the guy did not call it in, he still would have repo orders from the the lender. So therefore he did not steal the car and was unaware of its contents.

This will go nowhere. It is becoming widely accepted everywhere to get a second key from the lender. No damage from a tow truck, get in and get out, and less confrontation from ROs'.

Why would a prosecutor care about emails from some joe smo. The two cases would be totally unrelated. Did you file a police report against him when he made the threats? Did anyone else file one?
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Old 10-11-2012, 23:27   #14
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Mens Rea. A guilty mindset. Here we have about as grey an area for charging our friend as possible.

One must have a guilty mind in order to be charged with a felony I believe. You must be doing something that you realize will get you into trouble. The question begged is then "Would in the repo of a vehicle, one expect there to be a hidden firearm?". The answer is grey... it is a definite possibility but missing mens rea.

However, there is also the matter of it being a felony for a convicted felon, having served their time or otherwise, being in possession of a firearm of any kind. That felony is not negated by the felon having served their time - only by the felon receiving a pardon.

I believe that this is going to cost money and court time but will our friend find the charge sticking in the end (pardon the pun)? Hard to say what a Grand Jury will do in the best of times. Ditto before a jury of his peers.... my guess will be that if it comes to sitting before a jury of his peers they will recognize the absence of mens rea, intent, a guilty mind, etc., and the charge will be tossed.

Heck, as implausible as it may seem, anyone can walk into a used car lot, buy a car, only to find out 3 years down the road that the prior owner was a slime and had a .45 hidden in the dash or upholstery somewhere. Is one expected to inspect the vehicle meticulously before purchase? Before repo? What is reasonably expected?

If we think about this charge with a clear mind and any knowledge of the law (including "ignorance is no excuse. Sic."), I think we all come to the conclusion that this charge at some point is going to be tossed.

Knowing the ultimate disposition one would hope that a properly instructed Grand Jury would return "no true bill" and save everyone a lot of grief, time and money.

The requirement for Grand Jury indictment stating that there are sufficient grounds and facts to proceed is a must. It is, in fact, guaranteed by the Bill of Rights (5th. Amendment).

Comments?
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Old 10-12-2012, 00:35   #15
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It won't make it to a grand jury. I think there's a lot missing from the story.
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Old 10-12-2012, 01:01   #16
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There is a lot I don't know about this except what I have heard. I wonder why the LEO's decided to search the vehicle? There are some other factors that sound fishy as well but I don't know what are facts or hearsay. Anyways, my main question was if this charge could stick, and I guess it really probably won't because they can't prove intent.

However, a Grand Jury is not needed if it is charged on a state or lower level.

I know that him being on parole, even if not charged, he could end up back in prison over this.

Last edited by JW1178; 10-12-2012 at 01:04..
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Old 10-12-2012, 05:59   #17
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Originally Posted by JW1178 View Post
There is a lot I don't know about this except what I have heard. I wonder why the LEO's decided to search the vehicle?
In your original post you said the RO called the police and told them there was a gun in the car.

If the repo was legal and they had the proper paperwork, I think the charges will be dropped. If the charges are dropped, I don't see them claiming he violated his parole.
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Old 10-12-2012, 06:02   #18
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Without having all the facts at hand I'd take a stab at while the act was illegal (felon in possession of a firearm) there was no criminal intent. Without intent, except under very limited circumstances, there is no crime.

There are two elements to most crimes:the Actus reus (Latin) or guilty act, and the Mens Rea (Latin again), or guilty or evil intent.

Just sayin'...
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Old 10-12-2012, 07:28   #19
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1. it is not his vehicle
2. it was not his gun.
And it wasn't his pants either.
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Old 10-12-2012, 08:38   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtScott31 View Post
It won't make it to a grand jury. I think there's a lot missing from the story.
It surprises me what makes it to the Grand Jury. Generally when one refers to Grand Jury, one is talking in terms of a possible indictment that presents the possibility of a sentence in excess of one year. I have seen things go to the Grand Jury that have had no business there but having said that, in most cases, the Grand Jury will return "no true bill" and the charges are dropped. This does not mean that it cannot be brought back to the Grand Jury as double jepeordy is not yet in play here.

I agree that there is likely plenty missing from the story, but the fact remains that Mens Rea (a guilty mindset, or evil intent) has not been shown.

The laws against a felon possessing a firearm are federal, in any event. FWIW. States may have their own laws on same. In fact, some states actually have their own grand jury system within the state itself.

Never say never.... there is a real possibility this may go to the Grand Jury and likewise to court. Ultimately, it is the prosecutor (DA, etc.), the defense counsel AND the judge AND jury that will decide the outcome.
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